Toxicant Formation in Dabbing: The Terpene Story

SkyHighLer said:

You can get away with such low temps if you're dabbing highly purified oil, but as GW jokes, the heavies will continue to vaporize on and on with anything else.

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Thats why I qtip my banger after every dab. Remove the schmooze.
Keeps the banger fresh and looking brand new.

I am a big fan of putting a very big dose on the nail cold, and passing around fraction hits while it heats

Interesting topic, Ive always wondered if dabbing at higher temps would be problematic...

I dab at 700F, been doing it for many years now. I dont like the 10min, racy high you get from a low temp dab....

Ive noticed my memory is SO BAD now...

A Scientist turned extractor told me a few months ago that this "Sauce" that is very popular WILL come out as cancer causing in the future. Something about it being an essential oil, I dont remember..

How are you guys taking the temperature??

I've never been able to get a solid reading using an inexpensive I.R. gun on my soldering iron tip. If using an I.R. gun or just touching a thermocouple to a soldering iron tip works, why doesn't the electronics community recommend doing so?

Measuring Soldering Tip Temperature Accuracy by James R. Hagan, Senior Product Designer, Weller,

https://www.techni-tool.com/site/ARTICLE_LIBRARY/Weller - Measuring_Soldering_Tip_Temp.pdf


Measuring Tip Temperature Accuracy

Soldering tip temperature accuracy can be measured with a wide variety of devices and equipment. There are two ways to measure tip temperature: Thermocouple and Contact Pyrometer.

There are a number of different instruments on the market that can accurately measure tip temperature using either of these methods. One of these is the Weller® WA2000 Soldering Analyzer, which has the capability of making both direct (welded) Thermocouple and Contact Pyrometer type measurements. In addition to the temperature measuring ports, some of these instruments, including the Weller WA2000, have the capability of measuring “Tip to Ground Resistance” and “Millivolt Potential” for the device being tested.


Thermocouple Measurement

Thermocouples are created by the joining of two dissimilar metals that produce a specific DC voltage (millivolt) reading at an absolute temperature. There are many different types of thermocouples used in the marketplace for temperature measurement. Weller chooses to use a Type “K” Thermocouple which is constructed of the dissimilar metals, Alumel and Chromel. The temperature range of this type of thermocouple is -200°C to +1350°C / -328°F to 2,462 °F.

Based on years of soldering iron tip measurements it has been determined that a Thermocouple bead welded to the surface of the tip is the most accurate method to provide a true reading of a soldering iron’s tip temperature.

The two dissimilar metals are joined by “bead-welding” the wires together to create the “sensing junction.” The bead-welded thermocouple is then spot or resistance welded to the working surface of the soldering tip, providing the most accurate temperature measurement possible.

The accuracy of the Type “K” thermocouple used in Weller products is an SLE (Special Limit of Error) and has a specified limit of error range of (1.1°C/ 1.9°F) or 0.4 %, whichever is greater.

The preferred method that Weller uses for tip temperature measurement is to attach a thermocouple to the working area of the tip. A 30 gauge, Type “K” Thermocouple is welded onto the tip as close to the working surface of the tip as possible. This ensures a precise measurement at the contact point of the soldering tip to the work.


Pyrometer Measurement

Pyrometers are designed to measure tip temperature stability and are not generally recommended for measuring tip temperature accuracy. The Pyrometer currently provided with the Weller WA2000 Soldering Analyzer and the method used for measuring temperature stability using the Pyrometer is shown below.

NOTE: Actual temperature readings using the pyrometer method will most likely be greater than 30 to 60 degrees F lower than the soldering tip is actually operating at. Even though it is not intended to be an accurate form of measurement, the level of accuracy or how low it may read when measuring the temperature with a contact device is still based on many factors, such as the cleanliness of the tip, operator pressure, amount of solder on the tip, angle of contact, etc.

Weller WA2000 SOLDERING IRON ANALYZER INSTRUCTION MANUAL,

https://www.weller-toolsus.com/MagentoShare/media/mannuals/WA2000_OI_PL.pdf


Weller K111 Type K thermocouple assembly (thermocouple welded to the tip,)

https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/...type-k-thermocouple-assembly-eta-tip-k111.htm


I use the Hakko FG100 soldering iron tip thermometer shown in this video, but without any solder, to compensate I use a lot of contact pressure, pushing the sensor down almost to the base plate. Without the solder it also takes longer to achieve a stable reading, about ten to twenty seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OmH7QxlXxQ


The best way it seems to take an accurate reading is to fully sink the sensor to the exact spot you want to test. Weller actually welds the thermocouple to the area to be tested, I think a drop of J-B Weld, etc. should produce nearly the same result. If you have an identical extra nail for your enail, J-B Weld a type K thermocouple tip exactly where you touch down your dabber, and then take a reading to recalibrate your PID controller's temperature offset.

