French Yellow Vests Get Fuel Hike Cancelled

gaiusmarius · Dec 12, 2018

Pepé The Grower said:
5 people died since the start of the events, 1 killed accidently by the police and the 4 other are traffic casualties due to the very action of the yellow jackets...

Refugees never rioted in france...yes there have been issues with them, but that was a far cry from a riot TBH.

Where you got it really wrong is about the far right, they've been at it since the very beginning, since, as i said earlier, they expect to win some more political power from those protest...far left came after that and his far from organized enough to make a difference, unless you think about melenchon and his party which is labeled as far left yet not really his (the guy is rich and just want supreme power, like most political leaders).

While i agree with you, the real problem is raising taxes are not used to do that, but to pay the debt interest to the international bankers. And there's not even a million of people in these manifestation, but barely 1% of the working force.

I don't know if you got an agenda or if you're ill informed, but either way what you're saying is simply far from reality on the ground.

well i am limited to viewing things from far away, but if you have better info, please don't hesitate to correct anything i got wrong.

the media likes to demonize anyone who protests, they love throwing the right wing label around, from the actual people in the protests it seemed to be non political, all sides were working together against the black helmets. by calling it a right wing protest you delegitimize them, these protests were not anti anyone except for the elites who rule France for the benefit of the elite, sad to see things made about right wing, when there was not one chant or nazi symbol visible among protesters.

St. Phatty · Dec 12, 2018

Mick said:
we are having our future decided by the climate change deniers. Viva la democracia

Actually we're also having our future decided by climate change believers. California for example.

Pepé The Grower · Dec 13, 2018

@ gaius:

the media likes to demonize anyone who protests, they love throwing the right wing label around, from the actual people in the protests it seemed to be non political, all sides were working together against the black helmets. by calling it a right wing protest you delegitimize them, these protests were not anti anyone except for the elites who rule France for the benefit of the elite, sad to see things made about right wing, when there was not one chant or nazi symbol visible among protesters.

Ha, cultural differences

...here freedom is a very relative thing, it's not like the US where freedom of speech is much broader, among other things. One cannot sport nazi symbol or sing nazi songs in public, facing charges for it.

At first the yellow movement was initiated on facebook by a couple of truck drivers, and within ten days what is now known as the "alt-right" took the lead for the most part, both on tv and social media (where those guys are very active and broadly followed, i guess it's easier to be hateful sitting behind a screen)...and while most of those yellow "leaders" are not directly affiliated to political parties it's clear to what side they are standing for...

Those people don't understand or respect the motto of this country "liberté,egalité, fraternité" , but claim to be the real ones.

We are in deep need of unity, things are not looking bright for the future, traditional parties surf on the nationalistic wave, and that's a dangerous game. Making differences beetwen french people according to their ethnies is what have always been done, and it did get us were we stand now, on the edge of civil war with ethnic cleansing...because, if you didn't knew yet, white nationalist and daesh are both faces of the same coin...an explosive one, if you ask me.

This issue is coupled with others, like the war on drug, low wages for most, high taxes to pay the bankster, the dumbing down of the general population through a lower school level, corrupt politics with only their electoral success on mind...and i could go on and on, as there is so much unattended and unsolvable problems here...

P.s: A thought for the people killed by a scumbag at Strasbourg christmas market, and their familly :frown:

Lost in a SOG · Dec 13, 2018

^^ I agree.. Britain is in much the same mess..

Its all subversion of democracy.. which is only going to get you what?

Thats right Totalitarianism.. violent protest doesnt really help democracy at least i cant think of any good examples that got people what they wanted.. I can think of wonderous things peaceful protest has accomplished but not pointless slab headed destruction and harm.

All that happens anyway invariably is the state gets bigger whacking sticks,, great. It allows for a situation of even more polarizing politics that dont help anyone resolve differences and balance society.. People lose faith in the concept of democracy. Righteous anger and xenophobia get ridden by baby faced despots doing the same bidding of internationalist 1% shitbags that the current parties are except harder, faster and sooner.

None of the shit going on now is by accident. It suits someones agenda. Just my opinion of course.

Pepé The Grower · Dec 13, 2018

None of the shit going on now is by accident. It suits someones agenda. Just my opinion of course.

I agree whole-heartedly, and it's a very sad situation. I'm really afraid a blood bath will occur sooner or later. War is never a good thing, even more when it's done on a global scale. Sadly,most people are easily triggered to point the finger at some scapegoats while the real wolves laugh in the dark, quietly waiting to pick the fruits of their occult actions.

The global elit run a war on us, wiping us out through the use of propaganda, social distractions and division. They feed us with deadly food, for both the spirit and the body.

gaiusmarius · Dec 13, 2018

Pepé The Grower said:
@ gaius:

Ha, cultural differences ...here freedom is a very relative thing, it's not like the US where freedom of speech is much broader, among other things. One cannot sport nazi symbol or sing nazi songs in public, facing charges for it.

