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Root Temp Concerns with No Till

C

Canna-dian

New member
Planted in 10 gallon fabric pots sitting on raised grating for airflow. Day temp at plant tops average 25.5c (78F) and night 20c (68F) however my root zone temps go no higher than 17.5 c (63F) in day and drop down as low as 16.5c (61F) at night. Will these root/soil temps significantly lower microbial development in my TLO grow? What is the optimum soil temp with organics? I have currently placed one pot on a thermo controlled propagation mat set to 20c to see if see any change though my girls are looking healthy at 35 days from seed.
 
h.h.

h.h.

Active member
Veteran
There's reports of microbes appearing as the glaciers melt.
Hardy little buggers.
 
Weird

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
too cold will slow plant growth



I find certain strains do best in certain temp ranges as the ranges effect microbial composition as does local environment


I don't take soil temps but I do run in rooms that can get colder than that


I find it can be a detriment and benefit depending on when it happens, beginning of a run when you want the plants to scream, not so great



but it can be a benefit if you are running plants that won't finish up as a cue to do so



would love to give you perfect soil temps but I personally would base them on strain AND personally I try to run in the range of the natural soil where I grow as a means to be as compatible with oleaginous microbiology as it will be a constant pressure and supporting it and running strains that work well in that framework is easier and really helps a plant tailor the rhizosphere for subsequent plantings of same and genetically like cultivars instead of adding microbiology to maintain known strains of common microbiology
 
Rico Swazi

Rico Swazi

Active member
TLO ? as in the Revs spike and layer dynamic ? Seems to grow plants but I've often wondered what effect all those ingredients have on microbial life. A buddy down the street is doin the rev thing. Need a microscope myself to find out but lack of funds has me wondering in text.



I would like to add IMO, 10 gal is too small for proper no till,

better off using larger containers or large bed if possible


my experience has been 25gal containers handle the cold weather a bit better than my smaller tens but YMMV depending the ingredients of your mix as stated above


curious as to what you are using at the mo. Can you post your recipe? Thanks!
 
P

Pwyll

Member
How tall are the plants what is the temp at floor level? 68F at 5 foot off the ground might be 60F at 5 inches. With a thick canopy even 78F on top might be 65F underneath.

It would be good to bump the soil temp by 5 degrees. What impact does the heated mat have on soil temp? In a ten gallon pot does it affect just the bottom 2 or 3 inches? Replacing the grating with some rigid insulation might be enough.
 
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B

BasicallyBasic

New member
I was planning on building a planter box for my patio because my temps are a bit lower than ideal. I was thinking about running a hose into the planter box through the soil like a coil from top to bottom and attaching the hose to a pump which will circulate warm water from a small insulated reservoir heated with an aquarium heater. The idea is to run it overnight so the radiant heat from the hose warms the root zone keeping the microbial life at a higher temperature. The temps get down to around 10 degrees C at night time and are usually around 18-24 during the day.
Any comments on the idea?
 
thailer

thailer

Well-known member
i have a 20 gallon fabric pot and had a compost thermometer measuring the soil temp for several months and it was 60-63F winter or summer. didn't matter.

an aquarium heater can't raise the temps very high in cold weather outdoors but if ya still want, soil heating cables can be used and they work well for a pretty affordable price. you just bury them in the soil but keep an eye on watering because it dries the soil out easily from the warmth. i wouldn't worry about your microbes needing warmer temps, or your roots for that matter.
 
B

BasicallyBasic

New member
thailer said:
i have a 20 gallon fabric pot and had a compost thermometer measuring the soil temp for several months and it was 60-63F winter or summer. didn't matter.

an aquarium heater can't raise the temps very high in cold weather outdoors but if ya still want, soil heating cables can be used and they work well for a pretty affordable price. you just bury them in the soil but keep an eye on watering because it dries the soil out easily from the warmth. i wouldn't worry about your microbes needing warmer temps, or your roots for that matter.
Click to expand...

How do you figure an aquarium heater can't heat a small volume of water in a cooler or other insulated container outside at around 10 degrees? The length of hose that would be circulating through the soil would be minimal volume of water. Just enough to fill the hose and safely cover the pump. With an aquarium heater in such a small volume of water and a thin gauge hose, I'd assume there would easily be sufficient heat radiating from the hose to warm the surrounding soil. What am I missing? I did a calculation for liquid volume in a cylindrical container for the values 1.5 cm diameter hose, 6 meters in length, height of the liquid in the container 1.5 cm and the volume required to fill the hose is just over a liter. Add maybe three liters to that to cover the pump and we're talking about heating 4 liters of water in an insulated container.
 
thailer

thailer

Well-known member
BasicallyBasic said:
How do you figure an aquarium heater can't heat a small volume of water in a cooler or other insulated container outside at around 10 degrees? The length of hose that would be circulating through the soil would be minimal volume of water. Just enough to fill the hose and safely cover the pump. With an aquarium heater in such a small volume of water and a thin gauge hose, I'd assume there would easily be sufficient heat radiating from the hose to warm the surrounding soil. What am I missing? I did a calculation for liquid volume in a cylindrical container for the values 1.5 cm diameter hose, 6 meters in length, height of the liquid in the container 1.5 cm and the volume required to fill the hose is just over a liter. Add maybe three liters to that to cover the pump and we're talking about heating 4 liters of water in an insulated container.
Click to expand...

maybe if it was insulated with small rez but depending on the watts of the heater, it can only raise the temp so many degrees above the room temp. i had a fish aquarium and i've tried using them in compost teas and also to help keep my pond from freezing over which did not work and it broke. they're just not very powerful when the room temps are cold. they're designed to warm up water a few degrees very slowly so there is no extreme swings in environment for fish. do you already have a pump and heater? if not, the soil cables are probably cheaper and made for exactly what you're trying to do. thats all.
 
B

BasicallyBasic

New member
As stated, an insulated container most likely a cooler. When you say you were trying to heat a compost tea, I'm assuming it was more than a gallon, probably 5 gallons right? And probably not in a covered insulated container right? So that's more than 4x the water that I will be heating with zero thermal retention capacity. And trying to keep a pond from freezing? We don't ever see frost here let alone freezing. You're talking about volumes of liquid that the aquarium heater is built for, I'm talking about using it "improperly" to heat less than recommended volumes of water. I can't find soil cables around here and I have the pump, heater and a cooler, just need to buy some cheap line. I think I'll try the experiment regardless.
 
Mattbho

Mattbho

Active member
Heat tape under the pots helps a lot. I do 20 gal soft pots and they still get cold feet in winter. They start crawling then lighter green red stems start shortly after. Look for flexwatt heat tape and it needs a thermostat or will get 120f . I also looked into in floor heating kit but was a lil pricey.

Never took temperature but my floor gets uncomfortably cold on my feet. I set thermostat to 72 it seems to work
 
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