U
ureapwhatusow
yea blaze does
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UV Light and Terpenoids
- Thread starter GreenintheThumb
- Start date
E
elmanito
Four Seasons had a pic from an old issue of High Times Magazine somewhere in the high mountains of Mexico.
The higher the altitude the quicker one sunburns. (One study suggested, for example, that an average complexion burns at six minutes at 11,000 feet at noon compared to 25 minutes at sea level in a temperate climate.)
Nmaaste
The higher the altitude the quicker one sunburns. (One study suggested, for example, that an average complexion burns at six minutes at 11,000 feet at noon compared to 25 minutes at sea level in a temperate climate.)
Nmaaste
E
EvilTwin
Hi Guys,
I just thought I'd post a picture of my installation. These are mercury vapor reptile lights. I used one on some sativas I was growing and felt it was effective (totally subjective I admit) So I bought a few more and am providing full UV-B to my whole bloom room. My main lights are on a mover so the reflectors only block the UV temporarily.
ET
PS: I might neaten up the wiring someday...but it's all way out of the way.
I just thought I'd post a picture of my installation. These are mercury vapor reptile lights. I used one on some sativas I was growing and felt it was effective (totally subjective I admit) So I bought a few more and am providing full UV-B to my whole bloom room. My main lights are on a mover so the reflectors only block the UV temporarily.
ET
PS: I might neaten up the wiring someday...but it's all way out of the way.
Attachments
E
EvilTwin
Hi Amoril,
They are Zoologist Mega-ray 60 watt externally ballasted MV lights. They also make a 100watt and a 160watt and I also understand that now, this company makes a small metal halide UV-B light which I would have purchased but hadn't heard about at the time I bought these.
There's a diagram included that shows various intensities at specific distances.
200 micro-watts/cm2 @ 34"-40" "Intense UV-B"
100-200 micro-watts/cm2 @ 42"-60" "Full-sun UV-B"
50-100 micro-watts/cm2 @ 60"-72" "morning sun UV-B"
Closer then 34" is considered dangerous for reptiles (and people I would presume)
The validity of UV-B reptile lights is assessed by doing vitamin D assays on reptiles exposed to the lights. I researched quite a lot before purchasing and I think these are pretty good.
Cheers,
ET
They are Zoologist Mega-ray 60 watt externally ballasted MV lights. They also make a 100watt and a 160watt and I also understand that now, this company makes a small metal halide UV-B light which I would have purchased but hadn't heard about at the time I bought these.
There's a diagram included that shows various intensities at specific distances.
200 micro-watts/cm2 @ 34"-40" "Intense UV-B"
100-200 micro-watts/cm2 @ 42"-60" "Full-sun UV-B"
50-100 micro-watts/cm2 @ 60"-72" "morning sun UV-B"
Closer then 34" is considered dangerous for reptiles (and people I would presume)
The validity of UV-B reptile lights is assessed by doing vitamin D assays on reptiles exposed to the lights. I researched quite a lot before purchasing and I think these are pretty good.
Cheers,
ET
The CMH emits UV, and I have no idea if it is the catalyst. but there is definitely a difference in calyx formation and seemingly resin production, compared to the same plant under HPS.
And I know for a fact that the light emitted by the CMH actually bleaches the plant (purple and black in most cases), where the HPS won't do that to the same clone. It is very apparent on stems that face the light through the duration of flower. Whether this anomaly has anything to do with resin quality/quantity, I have no idea.
And I know for a fact that the light emitted by the CMH actually bleaches the plant (purple and black in most cases), where the HPS won't do that to the same clone. It is very apparent on stems that face the light through the duration of flower. Whether this anomaly has anything to do with resin quality/quantity, I have no idea.
UV-B!!??
UV-B!!??
Hi All!
Very good info dudes! 3 different tests being conducted with lites
of various types....Hortilux 1000 w Blue MH, 940 HPS w conversion hortilux, and 40/32w 48" flouros and tubes of 3000K, 5000K by Phillips, and 5900K by OTTlite
for over 2 years ...One hood has the conversion HPS bulb only over a 4'X4' area
and the other hood has the 1000w Blue bulb only......and the last hood has a
combo of HPS conversion bulb + all the flouros around the perimeter of a 4'x4'
area also....The combo does the BEST! and the HIGH is much more ENJOYable!!
SEE!!! 1st pic is Romulan X Island Sweet Skunk X Shiva, and 2nd pic is Real OG Kush
UV-B!!??
Hi All!