At first the yellow movement was initiated on facebook by a couple of truck drivers, and within ten days what is now known as the "alt-right" took the lead for the most part, both on tv and social media (where those guys are very active and broadly followed, i guess it's easier to be hateful sitting behind a screen)...and while most of those yellow "leaders" are not directly affiliated to political parties it's clear to what side they are standing for...

Those people don't understand or respect the motto of this country "liberté,egalité, fraternité" , but claim to be the real ones.

We are in deep need of unity, things are not looking bright for the future, traditional parties surf on the nationalistic wave, and that's a dangerous game. Making differences beetwen french people according to their ethnies is what have always been done, and it did get us were we stand now, on the edge of civil war with ethnic cleansing...because, if you didn't knew yet, white nationalist and daesh are both faces of the same coin...an explosive one, if you ask me.

This issue is coupled with others, like the war on drug, low wages for most, high taxes to pay the bankster, the dumbing down of the general population through a lower school level, corrupt politics with only their electoral success on mind...and i could go on and on, as there is so much unattended and unsolvable problems here...

P.s: A thought for the people killed by a scumbag at Strasbourg christmas market, and their familly

there are a couple of points i'd like to make, first, did you see all the antifa and anarchist tags left all over the place after the protest? did you see any extreme nationalist symbols?

second, would you say 70% of the French sympathise with the right wing nationalists? well it seems some 2 thirds of the French were behind or had sympathy for the yellow vests.

these were average normal people who have been getting more and more worried about getting by and providing better for their kids, they care about things that directly effect their every day lives.

like i said Macron has fucked the working class up the ass and taken away things that generations of French workers fought to achieve, from the length of the working week, to lowering pensions, pensions people paid into their whole working lives and increasing the retirement age. now to add insult to injury, he gave his rich friends a huge richmans tax reduction and then fuel was to be taxed so high that folks wouldn't even get by anymore. so yeah i understand the people protesting that shit.

Pepé The Grower · Dec 13, 2018

did you see all the antifa and anarchist tags left all over the place after the protest?did you see any extreme nationalist symbols?

Yes. No.Why is that? Look at my previous answer for a starter of an explanation... and nationalist are trying their best to look mainstream, and they know very well it doesn't help when you're leaving swastika all over behind your path...

second, would you say 70% of the French sympathise with the right wing nationalists? well it seems some 2 thirds of the French were behind or had sympathy for the yellow vests.

This number comes a very limited poll, as stated here:
https://report.az/en/other-countries/survey-more-than-70-of-french-support-yellow-vests-movement/

The survey was conducted on the Internet on December 2 involving 1016 people over 18 years old

I have a hard time to see how one can say a sample of 1016 people is fairly representative of 70 millions people...

As for french supporting the right wing, well, 1/4 voters do.And more and more does ( thanks to last wave of terrorism and the MSM picturing of at least 10% of the society) . Probably out of desperation more than real hatred, yet it won't change the result.

like i said Macron has fucked the working class up the ass and taken away things that generations of French workers fought to achieve, from the length of the working week, to lowering pensions, pensions people paid into their whole working lives and increasing the retirement age. now to add insult to injury, he gave his rich friends a huge richmans tax reduction and then fuel was to be taxed so high that folks wouldn't even get by anymore. so yeah i understand the people protesting that shit

This is the trend for years now...all macron have done was foreseen ( he simply does what he said he will during his electoral campaign), yet some peeps did believe he will change things back to what they were during the "trente glorieuses"...that's wishful thinking as such economical growth is unacheivable without another global war...Most people simply lack comprehension of how the system works, and how fucked we are, running to a deadly impasse no matter what.

I'm neither pro macron or anti yellow vest, i'm just telling you things are not what they seems to be. Not yet.

St. Phatty · Dec 13, 2018

Pepé The Grower said:
I agree whole-heartedly, and it's a very sad situation. I'm really afraid a blood bath will occur sooner or later.

Sooner or later ... looks like Sooner.

Muslim & Gentile people around the globe have endured a blood bath since Israel murdered 2900+ people on 9-11.

gaiusmarius · Dec 13, 2018

Pepé The Grower said:
Yes. No.Why is that? Look at my previous answer for a starter of an explanation... and nationalist are trying their best to look mainstream, and they know very well it doesn't help when you're leaving swastika all over behind your path...

This number comes a very limited poll, as stated here:
https://report.az/en/other-countries/survey-more-than-70-of-french-support-yellow-vests-movement/

I have a hard time to see how one can say a sample of 1016 people is fairly representative of 70 millions people...

