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How to maintain container soil

DTOM420

Member
So, I just wound up my first grow (outdoors) and I’m wondering what’s the best way to maintain the soil I have in those 12 grow bags?

I jumped back into growing after a 25+ year sabbatical late last summer. When I did, I followed my method from the late 80’s/early 90’s of mixing some more premium potting soil like FFOF, Happy Frog and Promix with some perlite, more Canadian peat moss, various composts and a variety of amendments like EWC, bone meal, blood meal, lime, rock phosphate, guanos, etc. Then I started reading up online and started learning about all the things that have been discovered and publicized since 1992, when all I had was Rosenthal’s original book and some tattered copies of high times! Lol! Well, I did alright for a first grow (autos only) and I’ve worked to grow some microbial life in that soul and I’d like to keep it alive and try to improve it for next spring. So, I’m wondering what to do with it?

Should I plant something like green manure in them and keep them watered all winter or maybe I should buy some large totes and combine them into 3-4 totes? Should I add additional amendments (for the next grow, starting April 1) and let it all stew until next season or wait until it gets closer? Sure would appreciate any advice I can get.

FWIW- We will only get 2-3 weeks of freezing temps during our winter, if that much. We have a pretty mind “winter” and don’t get snow.
 

Streft

Member
I would dump them out add amendments mix and let it go compost pile for the winter. If that isn't an option I'd go with the big totes. Either way I would amend the soil now and let it go. Best of luck!
 

DTOM420

Member
I would dump them out add amendments mix and let it go compost pile for the winter. If that isn't an option I'd go with the big totes. Either way I would amend the soil now and let it go. Best of luck!

That’s certainly an option. Thanks for the advice! Only reason I thought about totes was to keep it clean - keep our dogs and cats and wild critters from getting into it. But, I’ll prolly do just what you said.
 

bigbadbiddy

Active member
Could also cover it with a tarp, should be fine as well (if the tarp is fixed somehow and doesn't get blown away by wind or pulled away by critters).


You want to keep the soil alive which means it can't dry out or freeze solid.


The drying out part can easily be ensured by leaving the tarp and leaving the soil uncovered, rain should do its thang. Just in case you could check it in between and water a bit if you feel the need.


I would also sow some clover or other cover crop over the soil pile, this should aid in keeping it alive.


The freezing through part is what would worry me the most when leaving it outdoors. Which is why I would bring it into a shed or garage or something, instead of leaving it outside.



Keeping it in totes and covering it up, possibly with a thick layer of leafs or so, could be enough to avoid it freezing through in the winter as well. Depending on how it is covered up (tarp or leafs etc.) you might have to make sure it doesn't dry out by hand after all. If a cover of leafs will be enough to not make it freeze, then rain might be enough to ensure it doesn't dry out after all.
 

Creeperpark

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
feed your mix

feed your mix

If your pile isn't shrinking with time, then you may need to add N to heat it up. You have to feed the microbes a little during winter. Here are some good sources of N., blood meal, fish emulsion, crab meal, alfalfa meal, soybean meal, or where I am I use finely shredded grass clippings. However my favorite is poultry manure because its fast and cheap! 50 lbs for $20.00. Just takes a small amount. Also, I found that turning your mix is a must every chance you get through out the winter! When next spring is here you will be setting in high cotton!
 

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I did not notice if you said what size your containers are. If they are large, you do not need to do anything at all. Freezing does NOT kill off your microbial life if the containers are deep enough. This is how indigenous microbes populate.

If you are growing outside, why not use raised beds? This is the best way. We did this for 15 years and only topdressed organic matter in fall and spring. We had red clover naturally growing on the beds. Frames were built over top to support tarps for light exclusion for early flowering. We also used the frames to support an irrigation system.

picture.php
 

wetdog

New member
THAT ^^^

I just leave everything outside, containers and all. The microbes at most just go dormant, they don't die. I'm in zone 7a with some snow and hard freezes but seldom lasting more than a few days. The "frosty morn" is more the norm here and it sounds like you are further south than I am in SC.

For cover crops and such, windblown seeds take care of that and are native to the area. But everything gets knocked down when temps get into the teens for a few days in Jan and everything goes fully dormant.

