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Bud factor X, Bud Candy, Snowstorm ultra and many others secret ingredient exposed.

BubbaBear

Member
So the long time debate on whether salicylic acid is beneficial during flower is over. According to the Oregon Department of Agriculture salicylic acid was found in all of these products. Plus a bunch of other shady ingredients in several other products.

Advanced nutrients- Bud Candy Organic* was recently found to contain salicylic acid
Advanced nutrients- Bud Candy> contains salicylic acid
Advanced nutrients- Bud factor X> contains salicylic acid
Humboldt county's own- Snowstorm ultra> contains salicylic acid
Heavy 16- Fire, Fire> contains salicylic acid also contains idole-3-butyric acid.
Cutting Edge Solutions- Uncle John's Blend> contains salicylic acid
Mills- C4> contains salicylic acid
NPK- Stack> contains salicylic acid
Green Planets- Finish> contains salicylic acid
Vegamatrix- Boost> contains salicylic acid
Rambridge- Frost protection plus> contains salicylic acid
Vital Grow- Thunder Bloom> contains salicylic acid
Optic Foliar- AT-AK> contains salicylic acid
SM-90 contains salicylic acid.
Optic Foliar- Overgro> contains salicylic acid and 3-indoleacetic
acid.

Optic Foliar- Switch> contains ethephon.

NPK Industries- Mighty Wash and Ultimate Wash products contain pyrethrins
Green Planet Nutrients- Mega Wash contains pyrethrins.

And two of the biggest shockers on the list are
Uber nutrients- Pyyro K contains paclobutrazol and....

Azatrol contains permethrin, bifenthrin, cypermethrin, cyfluthrin, and chlorpyrifos! WTF !!! No wonder that shit works so good. Off label salicylic acid is one thing but a supposed organic pesticide containing a bunch of toxic chemicals is a completely different ballgame, those fuckers should be sued.

Update* 6 other companies that make neem oil were busted by Oregon department of agriculture containing a variety of pesticides in them, my guess is that its pesticides used to grow the neem trees that's ending up in the products . Fuck neem oil anyway theres much cleaner essential oils you can use, but yeah it's safe to assume most the neem oil out there is tainted


Click on the pesticide advisory tab to see all the tained products.

https://www.oregon.gov/oda/programs/pesticides/pages/cannabispesticides.aspx
 
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perismoke

Member
Now Bubba this is a thought provoking piece of info...I never considered salicylic acid to have pesticide properties
 

BubbaBear

Member
Yup I've known of its pesticidle properties but did not know legal states considered its use as being that of a banned pesticide. I wonder if they know of any negative side effects or if it's just a precaution for the unknown.

it's been debated on forums for years whether salylicic acid is beneficial during flower for increasing trichomes and resin. Many people were under the impression that it caused less trichomes and hermies. I guess that debate is over it seems to be the secret ingredient in most of the resin enhancers on the market. Thanks Oregon department of Agriculture, info like that its one of the few benefits of legalization.
 
wow all of them have salicylic acid! Are those products ban because they have pest deterring properties? Aloe vera and willow bark extract have salicylic acid and probably better than buying any of those products.
 

packerfan79

Active member
Veteran
Isn't salicylic acid just aspirin? Wikipedia says it serves as a plant hormone, and is commonly used in fertilization. Is this another way to screw the cannabis grower. Sure seems it is.
 

BubbaBear

Member
Salicylic acid is not the same thing as aspirin. The two medicines are related, and have similar-sounding chemical names. Aspirin is also known as acetylsalicylic acid, which is created by a chemical reaction between salicylic acid and acetic acid. You can use aspirin but it's not ideal especially during flower the smell of the aspirin seems to make it's way into the plant. Salicylic acid can easily be found in it's pure form for cheap.
 

Mengsk

Active member
If 'juicing' is a good thing it may continue to evolve/push the envelope. I did not know the 'secret' of how some hydro is so sugary, maybe this is part of it. For legalization, idk maybe Oregon Dept of Ag deemed something there not too safe for food. Does that have anything to do with the thc % idk.

AN has a new OIM line would be interesting to see how they compare. For me it is always a costly endeavor though I'm curious what would happen in a side by side or grid with a few different nutrient selections, all hydro or all soil, same lighting etc. I wouldn't say ironically, cannabis is what motivates its growing which innovates for the whole industry. Don't want to get carried off topic but same thing consumer choice organic IMO.
 

Iffy

Nil Illegitimus Carburundum
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I've used Willow-bark steep for years in this regard but Salicylic acid, Aloe Vera and Willow are also root stimulators. Does SA mimick an attack on the plant then, in the same way Chitosan does? I know Bud-X and a few others also used Chitosan to enhance trich production and I wonder if they work together to do this.

Regards,
Iffy :tiphat:
 

hyposomniac

Active member
Does anyone know more about the testing?
I'm curious if this is a comprehensive list of off-label ingredients, or just one they happened to test for.
 

BubbaBear

Member
@ Iffy, I believe salicylic acid gives you a immediate SAR response and chitosan takes a few days so they should work perfectly together for a time released SAR response.
 

