--1kw-- 9 Cherry Pies in Canna Coco, GH 2 part on drippers....

1kw 4x4 section, blockbuster hood, 9 plants in 3 gal growbags on recirculating drip...Cherry Pie = (GDPxDurban)x(OG Kush)

Right now they are at week1 of flower....been getting 800ppm 5.8ph or so of GH 2 part plus CalMag and Diamond Nector......not sure of the exact ML for the micro and bloom i throw it in 2/3 ratio until i hit 800 ppm so...

any advice or pointers is appreciated....i ran coco 3 years ago had a decent run but had bad club genetics....i know the potential of these cherry pies its good stuff! my main concerns are should i just run drip to waste or is it ok to have it recirculating? the ppm when it comes back into the reservoir is around 600-700 i just refill with water and run it a few more cycles with lower strengh....or should i be running 800ppm every water? im seeing alittle burn on bottom leaves so not sure what to do here...and how much runoff should i be shooting for?

heres a few pics...




basically a 10x10x8 bedroom with 3 1kw bulbs and 2 600s, 10inch can filter exhaust, 10inch passive intake, aircooled hoods on the other side of the room but this coco tray is open hood...

this is what the cherry pie looks like grown in soil...same cut, hoping the coco and some good feeding will get fatter colas....also should i add anything in late flower like koolbloom? thinking of following REZ's recipe..

looking good man!

Yes4Prop215 said:

...Cherry Pie = (GDPxDurban)x(OG Kush)

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Sounds very tasty!

Honestly bro unless you can keep your recirculated mix clean and good to go, I would run DTW.. It's just so much less of a headache(for me atleast)..

The REZ recipe is awesome, you can't go wrong with the simplicity if the GH nutes.. I would most def hit them with some powdered Koolbloom late in flower!

Cherry Pie is some dank dank shit mi amigo! Just an FYI the OG that is in it is the Tahoe... It goes like Tahoe OG x GDP x Durban Poison

Hey dude. I have been working in coco for the last few years and here are some things that I do in my own room.

I always get more than 30% of what was added as runoff.
I use a drain to waste setup.
I water two to three times per day, with the occasional day with a single feeding.
I always measure my runoff EC.
I keep track of my runoff EC in a journal.
I run a 1.2ec during the first 20 days of flowering.
I run up to a 2.0ec on my heaviest feeders.
I never run pure water.
I use a K-Mag foliar spray during the first 40 days of flowering to decrease the risk of necrosis.


I will take 40% to 50% on a regular basis in runoff twice a day. I find it tough to get less runoff than this because the plants consume somewhere around 800 to 900ml between feedings, and I'll use about 1500ml to 2000ml for each planter. This process has completely removed the concern of buildup from my coco.

The more frequently that I water I find the happier the plants are. The caveat here is that the root system must be extraordinarily large and healthy to really take advantage of these frequent feedings. Recently I have been using General Organics BioWeed (a $12 per quart kelp extract) at about 2ml per gallon and have been getting fantastic results with my root systems. In the future I will probably use both BioWeed and BioRoots from GO because compared to other rooting supplements like Roots Excelurator, Rhizotonic, G-Rex, etc. I find that the inclusion of organic amendments - specifically those that feature organic chelates (like fulvic acid), cytokinins, auxins, or beneficial microbes to break down larger molecules into sizes the plant can absorb - can make a dramatic impact on the final product from a coco garden. The cost of these common items like humate teas and kelp extracts is more than acceptable because they cheap and effective when used sparingly.

My feeding process works by mixing a more than enough full strength solution and using that on the first day. I'll then water the solution down to 1/2 strength for use on the following day, and with the final watering I'll use up the rest of the solution regardless of how much runoff I'll get. By alternating full strength and low strength feedings I have been getting much better results then to feed, feed, feed. I believe that this is due to the coco's ability to retain specifically cations. During times of higher potassium use, as the Bloom increases in relation to the Micro, magnesium can become critically low in availability due to competition for uptake. This also works to avoid salinity issues later in flowering.

