What's new
  • Please note members who been with us for more than 10 years have been upgraded to "Veteran" status and will receive exclusive benefits. If you wish to find out more about this or support IcMag and get same benefits, check this thread here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

Short Path Distillation

Pesticide contamination was recently shown by the Oregonian investigation to be a major issue, so not to be taken lightly, as we do concentrate those residues as well.

Tis true that it isn't caused by distillation but never the less one of the land mines we distillers have to contend with.

Getting it out is far more difficult, if even possible in all cases, than using material without pesticide residue as feed stock.

Please definitely put/keep this on your radar, due to the magnitude the problem was shown to be locally.

Yes continuous feed as opposed to processing a discreet batch at a time. Something for the big boys that don't care if the strains get mixed, or have so much of one strain that the point is moot.

Yeah, Eden didn't even design it as a molecular still, but an alcohol recovery still.

After playing with it at high vacuum levels, they discovered that it will also fractionate at least closely enough to separate the mono and sesquiterpenes from the diterpene cannabinoids, and the longer chain molecules like the chlorophyll, anthro cyanins, and plant waxes.

Fritz says it is successful enough that they may offer it in stainless, instead of glass.

Certainly have every intention of taking it seriously as far as pesticides go but agree that this sounds like a problem with the starting material needs to be addressed above all it this is the case. Particularly if it cannot be removed post extraction anyway.

As for your point about continuous feed this point the Myer is continuous feed by design but is till a batch process. The Pope can be continuous feed but is still run batch in production due to the product logging system in our state. Along that same vein though while fractioning terpenes from batch specific runs would be beneficial a true THC fraction should be homogenous in consistency on the return end and free of any terpenes and aromatics. So I am inferring that the discreet batches you are referring to would be in reference to a terpene fraction and therefore a collection of terpenes and not to the true clear fraction everyone is hoping to attain right now.

I know you have been working with a Kug, have you been successful in both of these fractions? I saw some pictures on the Skunk Pharmers instagram of it in action and was hoping for some analyticals on the pretty product that was featured as "clear".
 

Permacultuure

Member
Veteran
SB
Obviously we are not increasing the actual amount of pesticides, neither are we increasing the actual amount of cannabinoids. We are concentrating them, sometimes to the point where they finally show up on analytics.

Of course the heart of the problem is with the cultivation, I think that most distillates are contaminated bc people use such low quality low price oil. I'm not knocking distillation, I love it. I'm stating that most of these "clear" products are rich with pesticides and by no means safe medicine.
Most high quality oil, extracted properly from fresh clean material will not be the ideal candidate for distillation. I think everyone would be surprised if they had accurate pesticide analysis of their distillates, especially people based in Washington and California.

We have not logged enough data to purchase a scalable distillation setup, but the compounds of cannabis are largely uncharted territory in the big picture.

Reps rarely operate what they sell, and have little experience if any with cannabis. Onky a few have logged data about these compounds bp's under vac, which is step one.

Also there are commonly small,percentages of terps in distillates, such as b-caryophyllene
 

Daub Marley

Member
The problem with pesticides is that they are diverse. If they were all the same then I am confident that pesticides can be removed from the cannabinoids. We need quick and cheap testing methods for classes of pesticides. That way we can identify what type of contaminant it is and then set a price based on how hard they are to remove. Growers need to be held accountable for the safety of their product, and testing is the only way to do that. Until then I highly recommend getting a tumbler and making farmer grade hash and running that. The bulk plant material is sprayed with pesticides, so if you reduce that plant matter you reduce the amount of pesticides that get carried along.
BTW I am able to get discount pricing on kugelrohrs through Sigma Aldrich. If anyone is interested just p.m. me.
 

G.O. Joe

Active member
Veteran
The problem with pesticides is that they are diverse. If they were all the same then I am confident that pesticides can be removed from the cannabinoids.

They might be all the same, in being more attracted to carbon, silica, or alumina than THC, for starters - maybe on a post winterization filtrate.
 

Brot

Member
The problem with pesticides is that they are diverse. If they were all the same then I am confident that pesticides can be removed from the cannabinoids. We need quick and cheap testing methods for classes of pesticides. That way we can identify what type of contaminant it is and then set a price based on how hard they are to remove. Growers need to be held accountable for the safety of their product, and testing is the only way to do that. Until then I highly recommend getting a tumbler and making farmer grade hash and running that. The bulk plant material is sprayed with pesticides, so if you reduce that plant matter you reduce the amount of pesticides that get carried along.
BTW I am able to get discount pricing on kugelrohrs through Sigma Aldrich. If anyone is interested just p.m. me.

Hi, notice your comment about a discount. Here is the model im interested in. Z683477. Could you tell me you cost or a % discount.
Thanks
 

Brot

Member
Unit

Unit

Pic of unit from above.^^^^
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    16 KB · Views: 15

Brot

Member
Name

Name

Here is a pic of a unit i have seem here on IC. But no gollow up info. Can Anyone identify this unit? Or is this a dream someone created? I would think, decarbed product only.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    6.5 KB · Views: 16

Permacultuure

Member
Veteran
They might be all the same, in being more attracted to carbon, silica, or alumina than THC, for starters - maybe on a post winterization filtrate.

