Triacontanol

Hi all,

I want to use some Triacontanol to see how plants react on next run...

I've got 500ml of Triacontanol dissolved trough colloidal dispersion (to make it water-soluble) from a german phytolaboratory.

Is dissolved in the way that every 1ml of solution is equal to 0,5mg of pure Triacontanol.

I want to try to feed my plants with 0,5 ml/l of solution 2-3 times during the whole grow.

Do you have any idea/suggestion on choosing the right time to give the Tria to the plants?

I want to try 3 times, this way:

1° time in the middle of veg via foliar spray
2° Before switch to 12/12, with irrigation
3° in the middle of flowering, with irrigation

There is someone that has allready used Tria? With good results?

Unfortunately, i can't do a run with clones because i have not so much space and i have to grow from seed. But i will try it with RP OG Kush that is a strain that i know very well and that i have allready grown 6 times from s (so i can be almost sure that if there will be great impovements i will notice them).

Thanks and sorry for my bad English

meh, you are probably already using it in other products. They never list Tria in their hype for their products. I have some pure like you do but quit using it as I found another product with Tria in it that I like better. I use that Tria product everyday all the way through veg and stop the second week in bloom. I don't think your plan of using it just 3 times is the way to go. Smaller doses each day may be better. Go to this site and click on Tria, open the pdf and read about the correct dose to give plants and how to do it. Goodluck
http://www.mbferts.com/Triacontanol-Plant-Hormone-Trichome-Stimulant-Flower-Boost-173.htm

stoned40yrs said:

meh, you are probably already using it in other products. They never list Tria in their hype for their products. I have some pure like you do but quit using it as I found another product with Tria in it that I like better. I use that Tria product everyday all the way through veg and stop the second week in bloom. I don't think your plan of using it just 3 times is the way to go. Smaller doses each day may be better. Go to this site and click on Tria, open the pdf and read about the correct dose to give plants and how to do it. Goodluck
http://www.mbferts.com/Triacontanol-Plant-Hormone-Trichome-Stimulant-Flower-Boost-173.htm

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I'm pretty sure that my ferts don't contain tria.

I dont fert using a rich soil that keeps my plants happy and healty until the first week in bloom (i veg 4-5 weeks) and then i fert with flora nova bloom.

i only give 1-2 times bloombastic in late flowering before flush…

Always had very good results for my needs …

I'm only curious about how Tria will affect my yield

python_thrust said:

I'm pretty sure that my ferts don't contain tria.

I dont fert using a rich soil that keeps my plants happy and healty until the first week in bloom (i veg 4-5 weeks) and then i fert with flora nova bloom.

i only give 1-2 times bloombastic in late flowering before flush…

Always had very good results for my needs …

I'm only curious about how Tria will affect my yield

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I bet you any money bloombastic has Tria in it Did you go read that pdf? I wouldn't expect a large increase in yield no matter how you dose it. The only reason I use it is because I noticed an increase in bud sites. Try it, let us know how it goes. Search triacontanol on this forum and read the threads on it.

stoned40yrs said:

I bet you any money bloombastic has Tria in it

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I'll take that bet.

Bobblehead uses TRIA in his veg foliar sprays. He talks about using calcium chloride as a helper/synergist to make TRIA available. Ph to 7. I think you also need micronutrients as well. It's all chemistry. Bloombastic has PGRs. I like Greenfuse Bloom Stimulator a fermented plant extract which captures all these plant growth regulators responsible for bloom initiation. I've never heard of a water soluble TRIA. Most have to use a solvent. Bobble uses acetone. If you want something naturally derived, get some alfalfa seeds and make a SST super sprouted tea. You can also put it in compost teas too. Microbes will process it into plant available hormones.

The premise of this thread may not apply to you because of your formula, but there are some dosing recommendations..
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=276451

Sylvester1 said:

I'll take that bet.

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Wow it's Mr Triacontanol himself I'll bet your computer beeps every time someone mentions triacontanol on the internet. Where are the graphs showing the additives with Tria?

Sylvester1 said:

I'll take that bet.