Keeping the EC low during the first 3 weeks of flowering has been a major improvement in my garden. It seems that many coco growers encounter problems during the transitional stage related to element imbalance, and because (IMO) a plant can handle a higher EC in peak Veg then it can during the transition. Stepping back down to a fairly balanced system and keeping the runoff EC under 1.4 (and the input never over 1.3) sets the plant up to enter flowering ready to kick ass. I think a lot of growers new to coco make the mistake of trying to push the plants too hard during the transitional stage and as a result spend the 3rd week of flowering flushing the media which stunts the onset of flowering. Better to error on the side of caution during this period of time and watch your runoff EC level closely.

Days 45 to 55, depending on strain, are the peak of flowering and when I find my plants can manage the highest ppm levels. I think an average feed level for a DTW during this time is 1.7ec to 1.8ec. Blue Mystic prefers 1.5 at the peak, Sensi Star likes it closer to 2.1, and you'll need to do some experimentation with your solution and your runoff to hit the proper EC in the media to really maximize the last few days of swelling.

Of all the issues that will arise what you need to watch for are Phosphorus deficiency and Magnesium deficiency. Phosphorus is not exceptionally available for uptake in coco, and it is not retained by the media like other elements. I find that specifically for this media that a slight increase in P levels, or higher P in general, is very useful during flowering. Magnesium is unfortunately the cation in lowest concentration (unless we are counting iron) and as a result it can become imbalanced easily. Using a little more Magnesium in the reservoir is a start, as just 10ppm more Mg could be a 20% increase of that element, but you don't want to over do it.

Using a Magnesium dominant foliar spray is a good idea if interveinal chlorisis starts to appear. Over time I have found that using only magnesium in the spray can actually cause temporary potassium issues (edge curl w/o burning). Using a good balance of both Potassium and Magnesium in the foliar spray has been the best approach in my own garden when dealing with this problem which can be difficult to avoid when running multiple strains or phenotypes all on the same "one size fits all" solution.

So that's my 2 cents on it. Watch the EC coming out and keep your Mg levels a up there a little and you can definitely keep the plants healthy. Extra Phosphorus and a "tortoise" approach to flowering (slow and steady wins the race) will help build big flowers. As always, everything starts with the roots. Dedicate your time and energy into keeping the roots happy and they'll do the rest of the work.

Good luck man. Coco is the bomb. Every garden seems a little different, the media is just so versatile, and I'm sure you'll find your way soon.

damn snowcrash good advice man...got a few Qs still if you dont mind..

so you like the feed heavy, then taper off next 2 instead of feed, feed, feed.....thats what i do in soil and kind of been doing it in coco too because stayin in comfort zone and dont want to burn my plants...the root mass is actually still pretty small probably only 1gallon out of the 3 gallons they were transplanted around 2 weeks ago...


yea i forgot to add that i also have rhino skin and sensizyme but i add it sparingly only once every 2 weeks is that right? and i do use roots excel but i only did one dose when i first got the plants a few weeks ago from a friend...


and yeah i recently hit some OG kush in soil with a nice P-Mag spray and they loved it..noticeable difference overnight, so il be doing more of that on the coco side too...



thanks for your advice man...didnt even realize i had to watch my EC levels...gotta double check those. i run tap water that is like 150ish out of tap wish 6.4 PH....

Yes4Prop215 said:

damn snowcrash good advice man...got a few Qs still if you dont mind..

so you like the feed heavy, then taper off next 2 instead of feed, feed, feed.....thats what i do in soil and kind of been doing it in coco too because stayin in comfort zone and dont want to burn my plants...the root mass is actually still pretty small probably only 1gallon out of the 3 gallons they were transplanted around 2 weeks ago...


yea i forgot to add that i also have rhino skin and sensizyme but i add it sparingly only once every 2 weeks is that right? and i do use roots excel but i only did one dose when i first got the plants a few weeks ago from a friend...


and yeah i recently hit some OG kush in soil with a nice P-Mag spray and they loved it..noticeable difference overnight, so il be doing more of that on the coco side too...



thanks for your advice man...didnt even realize i had to watch my EC levels...gotta double check those. i run tap water that is like 150ish out of tap wish 6.4 PH....

