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Growing in Coco 10 years. Lost my way

siftedunity

cant re Member
Veteran
Hey, I'm just about at breaking point with my issue. So really help some pros can help me out. Is hard to even ask for help but I'm fed up now.

I hate posting here and I'm a stubborn fool but I can't figure this issue out. I've got that stubborn don't need help shit going on but I give up now.

OK.. Long time Coco grower.. 10 years ish.
Always used advanced nutes. Sensi bloom.
Plants in veg are epic. No problem.

Get them into flower,
2ml a + b sensi bloom litre and 2ml per litre bigbud bud. That's it. This was golden for years. Never changed a thing used to water with no run off and prob water 1 or two times a day. No issues.
Only tap water that sits at 100-200ppm.

OK so around autumn 2016 I started getting Nitrogen toxicity. The clawing and deep green leaves. That grow and the next I backed the feed right down to 400ppm just to get them through. But of course the low feeding just fucked them up more.
This went on for 4 runs. Pretty much yield dropped off about 35% maybe more.

So fast forward to now. Switched to the Coco version as it's lower in Nitrogen. Then feed at
1.6 ml per litre a (*the Nitrogen is in the a)
and 2ml per litre b.
2ml per litre bigbud.
0.5ml per litre cal mag
PH 5.8/5.9
Total ppm 400/500 ppm (x500 scale) so ec is
0.8 to 1.
Roots: pearly white and thick root mass. The roots are perfect.
Watering with slight run off now.

Just tested the run off of one plant with the clawing and ph was ph 5.4 and the ec has doubled so coming out the bottom of the pot at 700/800 ppm.
And still getting the Nutrient burn/Nitrogen toxicity.
2nd week in flower. I know it's gonna fuck up my yield again when I can't afford to have another shit run. The finished bud is good but obviously could be better.
Oh using canna professional Coco in 6.5 litre pots. Plants are like 3ft tall and bushy.

I did even switch to the canna coco a +b for a run at 2ml per litre and had the same problem and my heart just sank. Idk what to do anymore.

So feeding at 400/500ppm
Sensi bloom a + b = 1.6ml A, 2ml B per litre
Big bud right now 2ml per litre
Cal mag 0.5ml per litre
Canna coco bagged
6.5 litre pots
Watering till run off one or two times daily..

Ppm in 400/500
Ppm runoff 700/800

Ph in 5.8/5.9
Ph runoff 5.4.
Plant heath apart from the toxicity is great. Thick stems etc. Perfect roots. New growth (leaves) n toxic and dark green and clawing.
 

siftedunity

cant re Member
Veteran
Htf can you get clawing and toxicity at 400ppm??
Why is it doubling in the run off.
runoff collected after feeding the regular feed BTW.
Crazy. Ph is on point. Root mass is on point. Runoff check. PH check. Ppm check. Room temp 26c/78.8f lights on 20c/68f lights off check. Air movement great check. No bugs at all check. Lighting good check. Change of location half way in between these issues check but same shit continues check. :-(
 

OG_NoMan

Not Veteran
Maybe your municipal tap water changed sources throwing your nutrient profile? Maybe up feedings to keep salts from building to 7-800 ppm. Not experienced enough to really help but this is what i would try. Good luck.
 

siftedunity

cant re Member
Veteran
I have thought that the water my have changed sources.
But cannot confirm that.
And yes I could up feedings but any more runoff and they will be too wet all day and night. Thank you for your input though my friend
 

Bush Dr

Painting the picture of Dorian Gray
Veteran
Tap water is constantly changing, lots of reasons

Change to Canna nutes

I used Plant Magic for years and had issues similar to you, swapping nutes seems to have solved it
 

hazyfontazy

Active member
Veteran
its probably the water ,,i been having same issues but mag deficency, 2nd week into flower and not able to correct it ,,yield have gone down crazily ,,,pulled me hair out ,blamed everything ,changed everything ,last resort blame the water ,it reeks of chlorine ,the tap water has to many bicarbs and sodium in it ,this causes lots of lockups ,tried using calmag but made it worse ,,tried flushing made it worse , so i mixed half brita filtered and half bottled spring ,,its solved the issue for me
 

siftedunity

cant re Member
Veteran
Tap water is constantly changing, lots of reasons

Change to Canna nutes

I used Plant Magic for years and had issues similar to you, swapping nutes seems to have solved it

Thank you for your input. Much appreciated. Can change to canna but why will that solve the issue? I will try it if it works out
 

siftedunity

cant re Member
Veteran
its probably the water ,,i been having same issues but mag deficency, 2nd week into flower and not able to correct it ,,yield have gone down crazily ,,,pulled me hair out ,blamed everything ,changed everything ,last resort blame the water ,it reeks of chlorine ,the tap water has to many bicarbs and sodium in it ,this causes lots of lockups ,tried using calmag but made it worse ,,tried flushing made it worse , so i mixed half brita filtered and half bottled spring ,,its solved the issue for me

Man I feel your pain.. Sorry to hear about you issues but I'm glad to feel it isn't just me. Problem is by about 4 or 5 weeks in they just seem to get on with it and Finnish. But by that time the damage is done. In the case of nitrogen toxicity the plants stretch but the stem in between doesn't fill up with bud tissue. So it kills the yield. I even had calcium deficiency too at the start. Hence why I added the calcium at 0.5 ml per litre. That was solved. Then back again to the n toxicity. Tbh I took for granted how I used to be able to run a line of nutrients with no issues. Seriously considering to switch to Ro water. Its the only thing I've not changed is the water..
 

hazyfontazy

Active member
Veteran
Thank you for your input. Much appreciated. Can change to canna but why will that solve the issue? I will try it if it works out

i changed from canna to house and garden to vita to bcuzz to ionic back to vita,,don't matter what i used same thing happened :(
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I too lean towards your source water as the issue. Try a 50/50 tap/ro perhaps?