Very good info dudes! 3 different tests being conducted with litesof various types....Hortilux 1000 w Blue MH, 940 HPS w conversion hortilux, and 40/32w 48" flouros and tubes of 3000K, 5000K by Phillips, and 5900K by OTTlite
for over 2 years ...One hood has the conversion HPS bulb only over a 4'X4' area
and the other hood has the 1000w Blue bulb only......and the last hood has a
combo of HPS conversion bulb + all the flouros around the perimeter of a 4'x4'
area also....The combo does the BEST! and the HIGH is much more ENJOYable!!
SEE!!! 1st pic is Romulan X Island Sweet Skunk X Shiva, and 2nd pic is Real OG KushAttachments
E
elmanito
There is definitely an explosion of resin with UV.I've seen some grows with plasma light and you could see the difference, even in the cannabinoid profile.
Namaste
Namaste
Interesting stuff folks 
This 'theory' ,,first perpetuated by Ed Rosenthal et al.,, has way too many holes in it to seem logically credible,, IMO. We agree that a side by side comparative is needed...
I didnt think you'd agree with me indifferent 
Let's put it another way ,UV is NOT highest in Autumn or Winter months when cannabis naturally flowers (in north and south hemisphere) and thus produces the majority of its cannabinoid profile.
Several African varieties (including Malawi and Congo) gave stalked resin glands on the underside of the shade leaves first,, followed by resin on the upper parts latter. This dispelling the myth.
Little impact suggests that UV light does play a role in the available light-spectrum. However there is no correlation between the role of resin in cannabis and melamine in human skin... which is where the root of this wild theory comes from!
Likewise if we look at companion species such as Paparver somniferum from the Hindu Kush region, or Cacti from the Yucatan peninsula ,, we find that these companion species do not produce a layer of resin , although they are still subjected to the same levels of UV.
UV is usually associated with and used by insects (in all of the above species) as a way of navigation/mapping sources of wild flowers / pollen in correlation to hive/colony location. It is quite possible,, and extremely interesting,, that cannabis may have evolved to utilise UV reflection (in its pistils and male flowers) over insects as a means of factotum ,, in maintaining population diversity and ultimately gene-pool preservation over longer distances than wind will allow.
This is one reason why ganja smells so much.. to draw insects in and make future map references on the ultraviolet pattern of that specific plant/population. For example, Bee's travelling back to the hive will relay the direction and distance of the UV pollen light source to fellow workers using an elaborate dance.
Hope this helps
This 'theory' ,,first perpetuated by Ed Rosenthal et al.,, has way too many holes in it to seem logically credible,, IMO. We agree that a side by side comparative is needed...
I didnt think you'd agree with me indifferent
Let's put it another way ,UV is NOT highest in Autumn or Winter months when cannabis naturally flowers (in north and south hemisphere) and thus produces the majority of its cannabinoid profile.
Several African varieties (including Malawi and Congo) gave stalked resin glands on the underside of the shade leaves first,, followed by resin on the upper parts latter. This dispelling the myth.
Little impact suggests that UV light does play a role in the available light-spectrum. However there is no correlation between the role of resin in cannabis and melamine in human skin... which is where the root of this wild theory comes from!
Likewise if we look at companion species such as Paparver somniferum from the Hindu Kush region, or Cacti from the Yucatan peninsula ,, we find that these companion species do not produce a layer of resin , although they are still subjected to the same levels of UV.
UV is usually associated with and used by insects (in all of the above species) as a way of navigation/mapping sources of wild flowers / pollen in correlation to hive/colony location. It is quite possible,, and extremely interesting,, that cannabis may have evolved to utilise UV reflection (in its pistils and male flowers) over insects as a means of factotum ,, in maintaining population diversity and ultimately gene-pool preservation over longer distances than wind will allow.
This is one reason why ganja smells so much.. to draw insects in and make future map references on the ultraviolet pattern of that specific plant/population. For example, Bee's travelling back to the hive will relay the direction and distance of the UV pollen light source to fellow workers using an elaborate dance.
Hope this helps
Interesting stuff folks
This 'theory' ,,first perpetuated by Ed Rosenthal et al.,, has way too many holes in it to seem logically credible,, IMO. We agree that a side by side comparative is needed...
I didnt think you'd agree with me indifferent
Let's put it another way ,UV is NOT highest in Autumn or Winter months when cannabis naturally flowers (in north and south hemisphere) and thus produces the majority of its cannabinoid profile.
Several African varieties (including Malawi and Congo) gave stalked resin glands on the underside of the shade leaves first,, followed by resin on the upper parts latter. This dispelling the myth.
