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Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

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E

EasyGoing

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growingcrazy said:
Still trying to get my hands on both of those in seed form. How does the AOG deal with moisture?
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AOG is a beast for mold. Never molds, can go til mid Nov if you feel like it. Bug resistant as well. Powdery mildew resistance is only average. That is unusually the first thing to go wrong IME.


led05 said:
Hey bud, glad to see your still around and realizing that part of the key is keeping K @ 2-3% and P at least 2x's that, I remember folks laughing at me for these numbers back at beginning of this year.. I also said Ca 80% + then and Mg super low, who would have thunk.... ;) - Glad people are factoring in H now too, how could they not???

Still one of the best threads in here and always good info to gleam, thanks again Slo !
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Glad to see you back.

In the past I got tons of shit for what I was doing. Then everybody realized what high calcium can do, what effects it has on P and K needs. I think just about everybody in this thread has taken a 180 to their growing approach. Sure glad I did. We have started to realize the incredible fertilizer needs at these high Ca levels.

SlowN was the first, but you seems to agree right away. Slow brought up the M3 testing along with aa@8.2 which alone is HUGE. 1-2-1 ferts along with soil levels. V.A. Tiedjens book. It's been a crazy ride, best thread in cannabis history. You have no idea how many people I talk to seem to parrot this exact thread.
 
S

slownickel

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ICMag Donor
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Seems folks haven't caught on to the idea of the two plant cycles that we are making this plant go through and that they must be addressed to achieve full production and genetic expression.
 
led05

led05

Chasing The Present
slownickel said:
Seems folks haven't caught on to the idea of the two plant cycles that we are making this plant go through and that they must be addressed to achieve full production and genetic expression.
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relying on others clones or mommas who haven't been treated perfectly is overlooked IMO too, the deficiencies start immediately, maybe even earlier ;)...

I'm a seed guy personally and make sure to treat the plants they come from, both momma and dada well, I believe in Epigenetics, also
 
G

Guest

So again I come hat in hand scratching my head with a couple questions. They pertain to growing in containers in the 5 gallon range +-.

If the goal is to keep K at somewhat low levels all grow how or even should we add more K in later in flower when that's when the plant wants to use more, but not too much. Unless showing some signs of a def should we even add any more at all? Adding small amounts of P before flower and until last couple weeks makes sense but not a lot at once. Small amounts weekly I surmise. Plus top dress of some gypsum half way in veg and thru first half of flower if I understand.

I want to finish this grow I just started and pour all the soil and roots into a pile, and take a soil sample and send it out for a before and after comparison. This may help make sense of some of this better. Plus know what I need to add for the next round.
Does/has anyone done before and after test to compare what happened to the soil over the course of a grow?
 
P

prune

Active member
Veteran
K is easy, there's so many ways to add K, it's the P that's hard. You need to start with high P in the pot or you will never catch up. You need to plan your mix around that -Ph input.

(and fuck that dab sauce, my oil was always that way - naturally)
 
led05

led05

Chasing The Present
prune said:
K is easy, there's so many ways to add K, it's the P that's hard. You need to start with high P in the pot or you will never catch up. You need to plan your mix around that -Ph input.

(and fuck that dab sauce, my oil was always that way - naturally)
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Spot on w PH re P.....I like higher pH than most, I'm still out there on this though...


This is why K is hard, actually, BC of exactly what you say, its fkin everywhere, even where many nute details or analysis don't tell you... I like low K all grow personally knowing it always tries to creep or turns up high.

RE starting, you need to start right on all anions and cations but especially P, Ca, Mg, B, Mn and keep Fe and K lower than expected, S and Si help too, S for terps, Si for overall health ....

This goes for the momma & even Dads if you believe as I do, it starts even before you cut or pollinate
 
hyposomniac

hyposomniac

Active member
stewart169 said:
So again I come hat in hand scratching my head with a couple questions. They pertain to growing in containers in the 5 gallon range +-.

If the goal is to keep K at somewhat low levels all grow how or even should we add more K in later in flower when that's when the plant wants to use more, but not too much. Unless showing some signs of a def should we even add any more at all? Adding small amounts of P before flower and until last couple weeks makes sense but not a lot at once. Small amounts weekly I surmise. Plus top dress of some gypsum half way in veg and thru first half of flower if I understand.
Click to expand...
Here's a couple posts from this thread on the topic

slownickel said:
Not my crop, but the first couple of weeks of switch, I would push calcium. Then I would bring K up. I would also be pushing P at this time in general
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slownickel said:
PP,

Cannabis is a C3 plant (google it). That means it really is a weed.

Weeds like a solid 1:1 balance of nitrate:ammonia.

We know that ammonia can induce undetermined flowering sites into flowering sites.

We know that nitrates push Ca uptake vs ammonia. However, here pH can play a bad guy if your water has a lot of bicarbonates and over all alkalinity.

I would push nitrates up front, no flowering push at all, maximum Ca uptake, but at the same time I run a bit of ammonia. Say 2:1 nitrate:ammonia. If pH is an issue, maybe 1.2:1 To have less nitrate against the ammonia so as to have more acidity (ammonia is acid forming and a cation), nitrate is alkaline forming and is an anion.