As for french supporting the right wing, well, 1/4 voters do.And more and more does ( thanks to last wave of terrorism and the MSM picturing of at least 10% of the society) . Probably out of desperation more than real hatred, yet it won't change the result.

This is the trend for years now...all macron have done was foreseen ( he simply does what he said he will during his electoral campaign), yet some peeps did believe he will change things back to what they were during the "trente glorieuses"...that's wishful thinking as such economical growth is unacheivable without another global war...Most people simply lack comprehension of how the system works, and how fucked we are, running to a deadly impasse no matter what.

I'm neither pro macron or anti yellow vest, i'm just telling you things are not what they seems to be. Not yet.

the French state is wasting it's resources on Globalism, european union bureaucracy and keeping the "empire", at least they try. at the same time the French elite are exporting their profits and not paying tax, while they employ people at worse and worse conditions. those are the facts, Macron is the face of the most recent attack on the working class, so they are protesting him. they want a leader who believes in France, not the EU and the globe infront of the French population.

gaiusmarius · Dec 13, 2018

'Nice speech, but I don't trust him': Yellow Vests react to Macron's address

[YOUTUBEIF]mmKDFGuYP3E[/YOUTUBEIF]

Pepé The Grower · Dec 13, 2018

St. Phatty said:
Sooner or later ... looks like Sooner.

Muslim & Gentile people around the globe have endured a blood bath since Israel murdered 2900+ people on 9-11.

People of every kind of faith and colors have been killed since the globalist took over the USA back at the end of the 19th century...IMHO

gaiusmarius said:
the French state is wasting it's resources on Globalism, european union bureaucracy and keeping the "empire", at least they try. at the same time the French elite are exporting their profits and not paying tax, while they employ people at worse and worse conditions. those are the facts, Macron is the face of the most recent attack on the working class, so they are protesting him.

I can agree with you on that, although i don't know exactly what you means by the "empire"?

gaiusmarius said:
they want a leader who believes in France, not the EU and the globe infront of the French population.

I don't think such a leader does exist. And if ever it does, it will probably do more harm than good to play it autarky like...like it or not, globalization is a done thing, trying to stay alone around your corner with the head in the sand won't change anything to it.
Multinational corporation do the rules, financial market does too, and no countries can get out of that scheme, not matter the will of any political leaders/ people.

gaiusmarius · Dec 13, 2018

French soldiers in Africa, and Syria is what i consider trying to keep up the empire

Pepé The Grower · Dec 13, 2018

Okay. All i can say is France must be schizophrenic, as it's fighting against islamist in Africa yet support them first in Lybia, then Syria, giving them military training and even sending some of her children to fight with daesh...

gaiusmarius · Dec 13, 2018

Pepé The Grower said:
Okay. All i can say is France must be schizophrenic, as it's fighting against islamist in Africa yet support them first in Lybia, then Syria, giving them military training and even sending some of her children to fight with daesh...

because in those African places, they are helping to fight the islamists so the western corporations can loot the place in peace. in Syria the French are supporting the terrorists for the same reason, they want western oligarchs to go in and rape the place, president Assad and his government are independent and want to keep Syria's wealth and alliances to what benefits them most.. so it's not schizophrenic, it's western domination based globalist. they want the right to go in anywhere and take what they want for pennies on the dollar, if country or a community tries to stand against this they are crushed.

gaiusmarius · Dec 13, 2018

Pepé The Grower said:
I don't think such a leader does exist. And if ever it does, it will probably do more harm than good to play it autarky like...like it or not, globalization is a done thing, trying to stay alone around your corner with the head in the sand won't change anything to it.
Multinational corporation do the rules, financial market does too, and no countries can get out of that scheme, not matter the will of any political leaders/ people.

we can regain our freedom from the giant multinational corporations, but only if people unite and force the break up of monopolistic corporations and corporations that don't have a decent and ethical code of conduct in pursuit of endless profits.

if a corporation want to do business in a country, selling things there or making things there, they have to be forced to do it in an ethical way, specially a company that operates in many countries.

corporations should need to be licensed to even operate, and part of their reason to be, should be to provide well paying jobs to those they employ. they are not allowed to pollute indiscriminately and use slave labor like working conditions.

if countries start making rules like that, the companies will have to play along, or they won't be doing business in that country, once 1 country does it, others will follow and before you know it those tyranical giant corporations will be broken up and forced to act in the interest of the population of the country they are operating in, instead of acting only in the interests of their share holders.

corporations should never have been allowed to get out of hand like this, they should never have given them person hood. corporations should only be allowed, with a limited charter, to achieve some common good which benefits the whole society, not some filthy rich bankers getting even richer.

Macron instead of standing up for the French, is trying to beg the corporations for some crumbs by doing everything they want, it's pathetic. but people are waking up to the reality.

