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How To Purge Live Resin for Maximum Terping Retention

M

MichiganGrower

New member
Hello Friends. So everyone (most) around here has heard about "Live Resin" "Fresh Frozen" Extractions. But just like in growing cannabis I compare the purging process of the extraction to the drying process of growing your buds in the case that I hear more often then not about people who spend all this $ and time growing these beautiful flowers then machine trim (my opinion) then speed drying in 3-5 days locking in the chlorophyll making it taste like hay and taking there once AAA+++ Grade Flowers and turning them into across the boarder booty buds :wallbash:. Same thing with extractions. People either under purger or over heat or toss to many cans through a some homemade pvc tube (NOOOOoOOOOo).

In the case of fresh frozen, I believe the real art is in the purging process. Yes, Starting material is number one. With out a good starting product you can't have a great end product. At least not flavorful. How one can properly purge there concentrate while retaining all the terpinoids and flavornoids is in my opinion the difference between proper and improper purging . I believe this is the real art in Fresh frozen.

Well I think education is the power and in our profession/hobby it can be the difference between life and death.

So with that I would like to hear what you guys do and at what temps, time, psi environment controls etc, you use to purge your extracted fresh frozen and make those cup worthy extracts.
 
M

MichiganGrower

New member
Nothing? No here has ever purged live resin?

Ok I guess I'll start. I'm pretty humble as a artist, however I've been doing various extracts for almost a decade. Mainly the dry buds and mostly for friends and family. I have done a handful of Live Resin extracts and I like to use what I call the "Gradual Temp Increase" Method or GTI for short.

Not overly complicated or scientific but basically after freezing my material and leaving everything I'll be working with in the freezer for 48hrs. I'll also blast inside the refrigerator with my high power ducting system tubed up to the freezer to extract any harmful gases that evaporate of during the first couple steps.

After 48hr I blast inside the freezer and let the first stage of evaporation happen in the freezer with the door open until movement on the surface freezes and stops moving.

Scrap to parchment.

Vac Purge inside the freezer for 1 hour. starting the time when I see everything stop moving or after a couple 5-10. Sometimes the bubbles will freeze under the temps meaning its too cold for the in trapped butane to get out.

Secondly, I transfer everything to a refrigerator (not the one where I store food :p) and continue purging in refrigerator.

Then depending on the season, like now for example its in the 50's outside here. So If i was doing one today I would let the 3rd part of the evap happen outside with a hepa filter on top so dust and stuff don't fall in.

Then Room temp.

Lastly If need be I'll do it around 85f-95f using a sous vide thing I bought from a cooking store.

If I need much hotter then that (don't recall with fresh frozen but sometimes with reg runs) my hot water out of the tap is 120 all day.

This allows me to gradually reach the perfect purge temp and maintains my flavor. I'm not a scientist but I do know that not all strains are equal and the thickness of each after there blast changes and the thicker the liquid the more heat is needed to get all the butane out.

What do you guys and gals do for the best finished product?
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

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MichiganGrower said:
Nothing? No here has ever purged live resin?

Ok I guess I'll start. I'm pretty humble as a artist, however I've been doing various extracts for almost a decade. Mainly the dry buds and mostly for friends and family. I have done a handful of Live Resin extracts and I like to use what I call the "Gradual Temp Increase" Method or GTI for short.

Lawrd knows we need all the humble artists we can get!

Not overly complicated or scientific but basically after freezing my material and leaving everything I'll be working with in the freezer for 48hrs. I'll also blast inside the refrigerator with my high power ducting system tubed up to the freezer to extract any harmful gases that evaporate of during the first couple steps.

Please elaborate on blasting inside the refrigerator?? Open blasting or CLS?

Plugged in or not?

Might you share your high power ducting system design, along with your air flow calculations?

After 48hr I blast inside the freezer and let the first stage of evaporation happen in the freezer with the door open until movement on the surface freezes and stops moving.

Scrap to parchment.