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Hey man! Hit em with that Rhino and Sensi every other feeding and the Roots Excel every feeding till like week 4 of flower.. the ladies will love you for it!!!

Yes4Prop215 said:

damn snowcrash good advice man...got a few Qs still if you dont mind..

so you like the feed heavy, then taper off next 2 instead of feed, feed, feed.....thats what i do in soil and kind of been doing it in coco too because stayin in comfort zone and dont want to burn my plants...the root mass is actually still pretty small probably only 1gallon out of the 3 gallons they were transplanted around 2 weeks ago...


yea i forgot to add that i also have rhino skin and sensizyme but i add it sparingly only once every 2 weeks is that right? and i do use roots excel but i only did one dose when i first got the plants a few weeks ago from a friend...


and yeah i recently hit some OG kush in soil with a nice P-Mag spray and they loved it..noticeable difference overnight, so il be doing more of that on the coco side too...



thanks for your advice man...didnt even realize i had to watch my EC levels...gotta double check those. i run tap water that is like 150ish out of tap wish 6.4 PH....

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I used to feed once per day, which worked just fine, and I would offset full strength, then half strength, then full strength. As the EC data is collected a pattern will emerge. This gives you some insight into how much residual is washing out, and if it is more or less then you should expect. There's no real golden number because of the versatility of the system but if you watch the relationship between in and out, and you watch the plants, over time you'll get a real good feel for what is actually in the coco for the plants to consume.

I had a hard time with root masses in pure coco mixes. Seemed that adding a little perlite to the mix made a pretty big difference for my own plants. I do have to admit there is a myriad of other factors to consider, but I don't think I'll do a 100% pure coco in more than a 1 gallon container. Above that and I think you get a better root system with something to cut the media with.

That BioWeed is for real though.

I use Silica on occassion in my own garden. Something to consider is that when you add potassium silicate to your solution it will cause a temporary precipitation of Calcium Sulfate. To avoid that issue it is best to dilute the silica supplement ahead of time, in a cup of water on the side. This reduces the chance of precipitation. You can also add the silica before using something like Epsom Salt, which could provide ample sulfate for bonding.

Cutting Edge Solutions, an organization I am becoming more fond of by the day, suggests applying the silicate via a foliar spray. The reason for this is that the silicon molecules are much too large for uptake by the root systems. A vast majority of what you are adding isn't even available to the plant, all it does is upset the equilibrium. When using a Potassium Silicate as a foliar spray it is very important to ensure you are using a quality surfactant, and to not use too much. Less is more. You will want to include occasional pure water (plus surfactant) sprays to remove residual and ensure the stomata remain clear.

Foliar feeding is definitely one of the more "artistic" aspects of growing in my opinion. Getting the right spray, hitting them at the right time and place, and ensuring the leaves can still breathe afterwards have to all come together at the right time. Fun stuff for certain!

I don't mess around with Enzyme products in coco, I used to, but only because Cannazym at 0-2-1 and 10ml per gallon contributes quite a bit of a ratio shift to the Canna system. It is vital to do this with their system more for the phosphorus than for the enzymes. Sensizym is a different product in a few ways, different enzymes, different elemental composition, so if you'd like to use it then I'd suggest just following the directions. Personally, I may actually increase use after the 6th week of flowering as there would be a greater amount of dead root material which could be broken down and used to feed the micro-flora and fauna.

I think of the things to really think about in a coco grow, specifically because the structure of the coco particles have a spongy sort of shape that is ideal for organics to survive in, is to inoculate the media with Mycorrhizae, Trichoderma, and beneficial bacteria. It has been my experience that supporting a kind of quasi-organic / hydroponic setup produces the largest and healthiest root systems in coco. Follow that and big buds are not far behind.