Little impact suggests that UV light does play a role in the available light-spectrum. However there is no correlation between the role of resin in cannabis and melamine in human skin... which is where the root of this wild theory comes from!
Likewise if we look at companion species such as Paparver somniferum from the Hindu Kush region, or Cacti from the Yucatan peninsula ,, we find that these companion species do not produce a layer of resin , although they are still subjected to the same levels of UV.
UV is usually associated with and used by insects (in all of the above species) as a way of navigation/mapping sources of wild flowers / pollen in correlation to hive/colony location. It is quite possible,, and extremely interesting,, that cannabis may have evolved to utilise UV reflection (in its pistils and male flowers) over insects as a means of factotum ,, in maintaining population diversity and ultimately gene-pool preservation over longer distances than wind will allow.
This is one reason why ganja smells so much.. to draw insects in and make future map references on the ultraviolet pattern of that specific plant/population. For example, Bee's travelling back to the hive will relay the direction and distance of the UV pollen light source to fellow workers using an elaborate dance.
Hope this helps
I have to agree...and disagree with your statement.
I agree that UV light is at it's lowest when cannabis is flowering. So, that's out.
I disagree with the insect pollinating part. Cannabis doesn't use insects to pollinate. It open pollinates like grass or corn. Insects usually pollinate flowers with both male and female parts. There is no nectar in the male cannabis flowers, there is no reason for an insect to visit it.
I think the resin is to keep insects AWAY...not to attract them. It's sticky to trap them and keep them from crawling over the female flowers. The smell is possibly an alert that this plant isn't worth troubling over.
Just MY opinion...
Cool stuff.
By factotum as a secondary method of pollination in cannabis - so we're thinking that the larger insects are tricked into distributing pollen over a much longer/wider distances,, (say from one isolated valley to another),, than wind pollination alone would allow. We've all watched flies fly in land on the plants and fly off again,, (esp when plants smell of rotten flesh or sh*t)
The smell and bright UV reflection then draws the insect in... some resin sticks to the insects feet and furry body,,, they then search for pollen from plant to plant (males and females),, then fly off with pollen attached and pollinate other female plants in different populations or isolation from the pollen source. Plants are much smarter than we often give them credit for!
We're not suggesting that the insects directly feed on or even utilise male pollen as a food stuff,, just that they are subserviently used / tricked / beguiled by the cannabis plant into performing long distance pollination. This has been known to canna-botanists for some time. As shanti puts it "A Bumblebee cant fly from Brazil to Thailand,, so we do it here (in this room)." see 3 min 50 sec : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i85wn9MmLNY
Edit: Sure smaller pests find cannabis too toxic and get stuck in the resin,, in this sense resin is also used as a defense mechanism Likewise where larger browsing mammals are concerned,, then the line of resin stalks which first develop on the undersides of leaf veins is most advantageous to the survival of cannabis, thus deterring further browsing during the main period of vegitative growth in the summer months. Especally in arid regions where browsing animals are looking for water content in their diet.
Peace out
By factotum as a secondary method of pollination in cannabis - so we're thinking that the larger insects are tricked into distributing pollen over a much longer/wider distances,, (say from one isolated valley to another),, than wind pollination alone would allow. We've all watched flies fly in land on the plants and fly off again,, (esp when plants smell of rotten flesh or sh*t)
The smell and bright UV reflection then draws the insect in... some resin sticks to the insects feet and furry body,,, they then search for pollen from plant to plant (males and females),, then fly off with pollen attached and pollinate other female plants in different populations or isolation from the pollen source. Plants are much smarter than we often give them credit for!
We're not suggesting that the insects directly feed on or even utilise male pollen as a food stuff,, just that they are subserviently used / tricked / beguiled by the cannabis plant into performing long distance pollination. This has been known to canna-botanists for some time. As shanti puts it "A Bumblebee cant fly from Brazil to Thailand,, so we do it here (in this room)." see 3 min 50 sec : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i85wn9MmLNY
Edit: Sure smaller pests find cannabis too toxic and get stuck in the resin,, in this sense resin is also used as a defense mechanism
Likewise where larger browsing mammals are concerned,, then the line of resin stalks which first develop on the undersides of leaf veins is most advantageous to the survival of cannabis, thus deterring further browsing during the main period of vegitative growth in the summer months. Especally in arid regions where browsing animals are looking for water content in their diet.Peace out
full spectrum sunlight has all kinds of radiation outside of the human visible spectrum.
