Column packing 101: how tight (or loose)?

toohighmf · Feb 4, 2017

Been running the same material for a week, and every pull is significantly different in yield. I'm starting to wonder if it has something to do with my pack. A lot of conflicting info regarding packing density out there. Some say pack as much as possible, while some say not as tight but uniform. How tight are you packing?

MrBungle · Feb 4, 2017

I know if its too tight the butane won't completely saturate the material... I know folks say for better quality oil not to grind it, but in my experience the yield goes up with ground material and the quality doesn't change that much

toohighmf · Feb 4, 2017

Well, Squeeze me Macaroni MrBungle! Is the yield improving from all the chlorophyll or plant matter when grinding? My best yield was from larfy trim. It was also practically black... not sure what to think about grinding up material, but I may try it with my own stuff to see how I fare. Thanks

BigJohnny · Feb 4, 2017

MrBungle said:
I know if its too tight the butane won't completely saturate the material... I know folks say for better quality oil not to grind it, but in my experience the yield goes up with ground material and the quality doesn't change that much

I can vouch for this, I grind up all my material into a fine dust using a food processor, and I consistently see returns that are 2-3% higher, and in some cases have achieved upwards of an additional 7% return versus not grinding the same material.

Gray Wolf · Feb 5, 2017

For densest packing I remove water to below 10% so it is just frangible and run through a 10 mesh screen, before packing to 4.1 grams per cubic inch.

For bragging rights bud extracts, I lightly break up to about 1/2" and pack to about 3.8 grams per cubic inch.

That is about where I lean on the ram until it stops, but don't pound to pack further.

HWY36 · Feb 5, 2017

Gray Wolf said:
For densest packing I remove water to below 10% so it is just frangible and run through a 10 mesh screen, before packing to 4.1 grams per cubic inch.

For bragging rights bud extracts, I lightly break up to about 1/2" and pack to about 3.8 grams per cubic inch.

That is about where I lean on the ram until it stops, but don't pound to pack further.

If I'm calculating this right, that would be 2472g and 2291g respectively for a 4inch, 4 ft tall tube. If I only packed 4lb into a tube, would it make the final product brighter because of the solvent passing through quicker?

TerpChild · Feb 6, 2017

I have also found yield improves with a quick food processor grind, although i have never tried grinding it all into powder. A few short bursts of the ninja and its good, and then pack it just how GW said. I don't notice much color difference as long as i freeze the material and the solvent.

Gray Wolf · Feb 6, 2017

HWY36 said:
If I'm calculating this right, that would be 2472g and 2291g respectively for a 4inch, 4 ft tall tube. If I only packed 4lb into a tube, would it make the final product brighter because of the solvent passing through quicker?

4X4X.7854 four inch tube X48" long = 603 cubic inches

603 X 3.8 =2291 grams

It has to be packed evenly enough that it doesn't just find the easy way through.

Ostensibly the same amount of butane passing through less material, would extract less material, unless it was close to saturation.

Gray Wolf · Feb 6, 2017

TerpChild said:
I have also found yield improves with a quick food processor grind, although i have never tried grinding it all into powder. A few short bursts of the ninja and its good, and then pack it just how GW said. I don't notice much color difference as long as i freeze the material and the solvent.

Is yield substantially increasing or are you able to pack more in the tube with finer grinds?

TerpChild · Feb 7, 2017

I find i get 1-3% better yield, calculated by using the weight of material going into the tube each time and final product weight, when i do a rough ninja pulse chop (more accurate descriptive word for what is happening than "grind") on buds. Theres two blades on a column that slice and bat the buds around in the chamber. All the loose triches can be poured into the tube easily while packing, and the triches don't get abused like they do with a metal herb grinder.
Yes, the tubes pack more evenly which i feel is beneficial to the solvent picking up as much as possible as it flows down the tube. It also makes sense to me that more surface area allows more triches to be exposed to the solvent as it flows down through each micro-layer of material. Color is just a slight touch more amber than if i just do the 1/4" finger break up, but i honestly dont care about my shatter being bright piss yellow. Its easy to accomplish light colored shatter if it is requsted but i prefer the extracting experience and slight yield increase of the rough ninja chop. The amount of terps seems to be the same either way.

BigJohnny · Feb 7, 2017

I see the same 1-3% increase in returns for the same material. I always weigh out the exact same amount so when spraying bud that wasn't ground up I'll get like 20%, but if I grind that same bud I'll see anywhere from 21-23% returns using the same amount of material.

I don't necessarily get more in the tube but I don't have to pack as tightly to get 4lbs to fit in my tube.....ground up material takes up less volume.

tech1234 · Feb 7, 2017

Gray Wolf said:
For bragging rights bud extracts, I lightly break up to about 1/2" and pack to about 3.8 grams per cubic inch.

That is about where I lean on the ram until it stops, but don't pound to pack further.

Gray Wolf do you have any similar specs in relation to fresh frozen material?

TerpChild · Feb 8, 2017

Thanks for asking that tech, im curious to know what GW thinks about that too. I have had an experience where i packed an open tube too hard with fresh frozen material and had butane shooting out the injection port... Since then i have been a little bit paranoid about packing fresh frozen too tightly. It would be great to hear a pro opinion.

Gray Wolf · Feb 8, 2017

tech1234 said:
Gray Wolf do you have any similar specs in relation to fresh frozen material?

Sorry, I don't. I cut the stuff into about 1/2" chunks and pack it more lightly, before freezing the column. I push it down but don't lean on the ram. It plugs when packed as tightly as the dried material.

Dirt Bag · Jul 15, 2018

Hey GW, When packing ground material, how much do you put in between packings? Like an inch deep or so, then lean on it, another inch etc? Or is it more like 3 inches? I'm not going by volume because everyone has different diameter columns. Ours is 1.5"

Gray Wolf · Jul 16, 2018

Dirt Bag said:
Hey GW, When packing ground material, how much do you put in between packings? Like an inch deep or so, then lean on it, another inch etc? Or is it more like 3 inches? I'm not going by volume because everyone has different diameter columns. Ours is 1.5"

Probably about 4 to 6".

Dirt Bag · Jul 16, 2018

Just finished our first food processor ground run and though it appears to be a larger yield, it's much too dark for our liking. We will not be grinding anything ever again. Ew.

WaterFarmFan · Jul 16, 2018

Dirt Bag said:
Just finished our first food processor ground run and though it appears to be a larger yield, it's much too dark for our liking. We will not be grinding anything ever again. Ew.

Why do you speculate that was (so dark)? Moisture content?

Dirt Bag · Jul 17, 2018

WaterFarmFan said:
Why do you speculate that was (so dark)? Moisture content?

I assume it is plant matter, the result of grinding in a food processor. Though we didn't freeze the material, we did start with - 20° solvent.

Almost double yield, and after purge it's only slightly darker than usual. I assume the darkness I perceived was due to the quantity.
Net: 48/250g 19%+

Gray Wolf · Jul 17, 2018

Dirt Bag said:
I assume it is plant matter, the result of grinding in a food processor. Though we didn't freeze the material, we did start with - 20° solvent.

Almost double yield, and after purge it's only slightly darker than usual. I assume the darkness I perceived was due to the quantity.
Net: 48/250g 19%+

When you grind, you expose more plant cell contents to the solvent.

Column packing 101: how tight (or loose)?

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