I have used Humboldt Nutrients MycoMaximum and Mayan Microzym before with moderate results. I found the best results in Roots Organics Coco mix (pre-treated with myco) in combination with the Kelp Extracts which provide hormones that interact with the root tips encouraging them to branch out. You gotta watch it with those kelp extracts though as they can sometimes contain a little too much sodium which is a cation your coco will soak up readily but only funks with the uptake of the (more) useful stuff.

I think you have the right approach trying to keep your levels reasonably low. 800ppm on a 0.7 conversion isn't too much food for some strains, but would be fine with an alternating 400ppm feeding for nearly anything. Don't let the media go dry at this point, but to help develop the root system while you still have the time I might suggest keeping your waterings/feedings as necessary rather than "on a set schedule."

Another something I forgot to mention is that I feed at lights on, and 5-6 hours later (a little before mid day). The mid-day runoff EC is always greater than the morning runoff. I believe this is because the plant is pulling in elements as it wakes up. Later in the day the media and the plant have had time to reach a kind of balance and the second feedings have a chance to wash out a little more of the residual in there. Keep an eye out for this.

Another something I should mention is that some nutrient systems will cause a change in the runoff depending on the strength of the solution. With Canna Coco, or CNS 17, you will see that a media which gives a 1.5ec runoff with a 1.0ec input will give more like 1.0ec with a 0.4ec input and a 2.0ec with a 1.5ec input. This gives a variable kind of scale, where elements are washing out at different rates, impacting the runoff level based on volume collected and what is present in the solution.

With CES Micro Bloom I find that if the runoff EC is 1.5 then it doesn't matter if I use 1.0ec, 0.4ec, or 1.8ec... the runoff will stick pretty close to that number. This has been new to me and makes interpreting the EC numbers from someone else's grow difficult to do. It is therefore best to develop your own data and try to guide your plants on how the nutrient system and the media and the possible organics all behave.

To me this media is both extremely easy to use and also knowledge intensive to grow effectively in. Some people get lucky, some people don't, and GH Micro Bloom is tried and tested so if you have definitely set yourself up for a low stress grow. Try to take my advice as simply "how I do it" and take from it what you will. You give me 2 years and I might be doing things very different...

Hell... My next grow is going to be Coco Hempy's (sorta) so I am already moving on in many ways from concepts I am using right now. Is it ironic when a grower grows themselves?

thanks for the info snow crash alot of reading to digest there....

so no enzymes in coco? got it....only been adding the humic acid "diamond necter"

also i was thinking about adding Great White its a nice potent blend....but il look out for the mycomaximum......


i jsut got a bunch of samples at the grow expo and one of them is a kelp extract...il make sure to dump that in..

i was just at cutting edge solutions booth and i think they gave me a foliar treatment..i dont know i got some kindof foliar treatment too cant remember..

what are your thoghts on "amended coco" some people are claiming good results with it....kinda makes sense to throw a little EWC or something in there for the roots to feed on when they arent being dripped..

i got 2 words and a symbol for ya,,, house & garden,,,whadeez, lvmcgoo, 1st and 2nd place in hte cup sirsmokesalot and i all use it , hell i think krunch does too,,and man i swear my buds always look so good well u saw what some of my buds look like,,,but anywho,,,cant wait to get my piece of pie lol,,,peace

Yes4Prop215 said:

thanks for the info snow crash alot of reading to digest there....

so no enzymes in coco? got it....only been adding the humic acid "diamond necter"

also i was thinking about adding Great White its a nice potent blend....but il look out for the mycomaximum......


i jsut got a bunch of samples at the grow expo and one of them is a kelp extract...il make sure to dump that in..

i was just at cutting edge solutions booth and i think they gave me a foliar treatmenwayt..i dont know i got some kindof foliar treatment too cant remember..

what are your thoghts on "amended coco" some people are claiming good results with it....kinda makes sense to throw a little EWC or something in there for the roots to feed on when they arent being dripped..

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I dunno about suggesting "no enzymes" but I am not using them now and I don't see any issues. There is one plant in my garden that has a funky smelling runoff, like broccoli and sulfur, and I was recently considering picking up some enzymes to see if that removed the smell. Plant looks healthy, but the scent isn't going away.