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A UV-vis HPLC chromatogram? Seriously?
At which concentration is the standard and what's the detection limit of triacontanol?
Besides, there's less stuff in the sample than impurities in the standard... sure you got the concentrations right? Or did you try yourself with an extraction technique?
BTW, which exact method did you use?

stoned40yrs said:

... Go to this site and click on Tria, open the pdf and read about the correct dose to give plants and how to do it. Goodluck
http://www.mbferts.com/Triacontanol-Plant-Hormone-Trichome-Stimulant-Flower-Boost-173.htm

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MB is probably not the best site to cite... his manual for a tria solution supports my claim too.

Anyway, scientific data implies that repeated triacontanol application has no advantage over a few application (some studies even say a single one). As it seems, treatment early in life is beneficial. To my knowledge, there is no reliable data available on resin production or the like (which doesn't mean it doesn't or does work). Got to go, spaghetti are ready .

I believe it is better to use on a consistent basis. But if you want to do a test, let us know!

I use Growmore's Jumpstart. Really good stuff for a decent price.

Only Ornamental said:

A UV-vis HPLC chromatogram? Seriously?
At which concentration is the standard and what's the detection limit of triacontanol?
Besides, there's less stuff in the sample than impurities in the standard... sure you got the concentrations right? Or did you try yourself with an extraction technique?
BTW, which exact method did you use?


MB is probably not the best site to cite... his manual for a tria solution supports my claim too.

Anyway, scientific data implies that repeated triacontanol application has no advantage over a few application (some studies even say a single one). As it seems, treatment early in life is beneficial. To my knowledge, there is no reliable data available on resin production or the like (which doesn't mean it doesn't or does work). Got to go, spaghetti are ready .

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Yes you are right, MBferts is whack. Hopefully you and Sylvester1 can give us some more believable information on tria

python_thrust said:

I'm pretty sure that my ferts don't contain tria.



I'm only curious about how Tria will affect my yield

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Not shit compared to everything else that matters (lights, strain, ventilation, water and nutes).

If you were interested in the tria effect, then u'd have a lab setup with a control group testing the dosages of it in incremental proportions on the same strain.

Brewing alfalfa tea that wreaks to high hell after a couple days full tria.

You don't need anything but the necessary macro and micro for a huge , healthy plant.

Only Ornamental said:

A UV-vis HPLC chromatogram? Seriously?

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Gas chromatography, not liquid. Much better for policosanols.

Only Ornamental said:

At which concentration is the standard and what's the detection limit of triacontanol?

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Detection limits to ppb levels.

Only Ornamental said:

BTW, which exact method did you use?

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Method developed in-house, verified with blanks and spikes. Consulted a few papers in the published literature on policosanols. No EPA method, no FDA laboratory method, no NEMI method, no ASTM, no ECM. If there's a standard method for policosanol analyses, I'd be interested. Otherwise, we used Yao's 2012 paper, the paper by Méndez (2008), Wang (2007), probably a couple of others I can't think of right now.

Which methodology do you use in your analytical lab? What's your detection limit?

i also want to use this in early veg but cant find any thing with it other then alfalfa meal tea..is it true that superthrive has this in it? i have some superthrive left over from last year if it does i will use it

Sylvester1 said:

Gas chromatography, not liquid. Much better for policosanols.

Detection limits to ppb levels.

Method developed in-house, verified with blanks and spikes. Consulted a few papers in the published literature on policosanols. No EPA method, no FDA laboratory method, no NEMI method, no ASTM, no ECM. If there's a standard method for policosanol analyses, I'd be interested. Otherwise, we used Yao's 2012 paper, the paper by Méndez (2008), Wang (2007), probably a couple of others I can't think of right now.

Which methodology do you use in your analytical lab? What's your detection limit?

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Thanks!
Without an Y-coordinate, it's sometimes hard to guess what kind of instrument has been used (especially if one uses a multi-purpose program for LC, GC, MS etc. such as Chromeleon -> complete crap if you ask me!). I fully agree that LC isn't the best method and that's why I'm asking what it is .
I have no idea who you are or what you do; for what it's worth, you could be an undergrade student who uses the chromatography practical to inject his nutrients . Quite obviously, GC usually has a much lower detection limit (though it's not the LC of GC that has the limit but the detector... just simplifying here) and it gets harder to miss triacontanol in the injected 'soup'. I'm just thorough cause I've seen to much stupid stuff not only on the internet and that's also why I asked for the method (and not that I would want to use it or whatever). If you look at it from my perspective, the second chromatogram could as well be slightly dirty water. And trust me, I've seen students do such things in the full believe they were doing it right .

