Lebanese...

Why isn't this landrace used much in breeding?

Seems the early trigger to flower would be benificial for most consumers with short growing seasons.

Does it take away too much to be useful?

MJPassion said:

Why isn't this landrace used much in breeding?

Click to expand...

Because mostly it was the afghan and not the lebanese, the strain that was introduced and widely used in the 70-80s as a breeding tool in the first generation of hybrids, to lower the flowering times of all the exotic (and mostly tropical) imported seeds that people started to grow at home in an attempt to get their own high-quality weed at home. The afghans and kushes (and their hybrids) were really pungent, fast, productive and much easier to grow indoors and in northern latitudes so it was a 100% win situation for most people.

Then it was the Skunk, Northern Lights and so on, the strains that become the next building blocks because by coincidence, they were introduced in Holland by the american breeders during the 80s. Most of the modern commercial hybrids are descendants from those first strains, because the dutch breeders were too lazy to start their own projects with brand new genes and then had already great true breeding hybrids to work with. Just like most modern breeders do as well. So that's why 90% of commercial hybrids nowadays smell, smoke, look and stone the same. They are indeed the same and just versions of mixes of already mixed strains since the 80s. Very few new genes were introduced in the scene, or it was only done by underground breeders who didn't like the commercial strains and avoided to use skunk or kush genes in their hybrids. That's also why the diversity is really poor and every time gets worse.

But yes, of course Lebanese, Pakistan, North Indian, Mexican or Nepalese landraces are great fast genetics to use as an afghan substitute to cut flowering times without affecting the quality of high too much. Breeding with a certain criteria it's also a must (quality and balance of high should be priority over the standard % THC, frostiness, bag appeal, production, fast flowering or strong pungent smell breeding goals). Don't misunderstand me, with proper breeding even the afghan hybrids could have a nice balanced high. I'm sure there have to be also great Skunk#1 plants with no comedown or any heavy feeling but still flowering in 8 weeks. It's just a matter of breeding properly and with enough plants instead of focusing just on creating new hybrids from the scratch with renowned genetics or elite S1s with the minimum possible effort. They are strong, fast and get you stoned, so who really cares? lol.

Another option would be simply working on the Colombians, Africans, Thais, Jamaicans and others enough to keep reasonable flowering times. Destroyer, Nepal Jam, Queen Mother, Mextiza and others come to mind with 100% tropical genes (or at least that's what they claim!) and around 10 weeks. And none of them were developed in mass scale breeding ops like the Skunk. So you don't really need to use any hashplants or Hindu Kush/Himalayan genetics to lower flowering times if you are willing to be consistent with your criteria to reach your goals.

If that would have happened in mass scale instead of the global NL/Afgan/Skunk phenomena, we could probably have changed the future and we would be getting high on brand new genes instead of getting stoned, couchlocked and hangover on homogeneous commercial kushes and skunk hybrids that don't really add anything new to the scene since the 80s.

But hey, it's up to us to change it!

Aside from what Mustafunk mentioned I would add that many of the hash landraces did not transition well into western drug strains... Neville (from The Seed Bank) has posted that he grew out 1000's of lebanese in the eighties/nineties in holland and it was all crap. Pretty similar stories have come up over the years with morrocan strains as well. I am sure there is good stuff lurking in some of the traditional hashplant pools just need to dig alot further than the afghani's.

I grew up having almost nothing available other than afghan, leb and maroc hash for at least a decade and afghani was unanimously preferred over the other two by a long shot by everyone I knew.

then there's the Lebanese Hashplant held by Reeferman...supreme stuff

bigbag said:

then there's the Lebanese Hashplant held by Reeferman...supreme stuff

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A friend of mine met with RM earlier this year and saw some pretty impressive pics from RM's lebanon trip. Pretty sure his Leb Hashplant predates his trip by quite a a few years though which always leaves me wondering if it was just another RM rename.