I've been using Fulvic Acid as a pH down because the molecules are smaller than in Humic Acid. I had used Organicare Humega for a while but never saw a return on that investment. The fulvic acid is definitely doing some good though. As a hydroponic media, fulvic acid is a better choice down the road I think. I've never used Diamond Nectar but have heard good things about it so if it isn't broke... you know...

I've heard good things about Great White. I was thinking about trying out Oregonism from Roots Organics sometime soon. I forgot to mention that I have also used ZHO from Botanicare with a good result also. I'm sure the local hydro store and plant nursery has some good stuff I don't know about too. I've never been someone to push any one brand as the end all be all.

Kelp is the shit, I'm loving the stuff. Take a look into combining both a cold extract with a chemical extract kelp. I think the popular two are Nitrozyme and Maxicrop. I've been trying to do my homework on kelp for a short time now and different kelps produce different stuff so knowing whether your extract is from the North Atlantic, or the Pacific, can even make an impact on the results. I've been using mostly Pacific Kelp extracts but I am interested to see if the other extracts have a similar impact on the plants.

I think the foliar treatment stuff is brand new. I wonder what it is. CES sent me free quarts of Plant Amp, Mag Amped, and Uncle John's Blend, as well as two free 100ml G-Rex testers and one 100ml T-Rex tester. I've been talking with them for some time now about their system. Honestly, I'm not impressed with the results at 45 days on the entire system although their Uncle John's Blend has really helped out the resin profile. Much better than Snow Storm Ultra.

I love the idea of amended coco. EWC is a definite yes. I have been using Roots Organics Coco mix because it contains: perlite, pumice, worm castings, bat guano, kelp meal, greensand, soluable kelp, leonardite, and probably a few other goodies. I know that there are other organic coco mixes, Botanicare and BioBizz, that other people have a lot of good results with. I also like to add in a little of these products called GrowStone to the mix to up the aeration even more.

The only issue I have had with these mixes is that they can be a touch N dominant. If the plants have been transplanted into a larger container just prior to flowering then as the coco mix breaks down quite a bit of Nitrogen becomes available for uptake. This has made it important in my own garden to cut WAY back on the Nitrogen in my nutrient solution after day 20 of 12/12, or about 30 days post transplanting. I have found Botanicare CNS 17 Ripe to be a fantastic finishing formula for these organic coco mixes because of its pk ratio and increased magnesium, and because it's like $50 for 2.5 gallons of the stuff. Recently I was looking around and I considered Overdrive from Advanced Nutrients. It should work well in weeks 6, 7, and 8 of bloom on a 9-10 week strain as well as CNS 17 Ripe, but the cost is a little intimidating (and AN is a Canadian company, I want to keep my money local).

I know that you're a baller outdoor grower Yes4Prop215, and that in the grand scheme of things I have much more to learn from you than you from me. I just hope that I do more to help than to confuse with all this. There are many other coco growers I encounter who claim to do basically the opposite of what I do and still get great results. I enjoy the opportunity to rant about coco, perhaps too much, and I don't want this stuff to seem like it is harder than it really is. There's just a lot of angles you can approach the media from and I know you're a little new to the stuff.

I'd think of it like learning how to surf when you can already wakeboard, snowboard, and skateboard. You already have your own style and once you pick up the basics you'll be able to apply that style to this new thing.

I fucking love growing...

haha im not a baller outdoor grower man just got a little plot..but i got big dreams lol...

thanks for all the advice...opened my eyes to a few things..


