It would be easy to feminize FINOLA to get all female seeds and it would still be legal FINOLA. In the EU you must seed hemp crops to get the EU subsidy.
-SamS
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Dutch pilot experiment: LEGALLY growing organic female hemp flowers high in CBD
- Thread starter DutchHempCBD
- Start date
It would be easy to feminize FINOLA to get all female seeds and it would still be legal FINOLA. In the EU you must seed hemp crops to get the EU subsidy.
-SamS
Hi Guys,
Been looking into the possibilty of growing LEGAL strains of hemp indoors under lights.
Main reason for this, would be able to (small scale say 500 plants) pull out all the male plants, and only mature the females 'sinsemilla' technique. Cost effectivenes would be and issue due to cost of electric, however 30kW of solar panels would produce what would be required and the FIT would pay for it over a 5 year period. Whilst obviously the quantity would be far less than growing outdoors on say an acre of land, you would get 3 crops a year rather than 1 crop.
Any thoughts guys ?
Thanks
Karl...
Been looking into the possibilty of growing LEGAL strains of hemp indoors under lights.
Main reason for this, would be able to (small scale say 500 plants) pull out all the male plants, and only mature the females 'sinsemilla' technique. Cost effectivenes would be and issue due to cost of electric, however 30kW of solar panels would produce what would be required and the FIT would pay for it over a 5 year period. Whilst obviously the quantity would be far less than growing outdoors on say an acre of land, you would get 3 crops a year rather than 1 crop.
Any thoughts guys ?
Thanks
Karl...
.Hi Karl,
You're free to use cuttings but I don't see how you're managing that for a full acre... thousands upon thousands... Anyway, taking cuttings from Finola may prove impossible as it is 'functionally autoflowering'; that is, it flowers spontaneously under most culture conditions. Then again, you'd have to check with the UK law if it's permitted to use cuttings and have all female or unseeded crops. Some countries allow only the sowing of approved, unadulterated seeds from one of the official agencies or prohibit seedless crops.
Culling works, it has been done, but it's a pain in the arse. Besides, there are no EU approved all female varieties nor male sterile ones. You can choose between dioecious varieties (males and females at a 1:1 ratio), monoecious ones ('full-hermie females'), and female predominant ones (mostly females with a few 'hermies' and/or males). More to the latter is explained in my link above (and in my signature).
Uniko-B, the F1 is almost all female. Not monoecious.
-SamS
THC concentration of all approved hemp cultivars (EU, Canada, Russia, China) is well below 0.2% (often below 0.03%), CBD in most older varieties is around 2 to 5% whereas modern ones are often lower and certainly not higher (usually, THC to CBD ratio is 1:10-20). The general rule for all EFTA/EU countries where hemp is principally legal (with or without licence) states that it doesn't matter what hemp variety you sow as long as it's approved by the EU. Most European hemp varieties which have an approval in their country of origin also have the EU approval (There's a link in above mentioned Hemp Seed Hub to the European Seed Crop Database or some name like that). PLEASE, read the first post in said link thoroughly and also look at the embedded links (below the chapter 'Legend', small font size), there's a lot of information you're currently asking about.
It is straight forward except because Finola is so early you need to spray them with STS very early, not when you reduce the photo period to 12 from 18 like with normal drug varieties clones.
Under lights, I would start the Finola under 24 hours of light and then just before sex begins to show spray some them with STS and then reduce the hours. If you can't tell when the sex will show then do a few first and measure the time it takes how many days, then start the main crop and use the first crop to time it correctly. I bet you could also do it outside in the ground, you just need to time it right. Plant seeds maybe middle of May to assure as long a photo period as possible, the rest is the same. Also you only need 1/10th or 1/20th of the plants to be masculinized with STS, all the rest leave female. It might be a bit of a hassle to find and spray only the 1/20th of the females, but if you need to wait a bit and kill all males before you do any masculinization of the females do that. The next year starting with an all female seed crop it will be much easier to produce a bigger all female seed crop. No need to sex anything just time the STS application on the all female crop right and make lots more all female seeds.
-SamS
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Sure, it would be possible, I'm not saying it ain't. I simply didn't know if it were legal to grow sensi hemp in the EU.
Nitpicking as always (both of us LoL).
The Uniko-B farmers buy is the F2 generation with ~30% males
.
