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Magnetic or Digital?

GeorgeSmiley

GeorgeSmiley

Remembers
Veteran
i could never run digis here since the datacom/telecom/cable interface is in my new room :D

I can get SS-10 switchables for 130 all day so to pay 300 for 1 1000w ballast is not my thing. I can't hear the ballasts over all the fans anyways. :)
 
T

tokinafaty420

Lazyman said:
Not true, I have no more space for additional lamps, and many can't draw any more power.

On a 16 light setup with all XXXL hoods and digis, I'll be throwing down as many lumens as a 20KW op using Xtrasun hoods and magnetics. In my garden that's about an extra 4-6 pounds per crop for no extra power costs. Efficiency isn't something to scorn is it?
Click to expand...


No, but spending a leg and an arm is something I do scorn. :D

You like digital with vented hoods. I like magnetic with vertical and no hood. I'll still outproduce your hooded lamp any day. :D

*edit* unless of course you go vertical.
 
Lazyman

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
tokinafaty420 said:
No, but spending a leg and an arm is something I do scorn. :D

You like digital with vented hoods. I like magnetic with vertical and no hood. I'll still outproduce your hooded lamp any day. :D

*edit* unless of course you go vertical.
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Ah yes, vert is a granted. Sadly I have a 6' ceiling height so I don't think vert would be worth it, I'd get maybe 2 tiers. However, with vert you can't air cool hoods, so you either need big AC or no CO2. Big AC uses tons of juice, negating part of the vert efficiency. I dunno, I'm sure overall you yield better either way with vert, wish I could do it where I'm building. Sorry all, tangent.


The money savings comes from energy efficiency and increased yields, but comparing vert to flat is apples and oranges.



Redheadfreakin: I measured with a lumen meter, don't have a par meter at my disposal, but it's interesting to hear par wasn't affected as much. What were your figures?
 
toohighmf

toohighmf

Well-known member
Veteran
Bud Bug said:
The worst bulb you could use on a digital ballast. Failure rate is gonna be 70% when you run the Horti on a digital ballast. Plus they wont warranty the bulb.
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That depends on the ballast. Quantums have been rocking 4 grows straight on hortis and they are friggin bright too. in fact hortilux was going to certify Quantum as the recommended ballast to use with their bulbs. somehow Sunpulse got the certification.. quantums are what I'm rockin.
 
GrowerGoneWild

GrowerGoneWild

Active member
Veteran
There are few factors to consider.. just buy one that fits your needs.

My vote is for magnetic.

- I use hortilux, Its most compatible with magnetic ballasts.
- Price, Its cheaper.. I wire it myself save a few hundred bucks.
- More compatible with generator power. Generators fuck up electronics in a bad way.
- Durable. I was using a mag ballast that was 10 years old, with new bulbs and I was still getting a typical .8 Grams per Watt.

I'm not so close minded as not to use digitals, its just not for me at this point in time.
But what works for me might not work for you.
 
T

tokinafaty420

Bud Bug said:
The worst bulb you could use on a digital ballast. Failure rate is gonna be 70% when you run the Horti on a digital ballast. Plus they wont warranty the bulb.
Click to expand...

I never said to use it in a digital. lol Read my post again. :)
 
T

tokinafaty420

Lazyman said:
Ah yes, vert is a granted. Sadly I have a 6' ceiling height so I don't think vert would be worth it, I'd get maybe 2 tiers. However, with vert you can't air cool hoods, so you either need big AC or no CO2. Big AC uses tons of juice, negating part of the vert efficiency. I dunno, I'm sure overall you yield better either way with vert, wish I could do it where I'm building. Sorry all, tangent.


The money savings comes from energy efficiency and increased yields, but comparing vert to flat is apples and oranges.



Redheadfreakin: I measured with a lumen meter, don't have a par meter at my disposal, but it's interesting to hear par wasn't affected as much. What were your figures?
Click to expand...


My original post was based around using vert. Notice my price never included a hood.

Going with hooded 1000w magnetic your looking at about $250-$280. Still cheaper than digital though.
 
Lazyman

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
toohighmf said:
That depends on the ballast. Quantums have been rocking 4 grows straight on hortis and they are friggin bright too. in fact hortilux was going to certify Quantum as the recommended ballast to use with their bulbs. somehow Sunpulse got the certification.. quantums are what I'm rockin.
Click to expand...

That's funny, I blew all 8 of my hortilux bulbs within 2 months of putting them on my Quantums, they did fine on magnetics though. I've heard lots of conflicting stories on that, Headiez had good luck with the Hortis on digis too, but perhaps my power line was just being stretched too thin.
 
Lazyman

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
redheadfreakin said:
Lumens are for people, PAR is for plants.
Measurements were always within +/- 3% μmol/m2s.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know, just most folks have access to a lumen or f/c meter, but not a par meter. Hard to make comparisons with your peers using different measurements.

Don't you find it odd that lumens would be increased so much, but par isn't? Why do you think a ballast would increase one but not the other? I'm just trying to figure out a logical reason for it.
 
NiteTiger

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
I use magnetics over digitals for a few reasons. The RF noise reports are one, but a fairly minor one, since it can be solved with a Faraday cage. My main reason is this:

Lumatek Digi 1kw - $400
1000w Magnetic - $110

Initial cost difference- $290

1kw Magnetic costs me $25 a month to run. So with the much vaunted 10% effeciency savings, I would save $2.50. So, just to break even on the initial investment takes 116 months of operation, or just shy of ten years.

On top of that, if the magnetic malfunctions, I can buy parts to repair it locally (cap is the worst offender, around $35 to replace). Digitals are solid state, can't repair that yourself or locally in most cases. So you're looking at a local exchange, or worse yet, having to send it off for replacement/repair.