TheeKavorka

New member
I talked with the Oregon Department of Agriculture. As some have said, Salicylic acid is considered a PGR (plant growth regulator) which often falls under pesticides. However, it's not banned in Oregon due to being "shady" or a "harmful" pesticide. The ban is due to improper labeling. All AN and these other companies have to do to get it back on the shelf is fix the labeling. This happens often in Oregon. Bocare had some issue and they added a sticker to fix the labeling problem. It's very common. The guy ODA went on to say it's an SAR that is supposed to trick the plant into creating more resin.
 

BubbaBear

Member
I wonder if this the end of companies being able to use off label proprietary ingredients? It's great that states are forcing companies to be more upfront about what they're putting in there products. It is very common for companies to have off label proprietary ingredients. Hopefully more states will continue to test for off label ingredients and make more companies be more upfront about what there putting in there products and make mystery ingredient bottles of snake oil a thing of the past. I'm glad to know theres no negative impact on having salicylic acid in your plants.
 

perismoke

Member
So Bubba...slightly off-topic..but..are all these new bacterial inoculants safe also?..eg 10Million Colony Forming Units of a "beneficial" to aid in MJ root uptake and health?..
 

BubbaBear

Member
Yes as far as I know they are safe, but some microbe products like Mammoth P has a Alfalfa extract in it which essentially means it has Triacontanol in it so the yield increase people see from using it may not be from the actual microbes in it.
 

beta

Active member
Veteran
Salicylic acid is not the same thing as aspirin. The two medicines are related, and have similar-sounding chemical names. Aspirin is also known as acetylsalicylic acid, which is created by a chemical reaction between salicylic acid and acetic acid. You can use aspirin but it's not ideal especially during flower the smell of the aspirin seems to make it's way into the plant. Salicylic acid can easily be found in it's pure form for cheap.


Is there a functional difference? I add 1 uncoated 325mg aspirin per gallon of water once every week or two, works great. Would I get better results w/ pure salicylic acid?
 

BongFu

Member
I talked with the Oregon Department of Agriculture. As some have said, Salicylic acid is considered a PGR (plant growth regulator) which often falls under pesticides. However, it's not banned in Oregon due to being "shady" or a "harmful" pesticide. The ban is due to improper labeling. All AN and these other companies have to do to get it back on the shelf is fix the labeling. This happens often in Oregon. Bocare had some issue and they added a sticker to fix the labeling problem. It's very common. The guy ODA went on to say it's an SAR that is supposed to trick the plant into creating more resin.


Yep, it's really a compliance issue that realistically comes from the government departments wanting money/tax and goes right up to the EPA where because salycilic acid induces SAR it has pesticide properties. Therefore, for it to be compliant in any product that product must be registered with the EPA at hideously prohibitive cost. I'd note some here are talking about triacontanol - there's a classic example of government extortion because any product with triacontanol in it also must be registered with the EPA even though triacontanol poses no toxicity issues but is classed as a PGR (plant growth regulator) because it increases the rate of photosynthesis in plants and is shown to alter their natural growth behaviours. So use triacontanol in a product and you're up for 50K or more in EPA registration costs or you add it and hope that compliance bodies don't find it in your product.
 

BubbaBear

Member
Is there a functional difference? I add 1 uncoated 325mg aspirin per gallon of water once every week or two, works great. Would I get better results w/ pure salicylic acid?

I dont believe theres much of a functional difference your still getting the salicylic acid just in a much less of a pure form with some acetic acid and whatever else is in the aspirin along for the ride. I've added aspirin root drench plenty of times with great results but aspirin can be a bit harsh as a foliar feed. Aloe vera also works great and has a lot of other beneficial compounds I'm just not sure of its exact salicylic acid content.
 

BubbaBear

Member
@ BongFu that's sad to hear. Our greedy government has made it near impossible to be a mom n pop grower with all the permit and compliance costs and based on what your saying It sounds like they've done the same thing to the nutrient industry. What happens if you try to sell a unregistered product on ebay or etsy? I assume the government would crush you with fines?
 

BongFu

Member
@ BongFu that's sad to hear. Our greedy government has made it near impossible to be a mom n pop grower with all the permit and compliance costs and based on what your saying It sounds like they've done the same thing to the nutrient industry. What happens if you try to sell a unregistered product on ebay or etsy? I assume the government would crush you with fines?




Its really the price of doing business legally in the US. The problem is that the med game is a niche industry (still) and there are lots of manufacturers competing for the dollars. As a result hiring lawyers to apply for EPA registration and then the registration cost itself is grossly exorbitant (in excess of 100K in many/most cases unless you are able to ride off the back of an existing registration) so manufacturers need to chance their luck and not register products. If they get busted they get fined a thousand or so so its a hell of a lot cheaper than registering with the EPA. So, for example, all the Rhizo type products contain synthetic auxins but these can be masked by kelp which has naturally occurring auxins in it. When they test for compliance lo and behold there's them auxins only did they come from the kelp or were they added? End result is the lab gets what's called a false positive where they may suspect but they can't prove.



Oh and on your point of aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid)and SA being about the same thing. Correct. Although aspirin is only 76.6% SA so the conversion factor is divide by 0.766 to establish SA in aspirin - although you also need the purity of the aspirin to get things dialed in.
 
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