Yellowing with necrotic spots! Full details & pics

Hey everyone, all my plants are starting to show some bad signs. The first thing I noticed was pale color, and pale yellow veins, and purple stems. The oldest leaves, starting with the petryols (sp?) started to yellow and wilt, then small gray blotches began appearing, towards the base of the leaf. The tips of the leaves turned down, but no brown or burning on any leaf margin. The yellowing continued, and the gray dead looking splotches grew. I suspected N deficiency, and have given them one feeding of Grow Big, and green seems to be spreading across the less effected leaves, from the stem out. On two plants, however, the bottom leaves did not make progress, and were very damaged, and removed. Here's full details, pics to follow.

SOIL:


How long has this problem been going on? Approximately one week
What STRAIN are you growing? Big Bud, Mexican bagseed
What was the establishing technique? seed
What is the age of your plants? 26-30 days. the older ones are showing problem signs much more than the younger.
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? Since seed
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before? Same soil
How Tall are the plants? Approx. 6-8 inches
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Somewhere between seedling and veg.
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) LST on one
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) Red party cups, 1 plant per
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) FF Happy Frog, 50% perlite
What brand Nutrient's are you using? Fox Farms Big Bud, Grow Big, and Superthrive
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? 1/4 strength Big Bloom with a drop or so of superthrive, they have had one feeding of 1/2 strength Grow Big
How often are you feeding? Every other watering
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) No particular order
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? No meter
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? Will test tonight at watering.
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS? Never
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? General Hydroponics liquid test kit
How often are you watering? I had an overwatering problem earlier in their life, I have cut down to 3-4 days between watering.
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? Last feeding was 2 days ago, feeding every other watering
What size bulb are you using? 150W HPS
How old is your bulbs? Almost brand new
What is the distance to the canopy? ~20"
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) ~45%
What is the canopy temperature? 73-78* F
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 70-72 at coldest, 78-79 at highest.
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) ~130 CFM
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? Ventilation running constantly, 2x 4.5" intakes, one 4.5" exhaust. HPS is cool tubed
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? No
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? It was earlier in their life, I am better at watering now.
Is your water HARD or SOFT? Hard
What water are you using? Tap in the beginning, switched to bottled last watering.
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen) no pen
Are you using water from a water softener? No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? No
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? Garden Safe brand Insecticidal Soap, used once when I saw a gnat in the box and got paranoid.
Are plant's infected with pest's? Not that I can tell. I check undersides of effected leaves every check-up, and stare in to soil searching for movement. Nothing detected but the occasional lost ant.


These pics were all taken at the same time, about 2 days ago, but show various levels of damage.

This leaf was on a plant effected by what I believe was overwatering. It was warped already, but the discoloration and splotches are new.



Yellowing has progressed, and gray/brown splotches began to appear.


Damage growing on leaf surface.


Finally, browning and wilting of entire leaf. The two bottom leaves, last night, were very damaged, and came off the plant when I gently tugged them.


This problem is virtually the same in all of my plants, in varying stages because they sprouted in stages a couple days away from each other.

Thanks in advance for any advice you fine folks can provide. It may just be a N deficiency that I caught too late, I will say that new growth is looking vibrant and green since the Grow Big feeding, and I know things are not instant in soil, I am just looking for as much input as I can get.

Thanks!

This problem is virtually the same in all of my plants, in varying stages because they sprouted in stages a couple days away from each other.

this is almost always an indicator that you are doing something wrong!

I dont like doing this. But i told you so homie.

WAY TOO YOUNG FOR FERTS!!!


start flushing with water to leech out the remainder of the grow that you stuffed in there. You do not need to add ferts until its absolutly neccesary.

just water them when they need it otherwise sit back and let them grow.

Hey hazy dreams, thanks for the reply!
I know I probably sound like an asshole, but I'm just not sure if that's the problem. I have only fed once with just the Superthrive and Big Bloom, 1/4 strength, and once with Superthrive, big bloom 1/4 strength and grow big 1/2 strength. They seem to have improved overall with the Grow big addition.

this is almost always an indicator that you are doing something wrong!

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Couldn't this also mean that the older ones have used up the N in the soil and are therefore showing more signs of damage, while the younger ones still have some N in the soil, so are only showing beginning signs? I was under the impression that nutrient toxicity showed signs on the tips of the leaves first, the tips of mine are more or less undamaged. I could be completely wrong, I am just trying to absorb as much of other's experience and my own research and apply it to what I am seeing.

Trust me, I am not trying to disagree because I am a noob and want to force feed nutrients really bad, I just want the best for my plants and want to get as much information as I can before I do something high-stress like flushing. I really appreciate you're trying to help.

Edit: I just checked the FF fert schedule, and they have Grow Big starting at week 2, but obviously they want you to use as much of their product as you can, so I am really not sure what to think at this point.

You DO NOT have a deficiency.

Fox farm soil has enough nutes for two weeks straight from the bag....

Fox farm soil has enough nutes for two weeks straight from the bag....

So if overfertilizing was the issue, should I leach the soil, transplant to bigger, fresh pots, both? Thank you guys for the help.