full spectrum sunlight 450 par watts/m^2... 1k sunmaster warm deluxe claims 385 par watts... skeptical of that... but combining eye hps w/ sm neutral or cool deluxe...
takes a lot of different light sources to mimic the array that the sun delivers...
ran 2 floro fixtures over tomato plants. 2+k vert... the bulbs are not cheapo. they burn out faster. sunmaster neutral deluxe will deliver adequate uvb, & last longer... or any 5+kelvin mh...
purple party lights wont hurt either...
enjoy your garden!
full spectrum sunlight 450 par watts/m^2... 1k sunmaster warm deluxe claims 385 par watts... skeptical of that... but combining eye hps w/ sm neutral or cool deluxe...
takes a lot of different light sources to mimic the array that the sun delivers...
ran 2 floro fixtures over tomato plants. 2+k vert... the bulbs are not cheapo. they burn out faster. sunmaster neutral deluxe will deliver adequate uvb, & last longer... or any 5+kelvin mh...
purple party lights wont hurt either...
enjoy your garden!
Yep. We've seen images of cannabis under UV spectrum in an old book,, (sorry not sure which one),, the white pistils clearly stood out,, suggesting that UV light is refracted from this part of the plant more-so than the resin (wish we could find such images to explain what it is we are aiming to explain).
If the resin glands were used to protect the plant from UV,, then these would reflect more UV light in the spectrum than the pistils do,, would they snot?
This 'UV theory over cannabinoid production' is weak... IMO / IME
Peaceful flowers
G
Guest
This topic is extremely interesting, but I am not scientist. Just a observer and try to use logic best I can. Ignorance is still something I strive to overcome daily, so please do not take these rambles as fact or even theory for that matter. Then again please do not dismiss them without thought. Just ramblings and observations. Keep on mind, the effect of UV light on plant (many species) in general is still very unknow in the scientific realm. Not just canna, but even the most study and observe variety of plant like corn. With that said, I find it hard for much actual evidence for one answer or another in reguard to canna and uv light; the best alternative imo is to simply gather what we know and speculate and form an open theory or opinion. Experience hold the answer, debate is just a way to draw the map how to get there.
The correlation between UV and cannaboids seem strange, but a correlation in some alternate plane or model none the less. Is hard for me to illustrate, but try the best of my able.
DNA Integrity is key for a species. It is what allow the species to continue it legacy. This is not to say that adaptation and dna mutation is bad, just bad for the integrity of the original dna. The opinion of the mutation will be subjective based on preference for what is good vs what is bad. Is the new dna better or worse, that dualistic battle is left for you not I. As that is a whole different can of worms. hehe
Something in the back of my brain just keep on and on. It keep on and on about adaptation, and mutation. That ever constant change and evolution living beings, most specifically the individual cells that make up the whole of an organism or species, or whatever the object may be. There are many way and factors that contribute the the mutation of dna within species, UV light one of them.
"Solar radiation is both a source of light for photosynthesis and UV that can damage plant DNA. Maintaining the integrity of DNA is of critical importance to all organisms. Plants use both DNA repair and various shielding strategies to minimize DNA damage; relatively little is known about the biochemical basis of irradiation-induced DNA damage in plants." credit to McLennan DNA Replication in Plants 1987
Without knowing much other than UV can have effect on DNA within species, and it appear as of current geological time that cannabis only natural exist in area with higher UV concentration it still leave me perplex on this topic. At or near the equator, or high altitude mountain range. Sometime both high altitude and near equator.
Do the plants posses a key for shielding themself from dna mutation by means of UV light? If so is it 100 percent effective, or less? These are a few question that arise imo. It is very much difficult to speculate, but over time with observance and testing our community can have more solid footing to walk over this topic.
Each and every time try to delve into something like this, only more question arise! Yet each question come back to the main two. Is UV good or bad for plant? Does UV even affect the plant? It almost seem as if this is one of those chicken and egg question, it is something beyond us. This dualistic world we live in will not allow us to transcend and witness the effects for as they are. Just some thoughts, this gal is still perplex and now fully convince that UV light can both affect and have no bearing on canna. It will remain this way until experience and prove otherwise.
Thank everyone for they contributions thus far, each has been very informative and helpful for gain insight on alternate views about this topic that is at the present time very understudied.
The correlation between UV and cannaboids seem strange, but a correlation in some alternate plane or model none the less. Is hard for me to illustrate, but try the best of my able.
DNA Integrity is key for a species. It is what allow the species to continue it legacy. This is not to say that adaptation and dna mutation is bad, just bad for the integrity of the original dna. The opinion of the mutation will be subjective based on preference for what is good vs what is bad. Is the new dna better or worse, that dualistic battle is left for you not I. As that is a whole different can of worms. hehe
Something in the back of my brain just keep on and on. It keep on and on about adaptation, and mutation. That ever constant change and evolution living beings, most specifically the individual cells that make up the whole of an organism or species, or whatever the object may be. There are many way and factors that contribute the the mutation of dna within species, UV light one of them.
"Solar radiation is both a source of light for photosynthesis and UV that can damage plant DNA. Maintaining the integrity of DNA is of critical importance to all organisms. Plants use both DNA repair and various shielding strategies to minimize DNA damage; relatively little is known about the biochemical basis of irradiation-induced DNA damage in plants." credit to McLennan DNA Replication in Plants 1987
Without knowing much other than UV can have effect on DNA within species, and it appear as of current geological time that cannabis only natural exist in area with higher UV concentration it still leave me perplex on this topic. At or near the equator, or high altitude mountain range. Sometime both high altitude and near equator.
Do the plants posses a key for shielding themself from dna mutation by means of UV light? If so is it 100 percent effective, or less? These are a few question that arise imo. It is very much difficult to speculate, but over time with observance and testing our community can have more solid footing to walk over this topic.
Each and every time try to delve into something like this, only more question arise! Yet each question come back to the main two. Is UV good or bad for plant? Does UV even affect the plant? It almost seem as if this is one of those chicken and egg question, it is something beyond us. This dualistic world we live in will not allow us to transcend and witness the effects for as they are. Just some thoughts, this gal is still perplex and now fully convince that UV light can both affect and have no bearing on canna. It will remain this way until experience and prove otherwise.
Thank everyone for they contributions thus far, each has been very informative and helpful for gain insight on alternate views about this topic that is at the present time very understudied.
Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison of grass grown indoors vs. outdoors (near the equator)?
I have always noticed a darker bud produced, but outside of that I could not tell the difference in terms potency or high. Then again, I didn't have the same pheno, or even the same genetic, to compare.
I have always noticed a darker bud produced, but outside of that I could not tell the difference in terms potency or high. Then again, I didn't have the same pheno, or even the same genetic, to compare.
plants use both 'red' & 'blue' light... or both 660nm & 440nm... & a few others... just different wavelengths.
posted bunch of data in this thread:
lighting conversion data
there is also additional data here:
This is a gold mine of cannabis growing laboratory research
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2469835&postcount=7
posted link to diy pyranometer... along w/ distinction between other light meters (quantum; radio)to measure between 400-700 nm (~plants assimilation spectrum). though plants may be able to process much more than this... along w/ soundwaves... etc
basically, the measures (formula/calculation) that g.house engineers use is
MH Lighting For Entire Grow?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2594469&postcount=30
sunmaster neutral deluxe (4k), or ~ any generic cheapo 4-5k mh...
just to show how much uv radiation sm neutral's put out...
they are 4 kelvin... cancelled uvb bulbs. used neutrals since kbs gardens, far more effective than tubes... kbs always included mh due to addition of density & reproductive gland catalyst...
they just grow better w/ blue light included thru out entire season, & fruit is more solid, aromatic & fuller filling...
requires 20 photons of light to mfg & store 1 molecule of sugar.
full spectrum sunlight is ~12*10^9 phtons per sec. or, 2k umoles(micromoles)/m^2/sec...
a 1k @ ~12" will give ~ 5000 lumens, which is same as 50,000 lux, which, depending on bulb(s) spectral array, may get to ~150-250 par watts. though, again, sm warm states 385 par watts... & leaves reach saturation @ ~300 par watts...
& best overall bulb seems 3-4k... sm warm deluxe ~3k... short, stout plant that are bushy, w/out elongation of hps' red influence... mixing 2k w/ 5-10k (k being kelvin temp, here), seems to deliver best overall finished fruit. taste, aroma, density, etc...
so... 1k's @ 1' or > give closest to saturation. in imaginary garden, w/ laminar & turbulent airflows, bare bulb 1k's get 2-6" away...
& @ saturation, spectral inputs seem to lose distinction & plant is functioning @ max op capacity... as long as vpd, diff, gas+cation exchange & temps are maximized as well...
this may also be helpful:
http://www.insidesun.com/FAQ_0388a0dd56fbcac417f723c6e370.html
*edit*
many, many unknowns about plant physiology, etc, but much is known...
enjoy your garden!
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