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Making female seeds from autos grown from female seeds

biggreg

Member
Want to know if there is a difference in the making of female seeds from plants grown from female seeds vs making of female seeds from females grown from regular seed
 

Koondense

Well-known member
Veteran
Less genetic variation or bottlenecking.
Can be avoided with outcrossing a line or just regular hybridizing with another different strain.
Also depends how nany plants you use as parents.
Selfing is worst in my opinion, but more parents equals more phenos usually.
So i guess using two not too different inbred lines(true parents) would result in nice f1 af seeds. But finding a true breeding af fem on nowdays market is pretty impossible i think.
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
But finding a true breeding af fem on nowdays market is pretty impossible i think.

Yep.
 

Slim Pickens

Well-known member
Veteran
Please excuse my ignorance,but what other option is there for replicating a variety that was bought as a Fem'd auto?

Suppose for instance...Wild Thai Ryder.If a person really liked that variety,how would you go about producing more seed if you only have female seed? I kind of thought of using sts or colloidal silver.I realize there will be some variation,but what other options are there?

Thx.
 

Jd421

Member
Please excuse my ignorance,but what other option is there for replicating a variety that was bought as a Fem'd auto?

Suppose for instance...Wild Thai Ryder.If a person really liked that variety,how would you go about producing more seed if you only have female seed? I kind of thought of using sts or colloidal silver.I realize there will be some variation,but what other options are there?

Thx.

Autos don't clone. Tissue culture is out of the question too.

Only way is seeds. Weather from a M/F auto stock or F/F seed stock. Of course with F/F seed stock you have to reverse one of the females.

Best advance is to use close phenotypes. Weed plants are like humans and animals.... You will always have some genetic variation.
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
It's quite difficult to clone- we've tried it with minimal success and clones did not respond well.
 

Slim Pickens

Well-known member
Veteran
I wouldn't be inclined to try cloning,as it has proven already to be a no go.I have read that clones can be taken,but they end up being the same age and in the same development phase as the mother.
Same thing with tissue culture.By the time I could figure out how to do that,I would be in the ground.:)

The way I see it is,if someone wants to reproduce the genetics,and all he has is fem's to work with,then a reversal is going to probably produce genetics that more closely replicates that variety than using an unrelated variety.Am I right?

I also realize that continued actions like this will make the genetics more likely to be compromised.

Comments?
 
But finding a true breeding af fem on nowdays market is pretty impossible i think.

Yep.
By saying they aren't true breeding do you mean non-auto traits like growth structure, potency, terpene content, etc? Or is it possible for full autos to produce non-auto offspring since it's a recessive trait?
0ⁿ6
 

Superauto

Member
By saying they aren't true breeding do you mean non-auto traits like growth structure, potency, terpene content, etc? Or is it possible for full autos to produce non-auto offspring since it's a recessive trait?
0ⁿ6
Auto x auto will never produce anything but autos, so that is an easy one in this case
When they talk about true breeding I guess it's about F5, F6 or even higher so that crossing seeds form the same batch will give more or less the same offspring as their parents

On the other hand, F1 which are uniform seeds will not give the same uniform offspring as F2 will have the most diversity seeds(any possible combination from the gene pool might show up), from F3 and up the seeds will become more and more uniform
 

Jd421

Member
By saying they aren't true breeding do you mean non-auto traits like growth structure, potency, terpene content, etc? Or is it possible for full autos to produce non-auto offspring since it's a recessive trait?
0ⁿ6

What you mentioned plus the fact it's hard to find M/F seeds. With M/F seeds there is more genetic diversity. Compare to F/F-- fem seeds.
But Auto flowers a stable recessive trait. You have to breed/back cross to bring on the stability of the Auto gene. 2 autos bred together will be full auto. Never a Photoperiod. Where as if you breed a Auto with a Photoperiod those seeds will have the auto gene in them but the stability of the Auto gene is lost. So high a % of those seeds will grow like a typical weed plant-- it will need a light cycle to initiate flowering.
 

Klompen

Active member
Assuming this year's project works out well, I might be able to buy some new seeds later in the year. We'll see. Life is very in flux right now. Meanwhile I have a very tiny number of fem'd autos and would like to make some seeds for next year's guerilla project. I'm really trying to get guidance on how to self them. Also, I guess my big question about selfing them is: What is the worst that can happen? Will it be a pale shadow of its parent or what? What about reversing a couple branches and seeding one of my autos with pollen from another? I want seeds I can risk at my sites, and frankly I can't afford to pay breeder prices when I'll likely only get 10 finished plants if I put out 100(between rippers, deer, farmers spraying herbicide, and drought years this area can be kind of brutal). Last year I put out about 200 seeds and got 11 finished plants(the worst and tiniest ones too). I don't need the genetics to be amazing for those disposable batches; only for those I want to maintain as source plants for more seeds. For my quality indoor stuff I will obtain beans from somewhere when I have an address I feel safe using, but for now this should help keep the show going...
 

iTarzan

Well-known member
Buy some auto pollen from Mr. Strain Lee. I just bought auto fem pollen to use on my autos flowering now.

My auto Samsquanch OG are at 42 days flowering. They go 70-75 days. When should I pollinate them?

FOUND MY ANSWER WITH MORE RESEARCH.

I should pollinate now or very soon.
 
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pjlive

Active member
Just tossing this in, I'm def no auto expert: so far working with pollen and seeds seem to be the way for me to go. I've given up on any attempts at breeding out autos any way other than from pollen or seed because I'm convinced no matter what I'm not going to achieve a uniformed auto chemovar. Rather, I'm focused on breeding autos to be inbred and "stabilized" as much as possible through that long-term process once I've managed to find the plants that suit my specific needs to a T.

Also, with some of the more "wild" Ruderalis plants, it's not too difficult to separate out male and female seeds by carefully inspecting the seed and its liberation point from its bract. It's not 100%, but once you've got the hang of it, it's damn close.

Only a thought, though. I'm definitely only a few years into using Ruderalis genetics and am slow going on the learning curve. But I am taking my time and trying my best to do it right.

Sometimes it astonishes me just how much more sensitive some of the Ruderalis varieties are compared to pure Sativa, Indica, or Skunks.

 
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