Finola, if grow warm (above maybe 20°C), at least the males behave like autoflowering plants (not entirely convinced that they aren't in their northern 'habitat'). Both sexes start flowering earlier and the time between males and females showing sex is shorter (a few days at best). On the contrary, the Finola males I sow in February in a non-heated greenhouse (sometimes even under 0°C at night and ~10-15°C during the best days) showed sex about 2-3 weeks before the females. I'm sure you'll find, with some trial and error, the conditions where you can easily cull the males before the females show sex and still have enough time to treat the females with STS before they flower.
Sure, it would be possible, I'm not saying it ain't. I simply didn't know if it were legal to grow sensi hemp in the EU.
Nitpicking as always (both of us LoL).
The Uniko-B farmers buy is the F2 generation with ~30% males
Correct but I do have the F1. Dr Bocsa gave them to me.
-SamS
Sam, I guess you have everything when it comes to cannabis/hemp !
BTW, did Dr. Bocsa gave you also some Panorama?
!BTW, did Dr. Bocsa gave you also some Panorama?
Sam, I guess you have everything when it comes to cannabis/hemp
BTW, did Dr. Bocsa gave you also some Panorama?
Sure I got some. He offered to sell me the variety pretty cheap but I saw no future in it. Kinda of a pretty plant though. Really round like a beach ball.
He also made me a unisex S African but I did not like the taste, the potency or the high so I declined it. He made it from my S African Durban Poison with out even asking me first, and was shocked I did not want it. I did not want it because it still has a few male flowers on each plant and will set seeds for sure. They were all female plants if you ignore the few male flowers....
He was a genius hemp breeder, maybe the best, a terrible drug Cannabis breeder, as a non smoker he just did not get it.....
-SamS
It is good you did not seed them, than the rats would come back and try and eat every seed. Our dogs and hawks already been dealing with most of em, thanks for your concern Sam
What was the area or total number of plants? I am wondering why it would take so long? I can sex a acre a day, more with help.
-SamS
There are 12 lanes of about 4.5 meter length, each lane containing about 150 female plants on average. > So about 1800 surviving females are now left standing.
I sourced my Finola seed from 4 different places. 1.Helsinky University Finola. 2.Directly from the Finola company. 3.Reform shop Finola seed meant for human consumption. 4. A landscaping friend's Finola Batch who's been growing them every year for plain ornamental and soil improving reasons.
All batches of seeds were looking slightly different allthough the resulting plants are looking fairly uniform.
It took so long because the males will not be showing all at approximatly the same time.
Between the first and the last ones to show gender would take up to about one month.
The first males will be showing out at about 3.5 weeks after emerging at the surface. The last males largely one month there after.
Note that we have eternal day length at my lattitude during the time of early bloom. >
I have noticed before that several feno's of presumed 'fully automatic strains' will take longer to show gender as when exposed to shorter day length frequencies.
@ Dutch,
Extraction, maybe the best and most cost efective way >> Distillation.
Get the bud and small amounts of leaf matter, dry them, freeze them. Also freeze 95%ABV or 190 proof alcohol, freeze this.
Then mix the hemp matter with the alcohol, and agitate for a good 5 minutes, then filter this liquid ( you could them juice the 'used' hemp buds and leaves).
Now for distillation, get a Turbo 500 Distiller or similar, add the hemp liquid and draw off the alcohol. (you can re-use the alcohol for next distillation) you are left with hemp oil, you could add the juiced element also if required.
Furthermore before you stated, you could produce the 190 proof alcohol required, from the turbo 500 still, by producting a commercial mash of 25 lites, this would produce 5 litres or so of 190 proof alcohol.
Would be time consuming, but would get all the element out that you are after.
Karl.......
Extraction, maybe the best and most cost efective way >> Distillation.
Get the bud and small amounts of leaf matter, dry them, freeze them. Also freeze 95%ABV or 190 proof alcohol, freeze this.
Then mix the hemp matter with the alcohol, and agitate for a good 5 minutes, then filter this liquid ( you could them juice the 'used' hemp buds and leaves).
Now for distillation, get a Turbo 500 Distiller or similar, add the hemp liquid and draw off the alcohol. (you can re-use the alcohol for next distillation) you are left with hemp oil, you could add the juiced element also if required.
Furthermore before you stated, you could produce the 190 proof alcohol required, from the turbo 500 still, by producting a commercial mash of 25 lites, this would produce 5 litres or so of 190 proof alcohol.
Would be time consuming, but would get all the element out that you are after.
Karl.......