The lead chemist we've been working with for pesticide screening has been successfully separating the pesticides from the cannabinoids. Obviously this is on a micro scale, but he seems confident the separation is scalable. Hoping to have more info in the coming month
 

snake11

Member
Here is a pic of a unit i have seem here on IC. But no gollow up info. Can Anyone identify this unit? Or is this a dream someone created? I would think, decarbed product only.

That is a neos. It is a gravity microwave hydro distillation unit.
 

G.O. Joe

Active member
Veteran
Where's those clear smoke reports?

For a pro it shouldn't be a big deal to buy an expensive unit someone is willing to provide and resell it later if it doesn't work out. Maybe someone has tried one of those units and isn't saying? The business model of providing such a laboratory apparatus to extractors of controlled substances not being so proven, I'd get one before Christie eats all the other candidates.

Has anyone tried purifying THCA instead of THC? Both in succession? THCA has always been dismissed by the pros here - will it be mites that finally forces one of them to use acid-base isolation, after the thousands spent on distillation? Did they try it years ago and not like it? Been using it for years?

This is the place for contaminated buds. If you get the discount on them that you should. Is there a discount? If BHO is to be purified to this extent - which none of you have ever supported here, yes? - you're using the most contaminated cannabinoids you got, right?

Any pesticide that's been around for a while has published TLC detection methods, maybe they could be applied outside TLC. But the carrier products tested wouldn't include herbs resinous with controlled substances, and except for something like o-tolidine/KI, the visualizing agent might be hard to find. Who's going to develop a method and share it here?
 
SB
Obviously we are not increasing the actual amount of pesticides, neither are we increasing the actual amount of cannabinoids. We are concentrating them, sometimes to the point where they finally show up on analytics.

Of course the heart of the problem is with the cultivation, I think that most distillates are contaminated bc people use such low quality low price oil. I'm not knocking distillation, I love it. I'm stating that most of these "clear" products are rich with pesticides and by no means safe medicine.
Most high quality oil, extracted properly from fresh clean material will not be the ideal candidate for distillation. I think everyone would be surprised if they had accurate pesticide analysis of their distillates, especially people based in Washington and California.

We have not logged enough data to purchase a scalable distillation setup, but the compounds of cannabis are largely uncharted territory in the big picture.

Reps rarely operate what they sell, and have little experience if any with cannabis. Onky a few have logged data about these compounds bp's under vac, which is step one.

Also there are commonly small,percentages of terps in distillates, such as b-caryophyllene

I agree that you would concentrate any pesticides present and should therefore monitor the quality of product going into distillation. The rep we talked to was very knowledgable. They had quite a bit of experience with cannabis but obviously I have no idea what anyone else there knew about. Also I found that they tended to know what you needed to do (such an a good starting point for THC under vacuum) but rather wouldn't say the specifics due to certain paper work that some of our prior brethren had signed with them. As for the terps in the distillate that you are referencing, is this a phenomena that you personally have observed performing distillation yourself? What method are you using and do you attempt to take a fraction of the more volatile compounds prior to your distillation?


Joe I have wondered about the acid base extraction myself man. I have seen a few people with what they claim in pure THCA, looked like an fine white powder but for some reason I am under the impression that it was a CO2 product. I have never heard of a personal account of someone performing the acid base extraction and vaporizing the product. What is stopping you being that you are one of our chemistry folks?
 

Permacultuure

Member
Veteran
It's not a phenomenon, you'll find small amount in most distillate. We have found them in our own which is done with glassware and spd concepts. I've also seen it with the werc shops products, who are some of the most experienced in this tech. Some terps have bp's very close to thc so it's difficukt for us to fraction those off separately.

I imagine the reps hinted at a lot, but when direct answers are demanded they generally revert to the "I wish I could but this NDA......"

I am seeing a lot of thca isolates lately too. Regis had some, it was white powder and tested above 98. It was not very desirable as a dabable product but I think the potential is very exciting. I believe it was done without any crazy solvents too.

Joe im listening :) thca powder could be the next new addition to my smoothie, for those high doses.
 

G.O. Joe

Active member
Veteran
What is stopping you being that you are one of our chemistry folks?

No pot. When this was mostly a hash forum and I was new, a little THCA was made and hit as THC - it wasn't so bad and I said that and no one cares - even then it was all about terpenes. As if things couldn't be added to the purified cannabinoids as desired. If I did have pot, the only pesticide would be Gnatrol.

Since then, all grows have been for seed, and plenty of other excuses. To be totally ridiculously stupid, a nitrogen generator would make a complete LC/MS - in a state where I'll never legally use it.

Serious consideration was given to stashing barrels of kerosene in the ditches this year. GW might not say om to that but I wonder if that sort of thing is going on. It could all be mine, a ditchweed empire - cable TV I own this.
 

Brot

Member
So whats the story with the Neos? Has anyone used or priced one? One step process. No distilling or purging.
 
Top