LED newbie advice pls

hey folks
my room is 2 x 4 x 8 atm i use a 400w hps with a 300w cfl
(theres a pic of my room atm in the introduction forum)
questions i have are
1 is the LED worth the cost of changing from what i have?
2 how do you measure what light size you need?
3 heat output and light distancing
as i've always used MH, HPS and cfls to grow i'm unsure whether to try this out
but seeing some of the fantastic results from growers on here
well kinda makes a person sit up
so any help would be appreciated
thanks folks

gizmo666 said:

1 is the LED worth the cost of changing from what i have?

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Depends, you can't beat HPS a far as penetration when compared to LED's, but LED's are getting better ans better.

gizmo666 said:

2 how do you measure what light size you need?

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Depends on how many plants, lets say 50w per plant, but the more Watts the better, lumens are deceiving so don't go by that.

gizmo666 said:

3 heat output and light distancing

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With LED's you can place your lights much closer to the plants compared to HPS for example. BUt if you get an air cooled ballat you can have your plants much closer just be weary of light bleaching.

gizmo666 said:

hey folks

1 is the LED worth the cost of changing from what i have?
YES! Big yes, COB's are definitely worth it if you can swing the cost
2 how do you measure what light size you need?
You read a bunch of what's already posted here in the forums. Dion and the bunch have shared great information.
3 heat output and light distancing.
The heat is easier to remove than traditional HID setups. Distance will depend on the umols per sq/ft you are blasting the area with.
as i've always used MH, HPS and cfls to grow i'm unsure whether to try this out
but seeing some of the fantastic results from growers on here
well kinda makes a person sit up
so any help would be appreciated
thanks folks

Click to expand...

mGeRxOiWcEaRn said:

Depends, you can't beat HPS a far as penetration when compared to LED's, but LED's are getting better ans better.

IMO, This is wrong. Penetration is irrelevant despite the source of light. The photons coming off an HPS and those coming from an LED source can be measured and each follows the inverse square laws. Basically there's no such thing as "penetration" of light. It can be best explained as intensity but using the word penetration is probably the worst way to describe something as being "weak."

Depends on how many plants, lets say 50w per plant, but the more Watts the better, lumens are deceiving so don't go by that.

Well a better way would be to under the efficiency achieved with the drivers and mA of the array.

With LED's you can place your lights much closer to the plants compared to HPS for example. BUt if you get an air cooled ballat you can have your plants much closer just be weary of light bleaching.

Well, you can spread your light source more evenly over the same area so you can of course get the distance to canopy a bit closer.

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Not trying to be a dick, just wanted to help the OP understand.

-DZ

You sound a bit biased. Any chance you sell LED's? lol Anyway professional growers don't use LED's they use HPS and MH for a reason.

plan on using on cxb35490 for each square foot and one hlg-185h-c1400b meanwell driver for every four COB's or for every 2 square feet of canopy 4-CXB350's 1-HLG . COB led's get just as good penetration as HPS and MH. You can buy cxb3590 for $35/ea and a driver is $58. So a 2x4 canopy is 8-CXB3590 36v, 3500K, 2-HLG-185H-C1400B menawell drivers.

Thanks so much for the very informative answers folks
Seems I'm gonna have to look more into this
There seems to be plus's on both sides
I think the LED's would be brilliant in a scrog
But the way my plants grow(i keep everything very simplified) the hps is better becuase of varying plant hieghts
The cfl's great for bottom coverage(just remember to rotate the plants lol got into a mess with that before haha)
Got me some thinking to do
Once again thanks for the info

Hey Gizmo,
listen to DecieverZ and take a look at his epic grow with hps and two different led systems.
Then go see my signature links for a grow space similar to yours(2x4x7) with cob leds.
I'm sure you'll be impressed and will want to get the cobs asap

For your tent you can go with 6-8 cobs driven@30-50W each, depending on your desired light levels and of course the budget.
Oh now I see Avid Learner already pointed you in this direction. Good directions
There's some debate on most efficent spectrum choice, I have 3000K for flowering and it works great. 3500K is also a very good choice, more of all-around one. For only flowering I would recommend the 3000K CB version.

Thanks koondense I'll go have a look at those
Its grabbing my intrest the more I read

gizmo666 said:

hey folks
my room is 2 x 4 x 8 atm i use a 400w hps with a 300w cfl
(theres a pic of my room atm in the introduction forum)
questions i have are
1 is the LED worth the cost of changing from what i have?
2 how do you measure what light size you need?
3 heat output and light distancing
as i've always used MH, HPS and cfls to grow i'm unsure whether to try this out
but seeing some of the fantastic results from growers on here
well kinda makes a person sit up
so any help would be appreciated
thanks folks

