Revival of the Ultimate Sativa GROW Thread

Pimpslapped said:

I found the reference I mentioned...

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That kinda blows my mind.If pollen is spread so readily,it would be almost impossible for a farmer to completely isolate his crop if he wants to retain seed for the next crop.So,could I be right when I think that the Columbian Gold and Panama Red that I smoked as a young lad could be different somehow?I haven't seen it in years.The Red is still being grown a few miles from here but I'm not sure it is exactly the same as it was 29 years ago when I first smoked it.I also wonder why people are so keen to have hemp farming legalized if the stray pollen could ruin their crops from miles away.Are hemp males culled or harvested before flower as the female is?
Peace

...take it to the limit?
colombian,extremely rootbounded.Went yellowish so I had to transplant.I put it in bigger pot,not much really

That makes a lot of sense oblidio,thanks.

Hey Raco,you really trim the heck outa the roots on those Moms,huh.Are the leaf shape of those plants indicative of Columbians only?I get plants with leaves like that occasionally but they go so long under my 150 that I've never actually finished one.They also take over my little space like kudzu,Lol.
Peace

from what I understand with pollen its killed with water. or high humidity for a few days. so the only real places that have those problems would probably be the spain morocco africa area.

in fact thats what I do to keep pollen at bay. when I pollenate I isolate the pollenated plant for 3-4 days then I spray it like hell with water and put it in with the rest of the plants. the calyxs that are pollenated are already pollenated and the other pollen dies. I never had TOO much of a problem with accidental seeds.

I know here I've had several full males bust outdoors within sight of females and never got pollenated enough to remember. there might've been one or two but I really don't remember. its not that humid in cali, but its probably humid enough it doesn't cause a big problem. especially in places like colombia or south america. maybe drier parts of mexico. but spain is so close to morocco and africa.

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Hey Motaco, Where does your signature come from?
It reminds me of Paramahansa Yogananda.

Hardhat- On the three types of conformities: I didn't mean to imply that skunk was bred south of the border. I just meant to state that the hybrid genetics they received had a great deal of 'skunk' in them. There've been a lot of stories floating around about Mexicans buying bulk seed in Amsterdam, not to mention their access to California.

More and more, it's all becoming the same three phenotypes that all smells the same. I'm not worried about the hybrid pollen spreading accidently as much as I believe that demand will force all commercial growers to switch.

Only the mom and pops will have heirlooms, and VERY few have internet access.

ebi

As far as I know I wrote that. But in the random cliff notes and fragments of books I read it could be regurgitated broken memory. I don't know.

I just meant everything is known now. There is no mystery left in the world. The edges of the map are filled in and you can get Mc Donalds practically anywhere on earth if you know what I mean. But though that is kinda depressing and sucks it also means everything is closer and accessible. Just using the times for yourself. It's easy to become another drone with alot of personal beliefs but whose life amounts to nothing.

about the mexican schwag. I haven't grown enough of it recently to say so but I still see alot of variance when I see people growing in on here, and when I buy straight mexi import.

But there definitely are several very common reoccuring strains though. thats been true since I was growing them in the mid 90's and as far as I know was always the case.

But it depends on who you know though. like always. like if you're in a small town the main guys that sell brick there might buy one large shipment of only a couple strains and sell them throughout the year. its cheapest that way. and if you were just buying it you'd just be thinking mexi brick is very similiar nowadays.

but here in new orleans its so close to texas and mexico we see alot of different types of brick. If you go to different neighborhoods with different dealers it is almost always different stuff every week or two. Most of the time I thought it was similiar stuff it turned out to be the exact same stuff. from one guy with the same shit.

I never buy it too much anymore its such a PITA. I never buy more than an ounce and an ounce of schwag doesn't last smoking more than a week or two. And since its not in my neighborhood anymore I gotta drive so I hate doing it.

How long will this take to finish?





I'm guessing....3-5 weeks, perhaps?

@ vol. its really hard to guess like that.

@obl yeah they look good. I'm really surprised how much the satori and thai tanic stretched. I didn't think they'd get that big.

but don't worry you're right on schedule. when you flower from seed those first 2-3 weeks are flowering but they are still kinda veg growing through their infancy before they really start sexing and flowering. it forces the veg cycle down to the few weeks and shows sex around the second or third week. so you're right there where you're supposed to be.

figure 15-20 days out of infancy than the flowering stretch phase lasts 2 weeks and budding starts stacking. which is where you are at now. so yeah probably about 50 days more till chop.

Motaco:

Thanks for the comments. I think they are going to do pretty well. The only remaining question is will I need to repot them and will minor root pruning harm them.

I have also decided to bite the proverbial bullet. I'm going to go ahead and build a mother/clone box. All things considered I will have to limit it to about 30"W x 18"H x 18"D. I'll use T-5 Fluorescents to minimize power consumption and heat generation. Four 24" T-5s will produce about 9000Lumens. Considering you can put the plants almost touching the lights(use plant stands to keep them at right at lights), that should do OK for vegging moms and clones.