He'd loose a considerable amount of monoterpenes during distillation. Reusing the alcohol several times would reduce the losses over time, but in a non-predictable way. And, soaking only for a few minutes will only extract what's in the trichomes but not what's in the leaves (e.g. flavonoids and other unknown but healthy stuff).
You would need a still about the scale of one of those fuel ethanol plants that popped up all over the American midwest a few years ago and now are regularly going bankrupt. You could probably find one for sale cheap there but I don't know about Europe. I don't think ethanol for fuel got very big in Europe.
I use a simple still to recover ethanol in my extraction process. I get about a 3/4 recovery.
I use a simple still to recover ethanol in my extraction process. I get about a 3/4 recovery.
Moonshining here in the old Europe is rather scarce .
The official channels to get the permits may even become a nightmare; how do you explain that you use a still not for the alcohol but for what's left? Might be more tricky than it sounds. Sub-contract the extraction process to someone who has the permits and the means to deal with huge quantities may be the easiest and cheapest (though certainly not cheap) way to go...
.The official channels to get the permits may even become a nightmare; how do you explain that you use a still not for the alcohol but for what's left? Might be more tricky than it sounds. Sub-contract the extraction process to someone who has the permits and the means to deal with huge quantities may be the easiest and cheapest (though certainly not cheap) way to go...
Hi All,
Finola Seeds & Fedora 17 seeds, tried Finola to order some, they havent got back to me as yet, but judging by last year they may run our quick ...
So do any of you know were I can get these seeds from both varities, so I can compare one against the other in UK climate.
Thanks
Karl...
Finola Seeds & Fedora 17 seeds, tried Finola to order some, they havent got back to me as yet, but judging by last year they may run our quick ...
So do any of you know were I can get these seeds from both varities, so I can compare one against the other in UK climate.
Thanks
Karl...
Hi Karl,
Remember the 'The Hemp Seed Hub'? There's that special link to the Common Catalogue of Varieties of Agricultural Plant Species available in different languages.
First, you search the two varieties, then remember the number of the supplier mentioned in the right column, and finally search that one at the end of the document. The numbers are *FI 6157 for Finola (a Finnish supplier, likely the one you already contacted) and *FR 8194 for Fédora 17 in France or *CH 170 for Switzerland. I leave it to you finding the addresses in the document.
Remember, the French authorities most likely speak only French and nothing else whereas the Swiss ones will speak French and German fluently but should understand English and Italian fairly well. Furthermore, according to my experiences with both, dealing with the Swiss folks will be a lot smoother; but like with nearly everything from Switzerland, it might cost more too (but that's often worth the trouble, believe me) .
Remember the 'The Hemp Seed Hub'? There's that special link to the Common Catalogue of Varieties of Agricultural Plant Species available in different languages.
First, you search the two varieties, then remember the number of the supplier mentioned in the right column, and finally search that one at the end of the document. The numbers are *FI 6157 for Finola (a Finnish supplier, likely the one you already contacted) and *FR 8194 for Fédora 17 in France or *CH 170 for Switzerland. I leave it to you finding the addresses in the document.
Remember, the French authorities most likely speak only French and nothing else whereas the Swiss ones will speak French and German fluently but should understand English and Italian fairly well. Furthermore, according to my experiences with both, dealing with the Swiss folks will be a lot smoother; but like with nearly everything from Switzerland, it might cost more too (but that's often worth the trouble, believe me)
.
Cannabliss420
Member
interesting stuff OO
DutchHempCBD
Member
Thanks everybody for your input. Much appreciated.
@Karl.Uk Destilation will not extract the cannabinoids in acid form. And as OO points out, cosiderable loss of (mono)terpenes.
As for growing hemp indoors. This is not allowed in the Netherlands. Hemp can only be grown in ''full soil'' (not pots etc.) and ''open air''.
@OnlyOrnamental Thanks for your viewpoint on flavonoids and the limited amount of lecithin from hemp seeds.
I'll keep you guys posted on the progress. I will be doing some small extraction tests soon.
@Karl.Uk Destilation will not extract the cannabinoids in acid form. And as OO points out, cosiderable loss of (mono)terpenes.
As for growing hemp indoors. This is not allowed in the Netherlands. Hemp can only be grown in ''full soil'' (not pots etc.) and ''open air''.
@OnlyOrnamental Thanks for your viewpoint on flavonoids and the limited amount of lecithin from hemp seeds.
I'll keep you guys posted on the progress. I will be doing some small extraction tests soon.