Legend and hash importer Terence McKenna was a big fan of Red Lebanese or Three Lion hash. Preferring it over Pakistani or indian. He said "that’s the cannabis product that everyone should smoke before they judge or form a strong opinion about what cannabis can do."

I wouldn't think smoking lebanese ganja would be a pleasant experience, but mixing huge fields of mixed chemotype into one singular oily product can make something special.

I've heard that the red lebanese name came from either the mature amber glands from the harvested plants or from the red sands that would inevitably get mixed in during the process.

But legendary hash smuggler Howard Marks said it was from the red henna. I'm guessing the henna was on the screens because they were being reused from some dying process?? It might be from this video:

[YOUTUBEIF]-KL5yyUmv_k[/YOUTUBEIF]

... i like when theyre smoking out of the peanut butter jar.

Are there still any legit sources out there for Leb seed?

I never tried any of the older imports except once or twice. And it was incredible, super clarity of mind and visionary kind of thought process.

Is it popularly thought that affy is the strongest of the hashplants?

-ph

PrimalHaze said:

Legend and hash importer Terence McKenna was a big fan of Red Lebanese or Three Lion hash. Preferring it over Pakistani or indian. He said "that’s the cannabis product that everyone should smoke before they judge or form a strong opinion about what cannabis can do."

I wouldn't think smoking lebanese ganja would be a pleasant experience, but mixing huge fields of mixed chemotype into one singular oily product can make something special.

I've heard that the red lebanese name came from either the mature amber glands from the harvested plants or from the red sands that would inevitably get mixed in during the process.

But legendary hash smuggler Howard Marks said it was from the red henna. I'm guessing the henna was on the screens because they were being reused from some dying process?? It might be from this video:

[YOUTUBEIF]-KL5yyUmv_k[/YOUTUBEIF]

... i like when theyre smoking out of the peanut butter jar.

Are there still any legit sources out there for Leb seed?

I never tried any of the older imports except once or twice. And it was incredible, super clarity of mind and visionary kind of thought process.

Is it popularly thought that affy is the strongest of the hashplants?

-ph

Click to expand...

That Terence Mckenna was a big fan of leb pretty is not surprising, the good stuff could be pretty spacey. Leb was actually my first taste of sativa type effects and still one of the stronger experiences I have had in my life. Henna was widely used as a binding agent with many hashes, no idea if this was the case with red leb.. only types I have ever had was blonde and in the past couple of years black. Real Seed Company have legit landrace leb's.

^ RSC also had a line they offered that produced famous red tint charas, so I think it is also possible without binders ?

that line was Shiberghan

I remember Terrence Mckenna saying he preferred Leb hash, that it was the cleanest product and Indian charas often contained binders and other drugs even datura.
Thats true but dont think its as widespread as he made out.

Seems all who smoked the red leb has fond memories of it and wishes it were still around.

Ive grown the Lebanese landrace from bluehemp seeds and it is very nice smoke, more fruity than most Afghans and just as strong imo.
But its all about phenotype of course you can get crappy pheno's with hashplant landraces.

Heres the Leb:



This short doc has very good footage of Leb feilds,
as you can see the soil is red, so its possible the resin takes on this color...

[YOUTUBEIF]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTM6siUyTzQ&spfreload=10[/YOUTUBEIF]

By the way, just checked and Esbe still sells Lebanese through Hybrids From Hell. Great deal I guess.

HFH LEB27 V2

€17.50

8 weeks flowering, harvest time from aug 15-sep 20, depending on your northern latiudes. Very good against mold. Picked in 2013. Classic HFH genetics. Originally sold in Pusherstreet in Christiania in the 80ties. Very good yields of middle indica potent buds. Good for hash production. Very good against mold and disease. Meant for cold and wet northern conditions up to 61 n. HFH seed packs always contains 13 seeds, carefully hand checked for best possible sprouting.

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Thanks all for the replies.

To be clear, I wasn't looking at the Leb for shortening flower time but rather as a possible tool for making other varieties trigger flowering sooner (trigger with less night hours).