I have also decided to make a small "Male Dormatory" big enough for 2 males. I have a dual CFL fixture that should work for that. I'll be following JJ Scorpio's "Bonsai Mom" advice on growing my parent plants/clones.

I can see that I really don't have a choice. Doing "seed" grows is hopeless when it comes to sativas. Just takes to long and is too much hassle. PLUS, I think it might be fun to try my hand at a little bit of breeding. And to that end I just now ordered:

1 pack of each of the following:

Mr Nice's Super Silver Haze

Mandala's Kalichakra A sativa hybrid

The Seeds Man's Mama Thai A pure Thai so the ad says

The Seeds Man's Skunk Haze

The Seeds Man's Skunk No.1

Those along with the Malawi Gold , Durban Poison, and the California Orange Bud that I already own...

Those eight strains plus any of the ThaiTanics and Satoris I reveg should keep me busy for a LONG time. And doing this will mean I won't have to buy any seeds for the forseeable future(good for security)...unless something irresistable comes along

I know some of those can get really large, and may be difficult to train/control....but if I don't learn how to do that now...when will be a good time? I think I have the talent to grow these plants. It does take time, patience, and attention to detail....but I'm just an old single fart. I'll manage it

My plans for the male dorm include good filtration of air exhausted from the dorm. Will that be enough to keep the male dorm in the same bedroom as my HydroHut? Maybe put an Ultraviolet light in the air exhaust stream to kill pollen?

Any adfvice on male grows is appreciated.

I know I seem to have gone apeshit, but I love this stuff.

Obli

Who thinks I have lost what little of my mind I have left?

no its totally cool. I'm glad. I love seeing you and floppy and hardhat and others are up to. thats why I started the thread to inspire people.

you know I'm still pretty poor now, but when I was a kid I was broke as a joke. I used to sit in alleys or behind closed businesses where ever. To go smoke weed as a kid in the city you know you had to get out of sight. and I'd just roll up a blunt of schwag (really all anyone had back then. "kind bud" was in its infancy in new orleans. twenty years behind the times) and I'd end up staring at the seeds spaced out like a mexican will do to you. Wondering where it was from. Who grew it. What the plant looked like before chop. What better weed was like.

I still stare at seeds that I buy. but in a different way. and without OG and those smarter cats than me I wouldn't know much. I was growing but very basic (miracle grow) and didn't know shit about strains. hell for years we thought blueberry was put in a jar with blueberries or something. some people thought they were just grown next to blueberries.

when I got the internet in '00 it was a real information explosion for me. alot of random things I knew got pieced together. and god the grow faq and the marijuana growers handbook free on the net. I must've read those ten times each. Then I gave somebody two grams for a bong & the big book of buds and was just drooling.

we also started getting humboldt weed around this time. it was just big changes. still to this day the beaster market is 80% of the "kind bud" in new orleans and most everyone only smokes schwag. It's not uncommon at all for lifelong smokers in new orleans to say "what is that?" when they see an actual fresh nug. not like what strain it is they don't even think its weed. It was getting better but katrina put us back a spell in the weed world too. so many dealers and middlemen important for it to just work moved.

but anyway on a male chamber. Nice to see you think about breeding that is one of my loves. When you first grow a seed you made yourself its really cool. I never kept a male tub in the same room though. So I can't say. I used to just put in on top of the dirty clothes hamper in the bathroom.

and going crazy? hell according to our country eating effexor and watching reality tv (remeber when that was called voyeurism and was an internet sex fetish? ahh the good old days) is considered normal so the question is do you really want to be normal?

Oblidio49 said:

Hi everyone:

This picture below was a few mins ago on 9/17. I watered and measured. The Satori are now 34-36", essentially doubling in height. Three of the four ThaiTanics are now 30", essentially more than quadrupling!! in height in just 20 days. Is this the influence of the Thai genetics?

I can see how a pure Thai sativa might grow HUGE if given light and space, etc.

Obli

Click to expand...

thais grow big no matter what you do

You folks take care. Good luck with your grows and your lives

I'll try to catch up with y'all later in the year sometime.

As always, I appreciate the help everyone here has been so generous in giving.

Obli

Aw. sorry to see you go bro. I guess the problem with the leaky plumbing of the neighbor upstairs caused a problem.

Oblidio.Hope everything is well with you.Take it easy.
Peace

Yeah Oblidio, it's tough to see you go. I almost felt the same need earlier in the yr, I know where you're coming from. Good luck w/ finishing up your grow, hoping you didn't feel compromised enough to curtail it. Best wishes, HL

Hey hardhat, good to see you made it over to CE!