When I want to start maturing up the plant, I take that ratio lower than 1:1 or even 0.8:1 That pushes more K uptake, slows down Ca uptake. At this point we begin flowering, push Ca and use aminos to maximize Ca uptake and protect the roots from any excess salts. A couple or three weeks into flowering, push the ratio to 0.6:1 nitrate:ammonia maybe even 0.7:1 this is a ratio that will have to be played with and experimented on different varieties for sure.

That is pretty much my strategy on C3 annuals. Should be about the same on cannabis.
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growingcrazy

growingcrazy

Well-known member
Anybody want to share some knowledge on how to improve upon this mix? Getting ready to plan a full run on fertigation only and still tossing around application rates and base mix numbers... Thinking about dialing in the micros and leaving Ca,Mg and P as is...

picture.php


Speaking of P, what weekly rate is everyone seeing best results at? With?
 
led05

led05

Chasing The Present
growingcrazy said:
Anybody want to share some knowledge on how to improve upon this mix? Getting ready to plan a full run on fertigation only and still tossing around application rates and base mix numbers... Thinking about dialing in the micros and leaving Ca,Mg and P as is...

View Image

Speaking of P, what weekly rate is everyone seeing best results at? With?
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What's up brother! U still looking at the local pepper business there?

Ca needs to go way up, mg way down, P up, B up, Mn up, Fe down

Easier said than done, mho, u what's your CEC again or did I miss it on test ? Just found it, I thought you were in sand but test says CEC 30, that's some peaty sand ;)
 
growingcrazy

growingcrazy

Well-known member
led05 said:
What's up brother! U still looking at the local pepper business there?

Ca needs to go way up, mg way down, P up, B up, Mn up, Fe down

Easier said than done, mho, u what's your CEC again or did I miss it on test ? Just found it, I thought you were in sand but test says CEC 30, that's some peaty sand ;)
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How are you? been awhile... Looks like I will be running some peppers under glass or plastic next year. Somebody has to do it...

This is an indoor mix, why the cec doesn't rep the area...lol

My last two tests from spectrum have come back with crazy low CEC Ca# on the M3. Why is that? Is the Al or Fe taking up to much space?

If I run the numbers with the m3 and AA I show Ca 77, Mg 18, K 2.5 Na 2, roughly. Or am I way off...

I have n problem amending this one..it is only 2 yards!

Get a hold of me if you have any pepper biz knowledge.. :biggrin:
 
L

Limeygreen

Well-known member
Veteran
I would say the P is too high already, higher than your potassium it will be difficult to get uptake of calcium, iron and manganese with those levels even if the calcium is brought up to sufficient levels. The sulfur is quite high as well, it would seem to need a ton of calcium such as calcitic lime to bring it up as with those sulfate levels you will be leaching out your calcium even more before touching your magnesium. I would be bumping up the boron, it will help the pathways for calcium to be uptaken as well, copper should be brought up as well, helps with plant immune system and flower processes.

Are you able to plant a crop before cannabis? I might suggest something that is a phosphorus hog to pull a bunch of the phosphorus out and magnesium while pushing the crap out of the calcium.
 
R

reppin2c

Active member
Veteran
growingcrazy said:
Anybody want to share some knowledge on how to improve upon this mix? Getting ready to plan a full run on fertigation only and still tossing around application rates and base mix numbers... Thinking about dialing in the micros and leaving Ca,Mg and P as is...

View Image

Speaking of P, what weekly rate is everyone seeing best results at? With?
Click to expand...

Put some plants in that soil and grow the shit out of it.
 
G

Guest

I have seen mention of being careful of where you source your Gypsum. I dont know where in the US the guys who need and buy it by the CF or yard get it reliably. I only WISH I needed that much. I found one place that sells the recylced drywall as well.
However I only need it by the pound.:moon:

As a FYI or whatever for us in the US who only need smaller amounts I was in my local lowes store looking to see what was left before fall to maybe find some deals and came across in the patio of a pallet of "gypsum"??
Called SoftCal Pellets made by Austinville Limestone in VA. $20 for 40# of granular which I almost bought. But I remembered reading some of this stuff comes from shady places. Went home and did a google of the product and mfg and came back to PDF of SDS. WTF is a gypsum product made from " Flue Gas Desulferization"??

http://avlime.com/main.html?src=/2352/8101.html

Found some cool Halloween stuff though at Lowes !
biggrin.gif

Love halloween! No gifts just having fun with watching kids trick or treating and having fun.


I dont know where US small use buyers source from but I have been looking for more and found some more soluble powder from klp_for_Less that comes out at about $1.3 a pound shipped for about 20#. This place I have at least a small amount of faith that they sell virgin mined stuff. I hope.
Sourcing quality amendments in the US can be hit or miss.

Back to your regular programming. Wish I had a nickle for every time I would love to have a dude name nickle on hand for just a couple hours of in home Q&A.
 
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