Vac Purge inside the freezer for 1 hour. starting the time when I see everything stop moving or after a couple 5-10. Sometimes the bubbles will freeze under the temps meaning its too cold for the in trapped butane to get out.

Secondly, I transfer everything to a refrigerator (not the one where I store food :p) and continue purging in refrigerator.

Then depending on the season, like now for example its in the 50's outside here. So If i was doing one today I would let the 3rd part of the evap happen outside with a hepa filter on top so dust and stuff don't fall in.

Then Room temp.

Lastly If need be I'll do it around 85f-95f using a sous vide thing I bought from a cooking store.

If I need much hotter then that (don't recall with fresh frozen but sometimes with reg runs) my hot water out of the tap is 120 all day.

This allows me to gradually reach the perfect purge temp and maintains my flavor. I'm not a scientist but I do know that not all strains are equal and the thickness of each after there blast changes and the thicker the liquid the more heat is needed to get all the butane out.

What do you guys and gals do for the best finished product?
Click to expand...

I have best luck purging the material to cotton candy shatter consistency inside the Terpenator collection chamber, where it is drawn to bubble wall thin film consistency during purge, and dried in that shatter state.

I then freeze that about 30 minutes or so at 0F, and whisk the cotton candy into dust, which I sprinkle on parchment or film and melt in a 115F vacuum oven at atmospheric pressure. Once molten, I increment up the vacuum level until it starts to boil and then hold it at that level until it diminishes, before incrementing up the vacuum level until it boils again. Repeat until rapid boiling has ceased, and then flip the paddy and repeat until solvent bubbles cease, leaving only occasional fizzy C02 bubbles.

Remove, cool to room temperature, wrap in parchment and seal in an airtight container to retain monoterpenes.
 
HG23

HG23

Member
Hey GW,

I have been playing around with the cotton candy technique (pulling to bubble wall consistency in the terpenator) lately. On occasion, I've had the "foam" collapse back into a puddle while in the freezer or before I can get it into the freezer. Continuing to pull a vacuum will not make it foam back up. It then requires chipping and scraping to remove it from the extractor base and I end up loosing some product and making a slight mess. Have you experienced this?
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

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HG23 said:
Hey GW,

I have been playing around with the cotton candy technique (pulling to bubble wall consistency in the terpenator) lately. On occasion, I've had the "foam" collapse back into a puddle while in the freezer or before I can get it into the freezer. Continuing to pull a vacuum will not make it foam back up. It then requires chipping and scraping to remove it from the extractor base and I end up loosing some product and making a slight mess. Have you experienced this?
Click to expand...

Yup, and it isn't a pretty sight.......... Once it collapses, there is usually not enough solvent left in the puddle to inflate it again.

I rely on the sight window to tell when I have dried the foam to the point that it will stay up when I back fill with nitrogen.
 
B

brokenwindowpro

New member
What price can extract artist expect selling BHO to California clubs, Bay Area, or Santa Rosa. Will the clubs take elbows at a time? Is it necessary to bring the product in with test results in order to ask for top dollar. For instance, a sour live resin run whose quality is outstanding, clearly comparable to the same color clarity and taste of the top shelf runs selling for 90 a gram. Can you expect to ask 30-40 per g at the club all the way up and will they take an elbow or more at a time. What about the regular bud and trim runs selling 40-60 per gram, are artists asking around half of what the club is selling for and are you guys really doing it on a consignment basis?
 
B

brokenwindowpro

New member
Oh yeah and what consistency do the clubs like the live resin extracts. They taste so much better in sap form, yet auto budder outside the whine cooler quickly. Also, it is not practical to half gram out the elbows at one time regardless of the sappy consistency as it would not be practical to store. Would the clubs buying bulk handle the packaging?
 