Or I can completely replace the whole magnetic ballast twice, and still be under the initial investment on the digi.

Also, please keep in mind that it is not going to change your amperage on the circuit you are using. 1000w is a 1000w, whether digital or magnetic, so it won't help you save amperage.

Off topic: Regarding the vert discussion - You can indeed air cool a vert, and you do not need to do a multi row colosseum style to benefit from vertical growing.



 
Lazyman

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
Man, if you're paying $400 for a 1000w ballast I hope it's not in USD! I pay around $265 US for galaxy or Quantums, so the ROI is much shorter. The digitals also put out less heat and are dimmable, perfect for new transplants or clones, or hot days.

I ran magnetics for years, and yes they are cheap and reliable. But IMHO that's where their benefits leave off and digitals begin. And I love to argue, sorry guys!
 
NiteTiger

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
I love to debate too! A calm, rational debate is the best tool for learning in my opinion :yes:

Now, regarding the price, in the interest of full disclosure, I did not price shop on the Lumatek. However, even @ $265, you're still talking about 5 years ROI. From what I've seen, a vast majority of digis are not running 5 years problem free, much less 10.

Now, let's take the initial investment out of the equation. Assuming a problem with the light, you have to send it off, or exchange it at the store, if that's even possible. Just in shipping, you're lookking at a week out of service. How much is a week of growth worth? Especially mid-flower.

You're quick to chalk off the affordability and dependability, but that truly is what sets the magnetic above the digital.
 
BerndV

BerndV

Member
On my last round of ballast buying about six months ago, I really wanted to go digital. However, the biggest drawback for me was the incompatibility with Hortilux bulbs, which happen to be my preference. Throw in the extra $$$ and I simply couldn't justify the digitals. I went with 5 switchable 1000w Sun System Harvest Pro Elites @ $159.00 each at my local grow shop. The complete separation between the ignitor/capacitor compartment and the magnetic core really keeps things cool where it needs to be, especially when hung vertically by the handle with the hot side above. Beyond ignitor/capacitor life, the heat is only an issue if your ballasts are located within your grow room (mine are not). They are also super easy to service if the need arises.

What is needed are ASTM standards that give the consumer confidence that problems won't arise when bulbs and electronic/digital ballasts are mixed and matched. Eventually, the bulb and ballast manufacturers will get together and agree on these standards. Then I will feel confident about going digital. Plus, the digitals will eventually become much cheaper (think of DVD players), probably less than magnetics at some point.
 
D

DankSide

Member
All depends.

If you're trying to keep it hush and growing at your residence with just a 1000watter I would do digital, just to keep efficiency as high as possible and that damn "hummmmmmm" down.

RFI was taken care of last I heard and if you're scared you can buy some ferrite clamps.

If you were doing a larger, more commercial room I could see why people would recommend magnetic ballasts. Mags are cheaper, durable and the hum is drowned out in a large grow by the fans.

But you're doing a single 1000watter and there's just something more appealing to me about a steady stream of light vs a rapidly flickering light.

Did you guys talk frequency yet? Do you think the difference in that is as negligible as the PAR difference?

Something about Digis puts that light out at a higher speed.
 
NiteTiger

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
Lazyman said:
The digitals also put out less heat and are dimmable, perfect for new transplants or clones, or hot days.
Click to expand...

Forgot to address this.

You're referring to the ballast putting off less heat, right? The bulb in the growroom is giving off the same heat regardless of digi or mag, so I want to make sure others are reading this right.
 
NiteTiger

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
DankSide said:
All depends.

If you're trying to keep it hush and growing at your residence with just a 1000watter I would do digital, just to keep efficiency as high as possible and that damn "hummmmmmm" down.

RFI was taken care of last I heard and if you're scared you can buy some ferrite clamps.

If you were doing a larger, more commercial room I could see why people would recommend magnetic ballasts. Mags are cheaper, durable and the hum is drowned out in a large grow by the fans.

But you're doing a single 1000watter and there's just something more appealing to me about a steady stream of light vs a rapidly flickering light.

Did you guys talk frequency yet? Do you think the difference in that is as negligible as the PAR difference?

Something about Digis puts that light out at a higher speed.
Click to expand...

The hum on a mag ballast can be taken care of just as easily, if not easier, than the RF interference from a digi, and it really isn't that prevalent in any event. I've run 1kw grows with people regularly passing within 5 ft of the grow, and the hum was no issue at all.

And are you saying digi manufacturers have developed faster than light technology?!:yoinks: Light speed is light speed man :D
 
D

DankSide

Member
The hum on a mag ballast can be taken care of just as easily, if not easier, than the RF interference from a digi, and it really isn't that prevalent in any event. I've run 1kw grows with people regularly passing within 5 ft of the grow, and the hum was no issue at all.

And are you saying digi manufacturers have developed faster than light technology?! Light speed is light speed man
Click to expand...


Fair enough, guess at the end of the day it comes down to personal pref.

hahaha yah I was thinking these digis were equipped with the new-age flux capacitor, are they not?
What I was trying to make mention of is if you record a mag ballast with a camera you will be seeing waves of light on the feed - A digi comes up on video with no pulsing effect, so I was wondering if that meant the digi is making the bulb fire at a higher frequency. If it is then I'd say it contributes to efficiency, big question is how much?
 
NiteTiger

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
Set your grow to warp speed! :biglaugh:

I think what you're noticing is probably related to the efficiency. Solid state means less energy lost to conversion, which is where the efficiency comes in. It also allows for a smoother power flow, which will affect the pulsing effect you're talking about.

But when it comes down to it, the same amount of light is being delivered either way. Like you said, a lot of it is personal preference.
 
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