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1) probably not, depends what LEDs you use and if you buy or build. if you buy there are only a handful of companies 'worth' it and litarraly thousands of brands that are garbage
2) by calculating efficiency and ppfd, impossible to do with led companies who don't post component information
3) much less heat under the light, equal total heat, designs can be cool tube styled if you think u need it, honestly though most LED growers who know what they r doing are keeping the temps nice and warm....or they are spending coin on calmag
I covered this in the FAQ thread right at the begging


The heat is still there

on average LED lights are 20% more efficient than HPS lights that doesnt equal no heat, it equals less heat-meaning they convert energy( electricity) into light better. where as HPS could convert 100w into 20w of light and 80w of heat LEDs will convert 40w into light and 60w into heat BUT the thing is the heat wont be thrown off the light like with HPS it will dissipate off the back so you wont need to cool the space to as low a temp. think of it this way, in a room that is 28c under an hps light it could be 33c so you really have to keep that room cool to not cook your girls( in reality the room is probably more like 25c but we are measuring at the canopy-read under the light) but with LED in a room that is 28c it will only be 29 or 30 under the light. In reality you will have only a little less heat to deal with but it is cheaper because of the way you have to deal with it ie less watts for Aircon/venting because our room can be 28c and still have the same temp under the light. (it is probably important to note that because of this you should run your led rooms a few degrees warmer than you would with hps, this will also cause the girls to drink and eat more.many led growers report needing to use less nutrient with leds. get ur temps up and this should not be the case,it is possible that many sub-par results from led grows were contributed to by this temperature anomaly causing plants to eat and drink less therefore grow less)


Now it may not come as a surprise that i do not recomend LED lights to growers who wish to replace a/multiple 1000w hps sure it will work the technology can do it BUT its just gonna cost too much to do and in 2 years the technology will be so much better you will feel ripped-off basically it isnt cost effective in my opinion-if u have cash to splash thats great do it. personally i think 400w is the cut off-with the exception of someone who wants 600w but just cant deal with the heat(get creative and cool-tube your LEDs or mount them into the roof of the cab so the heat rises off the sink up into a separate chamber and vent that)



re hps vs led penetration....lol some of the comments on here are just retarded. LED has way better penetration, ever heard of a laser?
its all about the optics but I and most prefer to have light saturation and even distribution rather than narrow beam angles

Thanks dion

folks need some straight advice
i.m not a technophobe and need to know
is this light a good buy or is it crao and stay with the 400w hps and 300w cfl setup im using
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1200W-100...hash=item2a76dc3f39:m:m0IwaTcXZl3jOBcJbMzDM_w
this is a link to the light i'm looking at on fleabay
but tbh i know nothing about led's and as said not into specifics lol
thanks folks your help and advice is always appreciated

crap,
the 1000w one is more like 100w, its power will be like 150w CFL bulb

excellent Dion
thanks for that
i'm still interested in led's but i would need to buy a made unit
can you advice any???

thanks dion
but at that price i think i'll stay with hps

I did some math on lights electric and $$$ savings im going led just got my parts in.

This is the calculation I got for 3x3 -/+
Of course im going LED so im looking at lumens

Possible lighting for the bloom:
For the bloom you will need something around 25000 - 50000 Lux (Lumen / m²)
Here our list of different possible lamp combinations in the correct strength.

~ WATT ~ LUX
2 x NDL with 150W 300 41976
1 x NDL with 250W 250 40123

Possible lighting for the growth:
For the growth you will need something around 15000 - 30000 Lux (Lumen / m²)
Here our list of different possible lamp combinations in the correct strength.

~ WATT ~ LUX
18 x LSR with 18W 324 28890
3 x MH with 70W 210 23334
3 x ESL with 125W 375 29631
1 x MH-Birne for 150W-NDL (max: 2) 150 16667
2 x ESL with 200W 400 29630
1 x MH-Birne for 250W-NDL 250 23457

Multiplying the figure of 1050 watts per square metre by 93 lumens per watt indicates that bright sunlight provides an illuminance of approximately 98 000 lux (lumens per square meter) on a perpendicular surface at sea level.

Im using one of these now, easily covers 2 x 4. Right now there is a holiday 25% discount

http://www.amaretechnology.com/product-page/f612e1c5-2458-ebed-37d5-7c6e9aa052fb

If that's still too expensive, check out Timber

Don't judge the grow. This was a weak clone from having to cut a lot of her roots away during move from a bubbler that had 3 clones in it too long and all three root systems grew together. Im lucky I got what i got

The tent is 4 x 4 with the light pushed to the back 2 ft. The branches are touching both side walls

View attachment 388886

try 25w/sf for vegging and 50w/sf for blooming. make choices from there.

AvidLerner said:

try 25w/sf for vegging and 50w/sf for blooming. make choices from there.

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If we're talking cobs(like CXBs), I believe 50W/sqft is a bit overkill if CO2 is not added to the room.
My little experience suggests 40W/sqft is more than enough, 30W/sqft is also well enough for good g/W figures.