^ I found another reference that common IR thermometers can't be used to measure small areas,

Why an IR Thermometer Should Not be Used to Measure Tip Temperature

http://kb.hakkousa.com/KnowledgebaseArticle11685.aspx

IR thermometers should not be used to measure tip temperature as they can provide inaccurate readings. Although all IR thermometers are different, the capability depends on the D:S ratio or the Distance to Spot ratio. Many IR thermometers have a D:S ratio of 8:1 or 12:1 which means that the thermometer needs to be a distance of 8" or 12" in order to read a 1" spot size. If you consider the size of a Hakko tip, the standard chisel tip size is roughly 2.4mm which is about 0.1". This would require the thermometer to be 0.8" or 1.2" away from the tip but the thermometer also has a minimum distance it needs to be away from the object. Some IR thermometers may be capable of measuring a small spot size like a Hakko tip, but please check your IR thermometers manufacturer specifications to be certain. Most IR thermometers will not be capable of measuring such a small spot size.

Hakko recommends using the FG-101 or FG-100 thermometers to measure soldering iron tip temperature. These thermometers are very accurate and are commonly used to verify soldering iron temperatures according to J-STD-001.

WaterFarmFan said:

What does the temperature inside of ceramic element in vape cartridges reach? These run best on pretty low wattage pen style batteries.

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Well, I finally got a response from Ccell, and they state a temperature range of 420F-450F inside the ceramic element. This actually makes me feel good about the toxicity. I understand that dab rigs work better at higher temps, but isn't lower healthier?

SkyHighLer said:

You can get away with such low temps if you're dabbing highly purified oil, but as GW jokes, the heavies will continue to vaporize on and on with anything else.

I currently have presets at 534, 578, 622, 666, and 710 Fahrenheit.

A thermocouple's accuracy drifts over time, especially at high temperatures. I recalibrated my microprocessor controlled dab station yesterday, after six months or so of use it was off by 25C (my soldering iron tip temperature meter reads in Celsius.)


An enail is a cobbled together device, nothing about it is a perfect match. It works, but just barely.


A soldering station has the exact same design goals as the perfect dab station:

1) Steady temperature

2) Steady temperature

3) Steady temperature

This is accomplished by having the exact amount of copper mass near the tip to instantaneously feed energy to the tip at application. The copper mass near the tip is in full contact with the heater/sensor to transfer energy. The heater wattage is exact to what is necessary to maintain tip temperature. And finally, the microprocessor parameters (like those of a generic PID controller) are dialed in exactly to what is necessary to keep the tip temp from dipping or overshooting. When my dabber makes contact with the soldering iron tip, the temperature doesn't fall, it rocks steady.

Rock Steady BC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO3I_YfcY48

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I live in a country where things like E nails and even quality pipes are hard to source because of prohibition. Has anyone ever converted a soldering iron into an E nail?

insomniac_AU said:

I live in a country where things like E nails and even quality pipes are hard to source because of prohibition. Has anyone ever converted a soldering iron into an E nail?

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An ordinary low wattage fixed temperature soldering iron is designed to maintain just about the right temperature for dabbing, maybe a little high. Attached are pictures of a temperature reading of my 25 watt Hakko N454 with the largest (5mm) bevel replacement tip available for it. 355C/671F is shown though it was holding 360C/680F using both hands to get it centered and steady.

I have a light wall dimmer I plug it into to control the temp if I feel like it, this is my backyard dab station.


Notes about the Hakko FG-100 soldering iron thermometer, I'm currently testing it's calibration, and have the latest generic version coming from over seas for comparison to those I already own. I increased the tension on the sensor by placing a piece of black rubber tubing in the slot limiting the third post's movement. I also raised the sensor by placing small pieces of green plastic tubing (slices of a butane refill adapter) on the posts. With these two mods the sensor wires will actually snap before the sensor gets near the base plate.


Also shown in the pictures is my favorite dabber, an Osung EXS 3 SE Dental Explorer,

https://www.amazon.com/Osung-EXS-De...pID=11SPly4dixL&preST=_SX342_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

The stainless steel wire brush is for scrubbing the soldering iron tip. The tip is composed of a durable steel alloy cap over a heavy copper core, brushing it over and over daily doesn't wear it down.

The short piece of nylon tubing with an o-ring to mark one end is 'the pipe.'

Paris OG nectar (BHO nugg run, sap loaded with crystals)