I don't know why you think I have my own lab but the idea of having one is pretty cool .



Regarding alfalfa: It's not the only plant containing triacontanol; other legumes do so too. The actual amount is very low because tria is only one of many constituents of their epicuticular wax (a fine waxy layer on the leave surface). Being barely soluble and embedded in a hydrocarbon-rich layer doesn't exactly help extracting it with water. Fortunately, alfalfa also contains saponins, they may help bringing triacontanol into solution. And there's a lot of other goodies in there. Hard to say what exactly promotes growth when using alfalfa meal...
Besides, triacontanol isn't the only polycosanol in alfalfa. At least in other related species, octacosanol is fare more abundant in epicuticular wax (more to that a few phrases later).

Bees wax and certain other waxes contain exceptionally high amounts of triacontanol. Unfortunately, there are two things hampering it's direct use:
- Tria is bound as fatty acid ester. A chemical hydrolysis is needed.
- Bees wax also contains octacosanol.

Though bees wax contains octacosanol at lower levels than triacontanol, the former acts as antagonist and reduces the activity of triacontanol and many other polycosanols (which are less active than tria). If memory serves me right, we had that already in Shaggy's tria thread.

Which brings me to a very important point regarding triacontanol:
Only high purity tria has a considerable growth promoting effect. Mixtures containing octacosanol have been found to be a lot less active and judging from my gut feeling (yup, no science here) may require frequent applications to obtain a noticeable difference. This also rises the question if it really is triacontanol in alfalfa meal that does the trick or if it wasn't just a lucky coincidence when they first isolated it with bio-guided fractionation. I've done my share of activity-guided fractionation and with minor constituents there's no telling how it turns out. The overall effect of a complex mixture such as plant extracts is often not reflected by the pure isolated constituents (not only because just some have been isolated). What's often termed matrix effect or just taken for what it is (a non-understood common phenomenon which regularly messes with plans to fractionate plant extracts and isolate active constituents) is re-branded by others and now bears fancy names such as 'entourage effect'...

Kygiacomo!!! said:

i also want to use this in early veg but cant find any thing with it other then alfalfa meal tea..is it true that superthrive has this in it? i have some superthrive left over from last year if it does i will use it

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There's no evidence it's in superjive. The only products I've seen list it are MBferts Vitamin&Hormone booster and Heavy 16s Fire. A couple more products that probably have it are Canna Boost and Jump Start.
Heavy 16 Fire:
Core Ingredients In Achieving Fire's Performance

Phosphite
3 other forms of available phosphorus
3 forms of available Potassium
High rates of Phosphorous and Potassium to ensure a significant, high quality harvest
2 types of cold processed kelp: Ascophylum Nodosum and Laminaria Japonica
2 forms of Bio - Clay (with exotic minerals)
Triacontanol (Naturally derived)
Handful of other proprietary plant extracts and organic acids.

Consider Aspirin ...its cheaper and does more!

vostok said:

Consider Aspirin ...its cheaper and does more!

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Maybe it does more, maybe... but unfortunately often not what you want unless you need to induce systemic acquired resistance against viral and biotrophic pathogens. If you want to promote growth or increase trichome production, you shouldn't use salicylic acid derivatives but go for triacontanol or ISR inducers such as jasmonic acid, respectively.

Only Ornamental said:

Maybe it does more, maybe... but unfortunately often not what you want unless you need to induce systemic acquired resistance against viral and biotrophic pathogens. If you want to promote growth or increase trichome production, you shouldn't use salicylic acid derivatives but go for triacontanol or ISR inducers such as jasmonic acid, respectively.

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Hey OO, does jasmonic acid have the same effect on plants as chitosan?

BubbaBear said:

Hey OO, does jasmonic acid have the same effect on plants as chitosan?

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Similar but not exactly the same. The jasmonate pathway is the main signalling pathway of chitosan but not the only one.
Both, JA and chitosan have their advantages.