IDO- yeah man gonna grab the H and G line very soon....im only using GH because my friend gave me a few water bottles of it to test out in soil.....its cheap and simple but i dont mind spending the extra dollar for that good stuff, plus i already have top shooter and the aminos and dripclean so i already rock a bunch of their stuff.....im not a commercial grower just grow for quality and luckily i have a regular job so i can pay to experiment with different growing techniques...thats the funnest part honestly. growing is fuckin awesome lol so many different ways to attack it and i want my shit to be dialed like the pros....

yeah i was so glad when i popped the extra few dollars for H&G,,,yeah i first started with gh it always seemed my buds always tasted the same,,no matter what strain,,,since H&G i have noticed such a difference its amamzing,,,good luck in all ur endeavors,,,peace

Lookin' good Y4P215, nice set up. I personally like the the head formula more than H&G. canna produces some really tasty buds too.

idoreallytry said:

yeah i was so glad when i popped the extra few dollars for H&G,,,yeah i first started with gh it always seemed my buds always tasted the same,,no matter what strain,,,since H&G i have noticed such a difference its amamzing,,,good luck in all ur endeavors,,,peace

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I'll give you one guess who canna is referring to in their most recent letter.

The hydroponic market is one that is booming. The plain logic: new products and new companies rise or enter the market every day it seems. This gives growers around the globe the choice to find a company or product that fits him or her best. On the flip side, the hydroponic market is also one that is filled with confusion, misconception, rumors and unfortunately lies. In that regard we wish to create a little clearance about CANNA.


For a while now we notice there is some confusion about CANNA. The main reason seems to be that competitors claim to have a connection with CANNA. Or even try to make people believe that CANNA itself spreads the word to have a connection with other (Dutch) companies. This by NO means is true!


Some of the fairytales you might have heard include: owners of competitive companies have founded and developed CANNA or designed CANNA nutrients and then started their own company. They say CANNA does not have their own facilities and that they are the ones who bottle the CANNA products. CANNA is the same product as theirs or an older formula of their “better” product.



There’s even a story about CANNA just being a marketing department of one competitor and so on. These companies also try to make people believe they are big(ger) or even the leading scientists in Holland/Europe, after all, who will check whether that’s true? And on top of that, if these companies choose to pack their products in bottles similar to CANNA’s, we understand these lies all may sound very believable to people but again none of them are true.


Since these companies don’t officially claim such a thing in (published) media or documentation we will not mention the company names involved at this point. All of these false claims seem like a sales pitch and might not even be instructed by the companies’ upper management. Still, the word seems to be travelling and there will always be people believing nonsense without doubt.


Although we feel kind of flattered, it turned from a good laugh into a more serious, unfair and above all untruthful way of conducting business. As CANNA is a company strongly believing in honesty being the best policy and chooses that as their way of conducting business, with grower’s interests at heart we hate for them to fall victim to others and their untruthfulness. To enervate rumors we would like to tell a little bit more about our company and products.

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H&G has used underhanded sales tactics to push their products. Even lies about where the company comes from. Also, their two part nutrient profile makes no sense for coco. Using a two part in equal volumes is the same as using a 1-part. Might as well save yourself the hassle and use CNS 17 Coco/Soil Grow, Bloom, and Ripe.

Not something you see around, and I cannot figure out why! It is super cheap and very effective. Their calculator is dialed in too. They get my vote for sure. I am used H&G Shooting Powder right now, but I'm only a few days in and haven't made an assessment yet.

any of yall got experiance with HG topshooter? i got a bottle for free....wondering if i could use that on top of the GH 2 part instead of koolbloom....not sure what route to go for my late flower enhancers...i have some Atami Bloombastic and fox farms chaching....here latest pics..filling in nicely..fast growth already catching up to the soil run i got going next to it....im seeing some burn on a few fan leaves any ideas what this is??

I don't know what that is... I know what it isn't, which only leaves a few options. Some sort of sickness, phosphorus deficiency, or some obscure micro-nutrient deficiency.

Weird...

yea i only picked like 3 or 4 leaves total from the entire tray that looked like that...real random...i figure its nutrient burn because i upped the PPMs to like 1000 and they were at 600-800 before..

harvested some cherry pie from my soil tray...i love the neon green vs purple color contrast and the smell is skunky durban with a nice hint of granddaddy purple....

nice purple pie!

if i do some indoor this winter i am going to do 2k under soil and 2k under coco....

thanks for sharing!

stickKy