As I understand, Lebs are done mid-end of sept. This would indicate that this variety triggers sooner, I think.
Correct me if I am wrong, please.

I have a few seeds labeled Lebanese Sativa. I don't know the original source but suspect it was blue hemp & my seed was made from those.

My grow season is typically interupted by a killing frost @ the end of Sept to mid Oct (Not the whole time just a day or three), then it's nice again until around end of Nov.

@Rinse...
The mother was very similar looking to your pic.


And she smoked with a fruity sweetness and resulted in a clear uplifting high type.
I didn't get enough of a sample to check her ceiling.

Yes! I was shocked to read that Datura was used. Have you heard Terence's account of taking datura?

http://youtu.be/Z28djGB75cM

http://vimeo.com/65574998

I wasn't able to see the video you posted, but those old hash videos on youtube are priceless.

Rinse said:

I remember Terrence Mckenna saying he preferred Leb hash, that it was the cleanest product and Indian charas often contained binders and other drugs even datura.
Thats true but dont think its as widespread as he made out.

Seems all who smoked the red leb has fond memories of it and wishes it were still around.

Ive grown the Lebanese landrace from bluehemp seeds and it is very nice smoke, more fruity than most Afghans and just as strong imo.
But its all about phenotype of course you can get crappy pheno's with hashplant landraces.

Heres the Leb:

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=49883&pictureid=1164901&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

This short doc has very good footage of Leb feilds,
as you can see the soil is red, so its possible the resin takes on this color...

[YOUTUBEIF]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTM6siUyTzQ&spfreload=10[/YOUTUBEIF]

Click to expand...

MJPassion said:

To be clear, I wasn't looking at the Leb for shortening flower time but rather as a possible tool for making other varieties trigger flowering sooner (trigger with less night hours).

Click to expand...

That's a valuable trait to be looking for. I wonder how direct or indirect the correlation between triggering time and duration of flower is?

I wish there were more outdoor strains available that smoke like the finest sativa ganja, but trigger flowering early in the summer. A thai that waits til september to start budding does me no good. Though it may not be possible to make a strain like that without compromising the high.

-ph

MJPassion said:

@Rinse...
The mother was very similar looking to your pic.

And she smoked with a fruity sweetness and resulted in a clear uplifting high type.
I didn't get enough of a sample to check her ceiling.

Click to expand...

Sounds like the one, you got some good breeding material there and they usually finish late sept in a cool climate,
Im picturing crossings to an exotic sativa now lol.

PrimalHaze said:

Yes! I was shocked to read that Datura was used. Have you heard Terence's account of taking datura?

http://youtu.be/Z28djGB75cM

http://vimeo.com/65574998

I wasn't able to see the video you posted, but those old hash videos on youtube are priceless.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the links will check them out, heres the link to the vid I posted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTM6siUyTzQ

Yeah Ive read elsewhere that some wild herbs are mixed with the charas but I got the impression it was for the Sadhu's personal headstash, not something were likely to see abroad.
If you're crazy enough to twist ya penis around a stick well ya crazy enough to mix datura into charas

great vid rinse, the plants shown there look quite impressive for this red dust they sit in

has nobody crossed leb x haze or leb x other tropical ?

Waldgeist said:

has nobody crossed leb x haze or leb x other tropical ?

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I dunno, but if everything goes as i want. I'm about about to cross really soonish some pollen of a super early "sinai" male on a lovely "red thai" which is pretty squat! And then the sinai is pretty similar to leb in so many aspect!

For having growing both strains, i would definitly say. Sinai is earlier, more fruity, but still totally in the head as high!

the real seed company - lebanese outdoors 2013
48° N germany








i use one seedpack and only found males.

G`day MJP

I have read that Greece was a Hash making region .
Government crack downs in Greece sent the Hash Makers to Lebanon to re establish .

So maybe Turkish or Central Asian strains are in the Lebanese make up ??

re Datura .
I don`t like seeing it referenced at all . Carlos Castaneda, and his book the Teachings of Don Juan have much to answer for ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .