The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread

led05 · Jun 2, 2018

Avenger said:
why would one use calcium carbonate as a foliar application?

Almost every characteristic about it makes it a poor choice, no?

very pure form of cal carb in RO water IME delivers Ca better than any other method I've ever seen

this would be an example. I buy my minerals from Chem suppliers though for best quality and cost

https://www.xtreme-gardening.com/cal-carb

led05 · Jun 2, 2018

growingcrazy said:
Think about all the genetics that got tossed because they didn't grow well on GH 3 part...

and then epi-genetics.....

when I've said in the past think about your plants origin, weather, sunlight strength, length etc ---- if a plants origin is generations of closets and it's breeding there long enough, it def has to be considered and focused on, naturally...

anyone ever read the the russian wolf/dog (maybe it was fox?) breeding experiments and how fast the changes occur, it's mind blowing and this is a plant, an annual

Avenger · Jun 2, 2018

oh, of course "synthetic' calcium carbonate is the best "Natural" calcium source.

I Love the disregard for word definitions in marketing speak

I buy my minerals from Chem suppliers though for best quality and cost

me too

led05 · Jun 2, 2018

Avenger said:
oh of course "synthetic' calcium carbonate is the best "Natural" calcium source.

I'm not sure I follow, I get mined pure form cal-carb from a chemical supply company, if what I linked to is somehow "synthetic" you got me and it was purely an example as I've used Mykos in the past and remember their products but again, I don't follow.... I'm no chemist either

Avenger · Jun 2, 2018

yeah, Xtreme's CalCarb is Precipitated calcium carbonate, which is man made.

growingcrazy · Jun 2, 2018

Doing a side by side right now with this one...

60 ppm N and 200 ppm Ca foliar from Biomin

60 ppm N and 200 ppm Ca foliar from fish/citric acid/lime

Avenger, will I see much difference between the two?

Avenger · Jun 2, 2018

Are you just comparing by sight, or are you doing some laboratory testing?

how astute are you? What is your vision?

do both concoctions have the same solution chemical analysis(ionic composition/energy)?

jidoka · Jun 2, 2018

growingcrazy said:
Doing a side by side right now with this one...

60 ppm N and 200 ppm Ca foliar from Baicor

60 ppm N and 200 ppm Ca foliar from fish/citric acid/lime

Avenger, will I see much difference between the two?

Is the N from Baicor all glycine?

growingcrazy · Jun 2, 2018

jidoka said:
Is the N from Baicor all glycine?

Sorry, had to edit my post. I meant Biomin not Baicor.

Actually running 3 products total...the biomin, My brewed fish/ca mix and WSC (water soluble calcium) KNF style...

Two other quick mentions...

As far as stand alone P sources... I have run a few different products through my brewer and nothing gives the results of Calphos... Applications of Calphos tea during stretch almost stops the need for foliar Ca and has benefit of useable P. I don't like SRP because of the Fe, bone meal works but doesn't have the ionic combo.

As far as salts...what options do you have?

On salts and epigentics... IMO We are not going to see a full representation of genetics from salts, ever. All the data that Jidoka spreads around freely is absurdly helpful...but all based on single elements. Once organics is brought into the commercial scale, dialed in and found to be less expensive...salts will be old news.

moose eater · Jun 2, 2018

Maybe it's me, but in the cases of peculiar outcomes, I didn't initially or preemptively toss the genetics, I tossed the nutes. I typically only tossed genetics when it was shown they wouldn't perform in any of my common circumstances.

The ONLY AN products I still have are Grandma Engy's Humic & Golden Goddess Fulvic, and I'm not using them any more, due to other products being available and vouched for.

Though a good part of the reason I had trouble with AN's fert products is made more clear by my recent soil sample; they had ^ K, and so did my mix> train wreck.

jidoka · Jun 2, 2018

Crazy...I am sympathetic to the organic/epigenetic argument. Outdoor I grow in the heaviest soil or straight up in the ground. And as far as getting it dialed that ain’t no thing.

But there are a couple of things “commercial” grows do deal with. One is labor. Potting 600 plants a day 365 is no small thing. Ever try that with an organic mix. Maybe one day that can be solved with machines but the tax laws will have to change for the investment to happen

Second the trend is to extracts with whatever terps you want added.the times they are a changing

jidoka · Jun 2, 2018

Salt to soil transition. Roots got so thick in air pots water took way long to pass through.

Why...just for fun

jidoka · Jun 2, 2018

When you get salts balance close the bro science rules no longer apply. Try this with AN

Badfishy1 · Jun 2, 2018

led05 said:
and then epi-genetics.....

when I've said in the past think about your plants origin, weather, sunlight strength, length etc ---- if a plants origin is generations of closets and it's breeding there long enough, it def has to be considered and focused on, naturally...

anyone ever read the the russian wolf/dog (maybe it was fox?) breeding experiments and how fast the changes occur, it's mind blowing and this is a plant, an annual

It was a Fox. 6 generations. Very interesting

rykus · Jun 3, 2018

Looked like you where in veg feeding the 3.7 before, you holding that strength throughout?

I am in a promix base currently, and have been running about 2-2.5ec in running a feed half feed water kinda schedule... builds up to about 3 ec run out.

You still foliar ca during the cycle?

reppin2c · Jun 3, 2018

growingcrazy said:
Think about all the genetics that got tossed because they didn't grow well on GH 3 part...

That's exactly what I'm saying

Also dont judge me on my father in laws plants...I'm just observing, but kinda proud he isn't push the N

jidoka · Jun 3, 2018

rykus said:
Looked like you where in veg feeding the 3.7 before, you holding that strength throughout?

I am in a promix base currently, and have been running about 2-2.5ec in running a feed half feed water kinda schedule... builds up to about 3 ec run out.

You still foliar ca during the cycle?

Rykus I was in veg with nectar for the gods #4. I probably fed that 4x per day avg. no clue what runoff EC was.

I do it differently. I measure soil ph at the bottom of the pot. When I feed it goes up like this

Then, if it is balanced, it starts falling pretty quick. When it hits .5 I feed again. The nftg stays wet, no wet dry stuff

The entire formula is 4 salts

I had to spray some Ca because of high winds and stupid low humidity. I also use Ferti Nitro some.

I stuck those plants in organic soil yesterday. Not a single problem

reppin2c · Jun 3, 2018

I'm seeing exactly what you are saying. I'm running the same soil in containers and tranzing into amended native on most. Probably didnt feed as heavy. Not the best situation but I know what I'm dealing with and at least they're all the same so I can gauge what is going on. Dont think I'll buy another pallet of notg. Cant someone have a decent starter soil? It would really help me as far as my leach of a FiL. Lmfao. Totally crushed the tranz tonight though. Fuck you juniper midge

growingcrazy · Jun 3, 2018

I wish I knew more about the ins and outs of the soil business... We have an abundance of peat and pine bark around here. I'm just not familiar enough with realistic start-up costs.

Doka, In regards to labor/cost in organic production... In the photo you posted of the veg room with the long trays... A room like that can/has been setup where available canopy space was increased by 25%, labor cut by 15-20 and can be much more depending on the restrictions of the building.

No purchasing new medium
No un-bagging medium
No disposing of bags
No break apart medium
No filling pots
No repotting

No disposing of old medium

Cuts-> Soil Bed -> Harvest

Initial investment is the hitch, which when you really think about it...isn't all that much.

92* last weekend, 59* today...46* tonight. Super.

jidoka · Jun 3, 2018

How long do you veg?

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