I'll do some top dressing on the raised beds in the fall, mainly slow release stuff like minerals. Nothing for the containers. My main prefrence is to do top dressing and reamending in very early spring (middle of March), when warm weather is on the way but not quite here yet. About the same time you're starting seeds indoors.

Hope this helps some.

Wet
 

CrushnYuba

Well-known member
Cover crops are great and it will keep the nitrogen cycling ( Google nitrogen cycle).
Rage that cover crop all winter if your climate allows it. Legumes with Nitrogen fixing bacteria, don't actually start fixing nitrogen from the atmosphere until all the left over soil N is used. Legumes are lazy. You can also buy bails of alfalfa and till it a few times of year. That way you are only adding N.

I don't add the amendments other then green manure until spring so water soluble nutes don't get washed out. Something like chicken manure that has water soluble n- p and k will get wasted of added in the fall and rained on. Even slow break down nutes should be added later so it breaks down during your grow and makes it through the year. I don't know how big your containers are but if it's anywhere close to what it should be for outdoor, i can't see how bringing it inside would help or would even be doable. You can compost right in that container.
Think about how your soil was last year. Do you want to add more volume to your soil? Do you want to change some properties? Want it to drain more? Hold more water? Hold more air? Allot of those larger soil particals break down to smaller particals and the texture changes. I add volume and correct texture over winter.
 

wetdog

New member
My "THAT^^" was directed to Microbemans post above StPhatty's, although everything already has worms from the homegrown VC I also use.

Wet
 

DTOM420

Member
I did not notice if you said what size your containers are. If they are large, you do not need to do anything at all. Freezing does NOT kill off your microbial life if the containers are deep enough. This is how indigenous microbes populate.

If you are growing outside, why not use raised beds? This is the best way. We did this for 15 years and only topdressed organic matter in fall and spring. We had red clover naturally growing on the beds. Frames were built over top to support tarps for light exclusion for early flowering. We also used the frames to support an irrigation system.

View Image

They're just 10 gallon and 15 gallon bags right now. I am working on some in-ground beds and some large (200 gallon) bags for next my photos next spring. I'm going to starting another thread to ask for help with them but I am going to wait until I get back soil test results on my native soil. I was thinking about re-using this container soil for my outdoor auto flower garden since the autos don't need large containers.Those 10 & 15's are too small to leave as-is with a clover mix growing on top, I'm guessing?

I hadn't thought about building a framework like that before but it would sure be pretty handy! I'll think about it, for sure. My only hesitation is that it might draw more attention from above than I want. However, since we deal with extreme heat here in the summer, it'd be a way to put up some shade cloth that would also serve to obscure my plants; and I could hang some misters to help with the low humidity and the heat. Hrmmmm. Lots to think about! How tall are yours? We have a very long growing season here (basically we can grow from April 1 to late November without ANY risk of frost) and plants could get very large. I'm wondering how tall I'd have to make the frame and whether using one would really limit my plant size? Some strains claim they can reach 250cm+ and that's like 8'-9'+!
 

DTOM420

Member
If your pile isn't shrinking with time, then you may need to add N to heat it up. You have to feed the microbes a little during winter. Here are some good sources of N., blood meal, fish emulsion, crab meal, alfalfa meal, soybean meal, or where I am I use finely shredded grass clippings. However my favorite is poultry manure because its fast and cheap! 50 lbs for $20.00. Just takes a small amount. Also, I found that turning your mix is a must every chance you get through out the winter! When next spring is here you will be setting in high cotton!

Luckily, chicken, horse and cow manure is free, for me. Well, I wouldn't call it "free" because it feels like they eat me out of house and home, sometimes. Lol! But their poo doesn't cost me extra and I am composting it all. Separately, of course!
 

DTOM420

Member
Thanks to EVERYBODY that replied! Lots of great suggestions

Cover crops are great and it will keep the nitrogen cycling ( Google nitrogen cycle).
Rage that cover crop all winter if your climate allows it. Legumes with Nitrogen fixing bacteria, don't actually start fixing nitrogen from the atmosphere until all the left over soil N is used. Legumes are lazy. You can also buy bails of alfalfa and till it a few times of year. That way you are only adding N.