AsbestosToast said:

Hey hazy dreams, thanks for the reply!
I know I probably sound like an asshole, but I'm just not sure if that's the problem. I have only fed once with just the Superthrive and Big Bloom, 1/4 strength, and once with Superthrive, big bloom 1/4 strength and grow big 1/2 strength. They seem to have improved overall with the Grow big addition.

Couldn't this also mean that the older ones have used up the N in the soil and are therefore showing more signs of damage, while the younger ones still have some N in the soil, so are only showing beginning signs? I was under the impression that nutrient toxicity showed signs on the tips of the leaves first, the tips of mine are more or less undamaged. I could be completely wrong, I am just trying to absorb as much of other's experience and my own research and apply it to what I am seeing.

Trust me, I am not trying to disagree because I am a noob and want to force feed nutrients really bad, I just want the best for my plants and want to get as much information as I can before I do something high-stress like flushing. I really appreciate you're trying to help.

Edit: I just checked the FF fert schedule, and they have Grow Big starting at week 2, but obviously they want you to use as much of their product as you can, so I am really not sure what to think at this point.

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Ok. flushing is not high stress at all. Just water with 2-3 times the normal amount (ph your water for the flush) and make sure you get a shit load of run off. it WILL NOT HELP to transplant as the salts of the nutrients are locked up in the root balls and will continue to poison your plants. Flush and wait and see if they spring back. if it looks like the burn is still progressing after a few days flush again.

Your problem is noob related. Just because Grow big is like .8-.1-.5 or what ever it is ins't taking into account you are ADDING THIS PERCENTAGE on top of soil that already has nutrients in it. this is a major problem. and will kill your plants in short order. happy frog will grow them up to two feet in a 8 inch pot with NO FERTS ADDED!! this is how i keep my moms and it works like gang busters EVERYTIME.

You want great advice here it is. Throw your nutrients and superthrive (aka monkey juice) in a cabinet and lock it. then throw away the key until the plants are transplanted into 6 inch pots, thriving and starting to turn pale green. Then add extra nitrogen via grow big. you shouldnt be touching ferts for the first three to 4 weeks of those seedlings lives. there is PLENTY in happy frog to get the job done proper.

i hope you take this advice. those seedlings dont stand a chance if you keep throwing ferts at them like they are 5 foot trees.

I've had similar goings on this grow, after leaching etc i have tracked it down to the little flies in my room, i have fungus gnats or something similar,never had them before, i thought it was my feeding regime but now know it was the pests, half way through flower and one has stressed so much a few nanners have appeared and all the pistils are browning(at 4.5 weeks), i am putting this down to the pests though i will reveg just to check i havent got a really early finishing pheno.Anyway i suggest checking for pests as i overlooked this having never had them before.

Alright guys, I flushed all of the plants yesterday. here is what they looked like after a full day of light.

my Big bud

leaf closeup


Mexican bagseed

leaf 1, same leaf as the second pic in my original post.

other leaf


I know things might take as long as a week to show any progress, any thougts?

i say transplant from those cups

high pH for sure.
Flushing is a wives tales and can do way more harm than good by burning your plant to death.
If you flush you need neutral pH water, otherwise you'll kill your baby.
be careful.

Tr33 said:

high pH for sure.
Flushing is a wives tales and can do way more harm than good by burning your plant to death.
If you flush you need neutral pH water, otherwise you'll kill your baby.
be careful.

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What kind of Bs are you spreading ?
flushing a plant will burn them ????
next you will be saying its root aphids !!!
if you don't know don't tell please !

huge is right go for the transplant and start feeding 5mls to a gal grow big then raise it each week
she will be fine

Yeah... What he said^^^

Thanks you guys, I'll be transplanting later tonight in to 6" pots with FF OF.
I bought an inexpensive pH/moisture probe and it read a pretty constant 6.8-7 pH range, so I don't think that's the problem.

Alright guys the ladies have been transplanted almost 24 hours ago and they are looking very good. The browning does not seem to have progressed, and they seem to be growing more. Since I transplanted in to Ocean Forest soil, which I have read everywhere is hot, should I wait to start feeding them? Thanks for all the help everyone!

Bro those plants are rootbound...transplant them in the bigger cup or pot....you will see

They look underfed. Isn't just a root bound problem, but no doubt a transplant will help. Keep your watering in check.

bad advice fairy is floating around again. root bound? really? at like 22 days from seed in a solo cup. dude not even close. UNDERFED??? even worse advice.

leave them in the FFOF and just water them for the next week or soo. the OF is hot. it wont burn them but dont go adding anything until they get established and accustom to the new digs. they will take off fairly quickly after getting over the previous stress. no ferts until everything is green and copasectic again.

Just water for a week or two. FF is great and has everything your plants need for up to a month. Root bound? Are you smoking crack. That plant is barley surviving let along growing enough roots to become root bound? Horrible advice. For the record I have grown plants 18"tall in red keg cups.

Keep watering with ph'ed water and no nutes for at least a week. Don't transplant until plant starts to grow again. Biggest mistake everybody makes is put clones in hot soil and then feed them. Way too much nutes for a young plant.

I encourage people to grow a plant and not feed it. It takes a month before any real damage is done. However, if you over feed damage can happen the first day.