B

BrownGuy420

Member
Hey GreyWolf I have seen the fluff but I've only seen it happen back when I ran 100% propane, never with butane or a mix of the two but that is back when I was running an IronFist. I am now using the MKIVc and it kicks the IronFist's ass! I still don't see the fluff when running though, but havent taken the TRS21 down to a full vac yet, I have been pulling to about 15hg to be able to pour a nice oil and then purge into either an oil or shatter. Question is can only 1 TRS21 pump pull down to a full 30hg and pull the fluff? I heard that the pump can do 15hg reliably but risk killin it pulling it further...is this true? I could recover with 2 pumps I guess just don't have those funds yet. And of course can butane be pulled to a fluff?
Thx GW
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

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BrownGuy420 said:
Hey GreyWolf I have seen the fluff but I've only seen it happen back when I ran 100% propane, never with butane or a mix of the two but that is back when I was running an IronFist. I am now using the MKIVc and it kicks the IronFist's ass! I still don't see the fluff when running though, but havent taken the TRS21 down to a full vac yet, I have been pulling to about 15hg to be able to pour a nice oil and then purge into either an oil or shatter. Question is can only 1 TRS21 pump pull down to a full 30hg and pull the fluff? I heard that the pump can do 15hg reliably but risk killin it pulling it further...is this true? I could recover with 2 pumps I guess just don't have those funds yet. And of course can butane be pulled to a fluff?
Thx GW
Click to expand...

Yes, we regularly make cotton candy with 100% n-Butane.

While a TR-21 or two of them may eventually reach -29.9", it would create excessive wear and take a long time.

What I do when I reach -22", is switch to the high vacuum pump and pull it the rest of the way down, where I hold it until I can see that it is dry and solid through the view window, and then I back fill with nitrogen before opening.

When I start to backfill, if it starts to collapse, I stop and vacuum some more with the high vacuum pump.
 
B

BrownGuy420

Member
Gray Wolf said:
Yes, we regularly make cotton candy with 100% n-Butane.

While a TR-21 or two of them may eventually reach -29.9", it would create excessive wear and take a long time.

What I do when I reach -22", is switch to the high vacuum pump and pull it the rest of the way down, where I hold it until I can see that it is dry and solid through the view window, and then I back fill with nitrogen before opening.

When I start to backfill, if it starts to collapse, I stop and vacuum some more with the high vacuum pump.
Click to expand...

When you say back fill with nitrogen im guessing gas and not liquid? What is the nitrogen doing? So the trs21 can pull up to -22hg? I just don't want to put unnecessary ware on my pump....I'm on a budget right now....and lastly when you mention a high vacum pump are you talking your typical 1 or 2 stage basic vacume pump?

Thx GreyWolf
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

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N2 gas backfills the chamber with a dry inert gas, so that the system is below Lower Explosive Limits (LEL) when opened.

Yes, the TRS-21 will pull lower than 22"Hg, but it runs the piston seals dry and adds heat and excessive wear.

A standard rotary vane AC vacuum pump will work. We use a Vaccon pneumatic pump, because it is explosion proof.
 
G

GonePhishin

New member
Gray Wolf said:
N2 gas backfills the chamber with a dry inert gas, so that the system is below Lower Explosive Limits (LEL) when opened.

Yes, the TRS-21 will pull lower than 22"Hg, but it runs the piston seals dry and adds heat and excessive wear.

A standard rotary vane AC vacuum pump will work. We use a Vaccon pneumatic pump, because it is explosion proof.
Click to expand...
What model Vaccon pump do you use?
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

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BlackestofOps said:
Why that pump and not, say, one from Welch?
Click to expand...

It has zero moving parts and is rated NEMA 7, Class 1 Div 1, so is easier to certify.

You can put solvent vapors through it without contaminating the pump.

It is a high volume, fast pump, albeit noisy (loud) at 22 scfm exhaust rates.

WolfWurx also used a Haskel pneumatic recovery pump, so no electrical was required in the extraction booth.

Lastly, except for diaphragm pumps, Welch pumps are typically rated for lower vacuum that the -29.5" we use for simple extraction.

A venturi vacuum won't work in those applications where the Welch pumps shine.

For vacuum oven purging, they would be a poor choice because of both the noise and the 22 scfm of air they require to operate for long periods.
 
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