The solution for molded bud

@Weird.

I totally understand your morality and point of view. And I do feel it is sad to see "Producers" dropping standards.

But I am not going to persecute the OP for trying.

It's always going to be the lesser of evils. Do you want these "money hungry" growers to spray Eagle 20 all over the planet? Giant indoor monoculture will battle pM forever. And it does clear although not listed. Tons of producers use it illicitly. If their product fails testing they just sit on it another 60 days and test again. I saw a gallon of Eagle at an organic facility...hmm.

So I ask you this. What if a totally safe method of mold removal from extracts was invented? You you think everyone will just grow moldy flower and say fuck it? Of course they won't.

So it's down to this.

Eagle 20 vs Successful removal of aflatoxins

Because most don't grow flowers like you do...

I don't grow moldy bud in OR.

Had problems in Hawaii. Discarded anything questionable.

First off I'm just going to say that having bud rot issues indoors is completely uncalled for- enough fans and proper climate control make it rather avoidable. I've also heard the PM horror stories from the large scale guys going legal and that is tough because there are different varities of PM that thrive under both dry or humid conditions.

I digress- a simple business analysis will show you that when things become federally legal I guarantee that no more than 15-20% of bud will be grown indoors. The rest will be in fields like hemp or in controlled greenhouses. The cost for a business to produce a pound of indoors is $6-800/lb and that isn't sustainable. Prices are going to drop to the point they resemble other commodities like tomatoes or tobacco.

When people are forced to leave the perfect climate control of these warehouses they will be forced to overcome the elements of nature just like our other farmer brethren. Real industrial chemists will come up with solutions like what I am suggesting.

Weird I'm proud of you that you don't have to deal with bud rot in your closet grow. Maybe next summer you could post your own grow log showing us how to produce large sums of flower outdoors with no issues popping up. It'd be a hit- I'm sure the "hack" grape growers in Napa or the peanut growers in Georgia who deal with mold/mildew every year could learn a lot from your brilliance.

I wish it was "uncalled for" @coldcanna.

I have seen pM thrive at an RH of 30% indoors. Had a clone come in with it. Got the RH really low in quarantine thinking it would slow. Well it didn't. I was so blown away by how aggressive it was I didn't even treat it. It got tossed.

You are correct about the bulk of flower going outside in the near future.

The more open monoculture there is the more these things will spread.

And with so much damn flower around you know the extract biz will be huge. And they will have aflatoxins pretty often I think.

Go by a pack of cigarettes and run a mold/pesticide panel. Holy fuck no wonder they are carcinogenic!

hey coldcanna,

apologize if my comment came of as rude or cheeky to you, definitely
was not the intention. definitely also emphatize with the mortgage situation
and the problem that result from it. would be still hesitant to acquire said product
if you tell me or I find out that it was mold ridden beforehands, eventhough it
somehow was possible to make it invisible or of the likes.
additionally, would think twice about researching or improving techniques that
make it possible to sell product that used to be moldy or sub par in
other ways, and increase the danger of people intentionally wanting to sell
a subpar product without improving the quality, and the danger of flooding the market
with sub par products in general.

sure understand thats not what you want to get from this thread,
hope it leads to people avoiding mold in the first place. acknowledging
that some people dont care that the product is mold ridden and still would
smoke it.

AV

@mushroombrew- you may have mistook what I was saying... bud rot as in botrytis, aka grey or brown mold can be avoided rather easily indoors. Powder mildew is a different creature all together and can thrive in a range of climates. Neem works great against it if applied every 4-5 days but once you have mildew you gotta basically burn the room.

@aquavitae- I also wouldn't smoke anything moldy or sell it, in past years I have literally tossed out 10-15k worth of moldy buds just because I didn't have a remedy for it. So I'm there with you on that perspective

I look forward to the days where locally adapted cultivars can be developed, its just at this point there isnt. In the north you start to get frost early October some years, so mold-resistant sativas cant finish. Its also super humid and has cool nights so the fast, monster indica buds literally decay from the inside out.

I say all this, I'm sure that once weed can be shipped across state lines it will all be grown in Arizona or somewhere with low RH and lots of sunshine.

I'm not a seller but am trying to grow what I need to treat my own ills. I know if I lost most of a crop (I have) it hurts. Knowing how to safely save a crop is invaluable to folks like me who don't have any reserves to fall back on.

So... I'm watching this thread and trying to learn from those who are willing to participate positively.

coldcanna said:

@mushroombrew- you may have mistook what I was saying... bud rot as in botrytis, aka grey or brown mold can be avoided rather easily indoors. Powder mildew is a different creature all together and can thrive in a range of climates. Neem works great against it if applied every 4-5 days but once you have mildew you gotta basically burn the room.

@aquavitae- I also wouldn't smoke anything moldy or sell it, in past years I have literally tossed out 10-15k worth of moldy buds just because I didn't have a remedy for it. So I'm there with you on that perspective

Click to expand...

Got it. Yes big distinction.

There is a high Desert PM that loves american genetics. I was just at a huge larf growing site. You know 180 day veg under single gavita in 45G bag... I feel like hanging myself just thinking about it!

