Soils of the Dolomitic mountains in France

slownickel · Jul 8, 2016

Is anyone growing in these high calcium soils in France? Sorry, je ne parle pa francais....

Love to hear about experiences in those soils if anyone is willing to share....

baduy · Aug 7, 2016

slownickel said:
Is anyone growing in these high calcium soils in France? Sorry, je ne parle pa francais....

Love to hear about experiences in those soils if anyone is willing to share....

Hi
I live in such an area. Those soils are a pain in the ass to work,stones of various size everywhere so a shovel is of virtually no use, better use an iron bar. The calcareous clay under is super dense and needs to be broken and mixed a bit if not it's like concrete, unlike in northern parts f France you can't rely on winter frost to break down the clay structure so you have to do it yourself. Very thin humus layer too as vegetals here have thick leaves not good for fast composting and the lack of rain doesn't help. Another downside is that once dry the soil takes forever to accept to absorb new water,water makes a river if your soil is not perfectly flat making the small ocasionnal summer rains uneffective appart from the foliar watering,once dry it needs a real several hours long rain to moist again. There's also nutriment block issues with Mg which are the worse,some strains seem to be more sensible than others, this year I'm having a bad experience with a sweet tooth, and no matter what I do I'm basically watching her decay slowly, but it's not that common and sometimes it can be ok.
Mycorizal fungi is a must in those soils, I believe that's the type of soil in which they prove to be most helpful.
To sumarize in a garden nothing that cannot be overcomed with a bit of work and once you find it's balance it can suddenly turn into something surprizingly good but in guerilla it's really a pain in the ass and you can easily end up with a miserable harvest

slownickel · Aug 7, 2016

Baduy,

To grow in that soil with high carbonates, will most definitely be variety sensitive.

Do you have a soil analysis?

If not, if you pay the freight to the lab that I use, I would gladly pay for the analysis. I am very interested in those soils.

I imagine your water is full of bicarbonates. Do you have a water analysis?

ChaosCatalunya · Aug 7, 2016

I grew in shitty red Spanish clay OD for a few years, sinking large pots of Coco was the solution there in most places.

Fighting Nature is really a struggle

baduy · Aug 7, 2016

Sorry I don't have a soil analysis and I can't PM yet.
But I was thinking of a soil analysis for next year ( something I've been procrastinating the last years) if I do one be sure I will let you know the results.
By the way I'm confused are you interested specifically in the soil from the few dolomitic ranges or in the highly calcareous soil you generally see in South of France with the "garrigue" as the most common ecosystem?
I mean it's conceivable to grow in the garrigue,challenging and exhausting for little retribution in terms of quantity but you can grow some great pot, but the dolomitic mountains by themselves are nothing but rocks and dust.
It's been some time I wonder why the PH tolerance of strains is never mentioned by breeders,my bet is many have no idea cause they breed in a controled environment and most customers are more concerned about resistance against pests anyway. Would be interesting data though.

baduy · Aug 7, 2016

"Terra rossa" yeah that one is hard as stone in summer.

slownickel · Aug 7, 2016

I imagine that the soils there are saturated with calcium and magnesium. The high magnesium would surely be a real big problem to deal with. Rocks mixed with that clay and some medium, will little water, should be amazing

Are you in the same area where they grow the most amazing grapes in the world?

If you pay for the shipment to the lab that I use in the US, I will pay for the analysis.

baduy · Aug 7, 2016

what volume is a sample a lab needs?
About grapes yes, it's said that on this soil there are only three crops which don't even need you to thrive: figs,grapes and olives all the rest is a headache

slownickel · Aug 7, 2016

Lab

Lab

200 grams per sample.

go to spectrumanalytic on the internet and follow their instructions for shipment and tell them to bill it to michael kraidy they will contact me and i will post the results.

slownickel · Aug 7, 2016

What do you use for water?

corky1968 · Aug 7, 2016

I've read that raising the pH of soil is financially feasible to do as limestone is fairly cheap.

On the other hand, acidifying large amounts of pH basic soil like a huge field isn't.

baduy · Aug 7, 2016

This week I'll be going to one of my spots might be possible to take a picture of some interesting concretions in the river.I'll contact you when i'll have reached 50 messages but I don't want to flood.
I believe it could be of use to bring minerals in a soil mix if very careful with quantities but I find funny ( not in a sense like weird,no,just funny like it's funny) one could find desirable such a soil my lower back pays a hard tribute to

How I'd be happy if I could trade a bit of sunshine against some good Alaskan humus.

slownickel · Aug 7, 2016

corky1968 said:
I've read that raising the pH of soil is financially feasible to do as limestone is fairly cheap.

On the other hand, acidifying large amounts of pH basic soil like a huge field isn't.

Corky,

Most folks get way too preocupied with pH. I farm at a pH of 7.8 all day long and have yields that most folks can't even imagine along with quality second to none. Don't get too worried about pH.

baduy · Aug 7, 2016

acidifying large amounts of pH basic soil has been literally my Sisyphus boulder once, you can do this for the short term,adding generous amounts of humus,compost,heather earth,peat etc but it wont be stable you will have to do it over and over as the soil eats everything.
On the other hand a few handfulls of lime powder in a backpack is enough to correct a small field.

corky1968 · Aug 7, 2016

slownickel said:
Corky,

Most folks get way too preocupied with pH. I farm at a pH of 7.8 all day long and have yields that most folks can't even imagine along with quality second to none. Don't get too worried about pH.

Sounds like somebody is yelling at me again.

Anything under pH 8.0 is good.

I was hinting about some high pH soils that have a pH level of higher than 8.5.

Luckily, they aren't common.

Btw: These Dolomite mountains are very nice.

baduy · Aug 7, 2016

As you said. Now I stopped with wanting to correct that,instead I just try to grow plants who don't care too much about it,my biggest concern is resistance to water absorption once dry and getting rid of rocks,those ones are of no use even for mulching,never find a flat one. next year I still want to try some kind of sweet tooth/grapefruit but this time I'll grow them in big pots that's all.
I water with water from the river and you can be sure it's high in Ca,Mg. I don't use acid to correct PH would be a drop in the ocean anyway.
No such soil in the US?

slownickel · Aug 7, 2016

Sure, soils like this in California, Colorado, Arizona, places with very low rainfall.

Manivelle · Aug 8, 2016

hi
do you need some info for a large scale grow op ? or for a guerilla ?
please xplain your project and post pics . may be we could help you more

plantingplants · Mar 24, 2017

Anything come of this?

Soils of the Dolomitic mountains in France

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