Gry · Dec 13, 2018

Assessments that feel way too accurate.

igrowone · Dec 13, 2018

the ultimate cause?
it's not corporations, though they can be vile
or even wicked humans, humanity's wickedness is probably the same at its core
it's 7.7 billion humans on a planet that can't support them in the style they've become used to
the fix? would be pleasant to think we can out clever all the troubles that are building
but i fear things are going to end in the only way that they can, dramatic population adjustment

gaiusmarius · Dec 13, 2018

igrowone said:
the ultimate cause?
it's not corporations, though they can be vile
or even wicked humans, humanity's wickedness is probably the same at its core
it's 7.7 billion humans on a planet that can't support them in the style they've become used to
the fix? would be pleasant to think we can out clever all the troubles that are building
but i fear things are going to end in the only way that they can, dramatic population adjustment

i don't agree, a big problem i see today, is waste, from food waste, to energy waste human and machine produced energy. corruption adds even more waste, but the biggest issue is when the ultimate goal of a group/corporation is to make as much profit as inhumanly possible, no matter how ethically and morally repugnant.

our problem right now is not the lack of enough food, it's to do with food being too expensive and not being distributed. there are different causes, but a big one is groups of greedy people getting together to manipulate things so they can get even richer.

then we have the way the bio fuels have cause food prices to raise to the point where some millions can no longer feed them selves.

ironically and ridiculously, places with hunger, are often hugely wealthy in natural resources, there is no reason in a logical world for those nations to be poor and starving. but when you trap their governments through bribes or blackmail, to accept huge foreign loans and investments that take the best of everything out and leave crumbs for the nation it was stolen from. thats what you end up, rich countries full of starving slaving people.

to me thats the issue, people need to be ruling them selves on a local level with the power to allocate their own resources for the best of the whole group. it's ridiculous to have the world set up so 99.5 % are feudal slaves to the 0.5%, why? because they have most of the wealth? hows that a constitutional republic or democracy? just being rich shouldn't give you the right to loot and pillage the nations of the world. like i said, first step is to cut these giant multi national corporations down to size, make them get licenses to operate yearly preconditioned on how much good they do the society they serve.

igrowone · Dec 13, 2018

gaiusmarius said:
i don't agree, a big problem i see today, is waste, from food waste, to energy waste human and machine produced energy. corruption adds even more waste, but the biggest issue is when the ultimate goal of a group/corporation is to make as much profit as inhumanly possible, no matter how ethically and morally repugnant.

our problem right now is not the lack of enough food, it's to do with food being too expensive and not being distributed. there are different causes, but a big one is groups of greedy people getting together to manipulate things so they can get even richer.

then we have the way the bio fuels have cause food prices to raise to the point where some millions can no longer feed them selves.

ironically and ridiculously, places with hunger, are often hugely wealthy in natural resources, there is no reason in a logical world for those nations to be poor and starving. but when you trap their governments through bribes or blackmail, to accept huge foreign loans and investments that take the best of everything out and leave crumbs for the nation it was stolen from. thats what you end up, rich countries full of starving slaving people.

to me thats the issue, people need to be ruling them selves on a local level with the power to allocate their own resources for the best of the whole group. it's ridiculous to have the world set up so 99.5 % are feudal slaves to the 0.5%, why? because they have most of the wealth? hows that a constitutional republic or democracy? just being rich shouldn't give you the right to loot and pillage the nations of the world. like i said, first step is to cut these giant multi national corporations down to size, make them get licenses to operate yearly preconditioned on how much good they do the society they serve.

valid points, but they're not new
the human race has behaved much the same way through its history
slavery? slavery was more widespread and far worse in our past
i won't say there is no more slavery, but its circumstances are not as dire
what we see are the old way of doing things in a world with less to go around
some measures of wealth have increased, but the few benefit
and that's normal, the few have always gotten to the head of the line first

St. Phatty · Dec 13, 2018

gaiusmarius said:
i don't agree, a big problem i see today, is waste, from food waste, to energy waste human and machine produced energy. corruption adds even more waste, but the biggest issue is when the ultimate goal of a group/corporation is to make as much profit as inhumanly possible, no matter how ethically and morally repugnant.

Yes. Think how easy it would be to put the housing for homeless problem on its ear simply by letting them occupy abandoned shopping centers.

Artificial product scarcity is the last gasp of desperate business.

Down-sizing is what's going on in the US health care industry.

All of the problems that would have been taken care of by a general practitioner in a one appointment a year scenario - in the old days in the US, e.g. 30 years ago - are now spread out to pain clinics, sleep clinics, allergy clinics, etc. That one appointment has morphed into 10+ appointments = product down-sizing.

Sort of like a 24 ounce bread loaf being broken down into 2.4 ounce loaves. And the cost per loaf being raised to $300 or $400 - for the small loaf.

French Yellow Vests Get Fuel Hike Cancelled

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