I can heartily recommend 12/12 from seed in order to keep sativas small indoors. Here is a Swazi flowered from seed in a 2 litre pot:







Alternatively, vegging for a few weeks and pruning/training into a small bush so your plant grows many smaller colas rather than one large one also works well, as with this Zamal x Neville's Haze:









Both of those plants were grown in a tiny space less than 3 feet tell with a 250w HPS, so if there's a will, there's always a way to enjoy sativas.

hardhat22 said:

That kinda blows my mind.If pollen is spread so readily,it would be almost impossible for a farmer to completely isolate his crop if he wants to retain seed for the next crop.So,could I be right when I think that the Columbian Gold and Panama Red that I smoked as a young lad could be different somehow?I haven't seen it in years.The Red is still being grown a few miles from here but I'm not sure it is exactly the same as it was 29 years ago when I first smoked it.I also wonder why people are so keen to have hemp farming legalized if the stray pollen could ruin their crops from miles away.Are hemp males culled or harvested before flower as the female is?
Peace

Click to expand...

My impression is that most outdoor growers that preserve their seed lines would grow out their males to keep the next generation going. With the amount of pollen the female plants get in close contact with the male plants, few stray hemp pollen would probably be, say for example, 2% of the total pollen, therefore wouldn't make much of a difference, since weaker plants are culled at the end of every generation anyway. The only way this would change anything is if 1000's of plants are grown in open pollenation IMO.


A few questions for Motaco, out of curiosity...

motaco said:

Thats why I really don't reccomend 12/12 from seed for most plants unless they are pretty sativa. It's still good and the fastest way to find a mom don't get me wrong, but in my experience most things with that amount of sativa. cherry bomb 2, willi nelson, diesel, etc etc usually don't yield too much flowered from seed. I used many of them for hole fillers in the canopy.

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I thought Willie Nelson was 100% sativa (Viet black x highland nepalese)... Most plants shouldn't yield too well 12/12 from seed, but judging from your advice, do pure sativa's generally yield decently with this technique?

motaco said:

But remember I don't reccomend growing 12/12 from seed. I reccomend growing 12/12 from seed on stretchy sativas and to get mothers. I don't reccomend starting a breeding operation to cover the seeds of a constant plantlet garden.

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What would you recommend to 'covering the seeds' of a garden? I ask because, even though I'm not growing right now, I can't imagine keeping a clone alive to maintain a strain in the garden indefinitely... That would tie your schedule down (i.e. how to move...). I know most people do this without problems, but for me if I was to buy 10 seeds for 100-something bucks, I would want to make F2's.

I hope my newbness doesn't show through too much. Patience I have alot of, and it is my mission to learn as much as I can.

no no problem at all thats what we're here for. I'll answer you're questions from the bottom up.

if you want to make f2's and I certainly do just to find the best weed. (you usually won't find the best plant in ten you'll find it by culling 100 asap and growing the best ten out of that hundred) its no problem. its especially good for a strain like willi nelson. the highland nepalese pheno is none to interesting IMHO and the VB pheno is what you want. so chasing the vb pheno out of your f2's is probably going to make you alot happier than the f1. what I meant by I don't reccomend keeping a garden going is that when you take a clone you have the best plant out of 100, 200, 300 seeds. Obviously you don't let them mature, you'd need a greenhouse! You cull all but the most robust and stinky plants in the first two weeks of growing, as you cull you replace with more. and keep only the truly impressive ones. when you are done your ten should be "elite" quality genes selected from a large stock. and the cut is a mom and is your till however long. average seeds won't produce above average weed you gotta search for the right one.

you'd be surprised. homegrown is not synonymous with good weed. alot of weed you'll grow will be nothing special. thats why you need clones. same thing with the yield and potency question. they all vary seed by seed so a few will yield well, but far from all of them.

When I said I didn't reccomend taking up breeding to cover the plantlet method I was referring to the "12/12 from seed thread" I got into an argument telling them it wasn't really a great way to grow weed on a continuous basis. we have a different take on the uses of this method of growing.

I also don't believe breeders. WN stone is pretty sativa. but the plant itself is far from a "pure" landrace sativa cross. he's done some working. and that nepalese is short and stout. so its dependant on strain by strain. SSH, alot of mexicans, africans, and thais yield well. But not all. hawaiian sativa is supposedly pure which I don't believe despite its thin thin leaves and it stays short. WN stays short, lots do.

but how far are you moving and how often? because a clone isn't going to be big. a rooted clone can fit in a toilet paper tube and they have all 5 finger blades cut off. its pretty easy to hide if you're not flying. you can just bury it in the bush of another house plant.

I realize that might not have answered entirely.

the difference between my method and Hal/atmosphere's 12/12 from seed method is they believe by giving no veg time, not growing males, and dedicating all light/time/space to flowering plants in a quick turn around it will outyield a traditional grow in the GE (growroom efficiency) calculator which is a measurement of grams per watt and time. In short what your garden yields per watt in a total length of time like a year. They think that though a plantlet garden yields less since there is no veg time or light used on it that outyields a traditional grow by adding another harvest per year. But is based off of a steady supply of seeds

My method is rootbinding SOG sativas to control height with no veg time. I do them 12/12 from seed too to help control height and is still a SOG type garden. By eliminating veg time it keeps them shorter and I can find moms faster. which is what I'm about. finding moms fast. growing from 12/12 from seed has NUMEROUS problems and I don't reccomend it for other than the purposes I went into earlier. I really went off on why I don't reccomend it in the first few pages of hals thread if you want more reasons why.