Up here the water is very clean but with soil erosion, turbidity (large particles carried by water force, not dissolved solids) increases and you can smell the chlorine when it rains. Arbitrary turbidity caps (in other areas up to 5 NTU, here 1 NTU) mean lots of chlorine and frequent boil water advisories.

Poorly filtered well water abounds, bringing a range of issues.
 

rjrom90

Active member
Can you get access to a local water test report? Could be excess N in your tap water from agricultural runoff.
 

Bush Dr

Painting the picture of Dorian Gray
Veteran
Thank you for your input. Much appreciated. Can change to canna but why will that solve the issue? I will try it if it works out

I have no idea why but it stopped the problem I had, I just use the whole canna range, well A&B, Boost and P/K, with some B'Cuzz bloom stim

Tried using molasses and the Rez turned cloudy, also tried using medical grade Citric acid and got strings of slime, so I just use what they say, the coco and nutes were designed to be used together and winging it doesn't seem to work, have say getting some excellent results

As for tap water, if the nearby water mains have been worked on then it's standard practice to flush the main with a variety of chemicals any of which can kill your plants instantly ...then there's defective dosing stations and just plain stupid behaviour like the accidental dumping of aluminium sulphate in the water supply to a city in the UK

I always taste the water before adding it to the res, also smell it .... Having said that I've only had 4 instances in 25+ yrs of contamination
 

dansbuds

Retired from the workforce Bullshit
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Thank you for your input. Much appreciated. Can change to canna but why will that solve the issue? I will try it if it works out


because canna coco nutes are formulated for tap water & have lower levels of the NCM in them.

if it were me ..... i'd invest in a good RO system & use only that . that takes out any of the variables that might change in the tap water . its worked for years for me ! :tiphat:
 
Do you ever try flushing your pots with a high volume of low level nutrient solution? Have you ever tried using drip clean?
Aside from those two little nuggets I'd say go with ro water. Maybe do a side by side with some ro water and see if there is a difference.
 

siftedunity

cant re Member
Veteran
I too lean towards your source water as the issue. Try a 50/50 tap/ro perhaps?

Up here the water is very clean but with soil erosion, turbidity (large particles carried by water force, not dissolved solids) increases and you can smell the chlorine when it rains. Arbitrary turbidity caps (in other areas up to 5 NTU, here 1 NTU) mean lots of chlorine and frequent boil water advisories.

Poorly filtered well water abounds, bringing a range of issues.
Tbh it's quite likely that the treatment has changed. I'm not sure if the water source has. Tbh the water here sometimes gives me a sore throat so I won't drink it. And sometimes smells of chlorine. And I have changed grow spots over this time but the water is still provided by the same company and source. I've checked the website at their own tests of the water but they don't test for magnesium which seems odd. I rung them before and they just don't test for it. Plenty of contamination of other kinds but I'm no guru with water quality so I don't have a clue which contaminant/s would effect my nutrients.
 

siftedunity

cant re Member
Veteran
i changed from canna to house and garden to vita to bcuzz to ionic back to vita,,don't matter what i used same thing happened :(
Yes man kinda done the same. Run canna for the first few weeks and low and behold got the same shit again. Don't suppose you live in the southeast? This is where my water is sourced.

i mix brita tap with ashbeck spring from tesco £1.10 5 litre 0.ec ph7 ,,i will be getting an ro filter

That's quite a good fix but I'm feeding a 25 litre daily so it would cost me a fortune and will need to buy 5 x 5 liter bottles a day.
:tiphat:
 

siftedunity

cant re Member
Veteran
Can you get access to a local water test report? Could be excess N in your tap water from agricultural runoff.

Quite possible I will check the website again. this has been an issue for a long time so I doubt it's a one off contamination. Will defo read their own water analysis again. Thanks
 

siftedunity

cant re Member
Veteran
I have no idea why but it stopped the problem I had, I just use the whole canna range, well A&B, Boost and P/K, with some B'Cuzz bloom stim

Tried using molasses and the Rez turned cloudy, also tried using medical grade Citric acid and got strings of slime, so I just use what they say, the coco and nutes were designed to be used together and winging it doesn't seem to work, have say getting some excellent results

As for tap water, if the nearby water mains have been worked on then it's standard practice to flush the main with a variety of chemicals any of which can kill your plants instantly ...then there's defective dosing stations and just plain stupid behaviour like the accidental dumping of aluminium sulphate in the water supply to a city in the UK

I always taste the water before adding it to the res, also smell it .... Having said that I've only had 4 instances in 25+ yrs of contamination
Hello man, I appreciate the reply.. I did switch to canna for one run. That was just the Coco a&b and the boost. Same issues occurred about two weeks in so dropped it and when back to the regular feeds. Probably could have sat it out but didn't see the point since the issue was the same. That's with 2ml per litre a and then the same of the b and I think 2ml per litre off the boost too.
However this run have switched to the Coco friendly sensi bloom. Same issue. So eve Coco specific nuts don't seem to make a difference
 

mushroombrew

Active member
Veteran
Get a chlorine test strip. Check how many ppm's are in your tap water. If it hurts your throat it may be high? Pool test strips are fine.

Just wanted to mention Chloride toxicity. It makes plants super dark green. I have a hard time believing it's N toxicity at your ppm's. I suppose the coco could hold onto it if you overfeed N throughout veg? But unlikely. Plants use way less chloride in flower so maybe why the toxicity manifests.

How do you measure pH? How often do you calibrate?
 
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