I don't add the amendments other then green manure until spring so water soluble nutes don't get washed out. Something like chicken manure that has water soluble n- p and k will get wasted of added in the fall and rained on. Even slow break down nutes should be added later so it breaks down during your grow and makes it through the year. I don't know how big your containers are but if it's anywhere close to what it should be for outdoor, i can't see how bringing it inside would help or would even be doable. You can compost right in that container.
Think about how your soil was last year. Do you want to add more volume to your soil? Do you want to change some properties? Want it to drain more? Hold more water? Hold more air? Allot of those larger soil particals break down to smaller particals and the texture changes. I add volume and correct texture over winter.

When I said I was thinking about putting it in containers, I didn't mean I was going to bring it indoors. I was going to leave it outdoors, for sure. I just wasn't sure about leaving it on the ground because we have lots of termites in the soil here and I wasn't sure about giving them access to the unbroken down 'browns' in the compost mixed in. To keep it kinda clean (for lack of a better term) I thought about combining it all into larger totes and just leaving the tops resting over them, where they could breathe but also pick up moisture; or planting a green manure on top and growing them outdoors like the raised beds MM mentioned.

You've got a point about some of those amendments but I think that adding some stuff like rock dust is probably a good idea since that takes a VERY long time to break down.
 

CrushnYuba

Well-known member
Good point on rock dusts. Any slow release rock dust is good to add now. Stuff like langbeinite, i would wait. Allot of those rock dusts like glacial, i am just not sold on at all. What does it really add? Dolimite Lime, greensand, cal phos, is all I'm really sold on. I don't even really use the greensand because of the cost, but i probably would if i had a lower volume of soil. Most of those rock dusts, if you had them last year, they probably aren't broken down much. Get a soil test behind you add mineral.

I Didn't realize your containers were that small. would put them all in a tarped pile to amend. I do it with my pots smaller then 20 gal. I probably wouldn't plant a cover crop. I would just buy alfalfa.

I don't think termites are a concern. Just pull your main stalk out.
 

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Those plants were around 5 ft but they were Indica so once they flower they shoot a little then stop upward growth.
 

bigbadbiddy

Active member
I did not notice if you said what size your containers are. If they are large, you do not need to do anything at all. Freezing does NOT kill off your microbial life if the containers are deep enough. This is how indigenous microbes populate.




That's what I meant by "freezing through" or "freezing solid", right?


If the pile is thick enough that it doesn't freeze at the core, then the microbes survive there and can repopulate the outer layers again once they thaw in the spring.


But if the pile is spread too thin or the pots are too shallow or whatever and the soil "freezes through", then you kill the soil.


Or am I mistaken?


In raised beds I know from experience that only the top few centimeters freeze solid, no matter how heavy the winter. If you dig through the frozen layer, you quickly reach unfrozen soil that remains alive.


I just wanted to make sure the pile is not spread out so thin that it freezes through.
 

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Microorganisms survive freezing so long as it comes on gradually like winter. Where I grew the ground froze 4 feet down some winters. If microbes did not survive freezing, we would not exist.
 

bigbadbiddy

Active member
Hm ok, so the pile would have to be laid out really thin for it to "flash freeze" completely through quickly.




I always thought when the top few centimeters of the soil freeze solid gradually over winter that the microbes retreat to deeper in the ground and then repopulate the frozen area when it thaws.


If I understood correctly, as long as the pile is not really thin and as long as the freezing is slowed down in extreme temperatures (for example by using a tarp), then the only thing left to consider is giving the microbes some time to repopulate the previously frozen areas of the soil after thawing?




I know in the raised beds in my old garden we also planted straight back into them after maybe topdressing a little in the spring. And they were frozen solid for several centimeters from the top all through winter.


During hard winters, we did cover the beds with a tarp though.


Never had any issues with it.
 

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
It is a little more complicated than that BBB. Different microbes have differing methods of self preservation. You would need to study up on these before drawing conclusions.
For example, some flagellates will encyst when they detect their environment is drying or freezing.

A cyst might exist intact for 100 years or 2 days prior to excysting.
 
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