I digress; they have PM really bad in flower. RH 45%

Sour Nightmare, BB#3 and Sour diesel are fit for the trash can.

The NL hybrid stuffed in with them is spotless!! Faak!

And seeing as I am feet first into American i stopped by the nearest gas station and set myself on fire!! Seriously though I disrobed far from the grow. A spore brother. Just one and your crops done.

From my own experimentation with genetics it seems that sativa dom hybrids do the best in regards to humidity related disease- as they are native to tropical areas. My sour D hardly gets any rot, just I usually have to cut her down 2-3 weeks early every fall because of the cold temps coming in. I would imagine that in a high desert you might be better off with indica doms as the hindu kush are high and dry.

@brown thumb and others- I'm glad to see some people with an open mind. As far as experiments go I'm a little ways out from being able to post anything... its prime time harvest right now so we are burried. I was kind of hoping someone on here had already tried distillation or anything else and had something to add here but I suppose the idea of ground breaking research is somewhat exciting so I guess we'll have to stay posted on that front

Steep hill article.

http://steephilllab.com/mycotoxins-molds-and-cannabis/

"Another commonly-appearing Aspergillus strain is a mycotoxin called Aflatoxin, which is among the most carcinogenic chemicals known. Aflatoxin has been found in the breast milk of mammals eating contaminated feed, peanut butter, cooking oils such as olive oil, and in patients using contaminated cosmetics. Liquid chromatography (LC) testing has shown at least faint traces of Aflatoxin in at least 50% of food samples tested."

And if anyone should be closed minded about mold it should be me!! I got black mold poisoning in HI last year.
If I eat any carbs I get sick quickly. The spores use sugars and produce myotoxins. It's been over a year on a zero carb diet.
Fuck it I am so ripped!! haha!

Mikell said:

Knowing how to deal with all situations is helpful in this field. What good fortune you had during your short stint as a producer to never have encountered any issues. Bit like a boxer retiring after one fight as the undefeated champion.

Lovely sentagraphs, we're a bit offtopic though, eh? Let's let people with something to contribute carry this thread. Opinions and ill informed assumptions are neato, but I think ColdCanna came here for relevant information.

Click to expand...

short stint?

25 + years of cropping up to 5 locations simultaneously

there isn't one aspect of this "business" from discovering and breeding my own genetics that I still run today to knocking cultivars out of the park sterile, transitional and organic

you especially spend your time carousing the forums and lacking the very experience I predicate the facts I share on these boards

you don't even understand the different modes of action in natural need produts and you went out of your way to play devil's advocate to argue for eagle20

assholes talk a great game but can't show for it

anytime you want me to show you pictures of how it is done without compromise I will be glad to show you want you have never proven you can do yourself

your a disgrace to the community and the plant itself because you don't post here for the benefit of the plant you do it because you have no other life

keep talking shit dudes because I am going to start bringing the hard ball and outting you for the know nothings you are

when you get 150 + harvests under your belt and pull off what i have done come to the big boy's hobby grow table until then learn how to grow right before you come to talk shit to me

Weird said:

short stint?

25 + years of cropping up to 5 locations simultaneously

there isn't one aspect of this "business" from discovering and breeding my own genetics that I still run today to knocking cultivars out of the park sterile, transitional and organic

you especially spend your time carousing the forums and lacking the very experience I predicate the facts I share on these boards

you don't even understand the different modes of action in natural need products and you went out of your way to play devil's advocate to argue for eagle20

assholes talk a great game but can't show for it

anytime you want me to show you pictures of how it is done without compromise I will be glad to show you want you have never proven you can do yourself

your a disgrace to the community and the plant itself because you don't post here for the benefit of the plant you do it because you have no other life

keep talking shit dudes because I am going to start bringing the hard ball and outting you for the know nothings you are

when you get 150 + harvests under your belt and pull off what i have done come to the big boy's hobby grow table until then learn how to grow right before you come to talk shit to me

Click to expand...

It's interesting how humans behave. If they don't share your beliefs
the are quick to belittle or say something to reassure themselves of you lack of experience.

Like "it's all good in your tiny grow you could never pull that off in big numbers"

Well it seems you have. And I have seen plenty of huge healthy crops all over the world.

My buddy holds the record for the largest bust in HI history. 6000+ plants. He just got out. And if you knew where they were growing you would trip. It's the valley that leads to the wettest spot on earth.
Mold fucking heaven boys. 420" of rain per year.

If he hadn't got busted nobody would have believed you could grow up there.

So how did they do it? They planted on the top of steep windward facing slopes (on state land oops)

Even with daily rains that cold wind worked. I was up there a year ago
still have a hard time believing how clean their product was.

The guy down in the valley is probably still trying to do something with his moldy crop.

I am not an Eagle advocate. I am scared by how many inexperienced guys are going big outdoors. I think "super" pests are here already.
And the spread of all these things will just get worse.

As you know I am a hydro guy. But I am very much against Chems otherwise.

And if a BM still exists in a few years it will be where all the tainted bud goes. Scary times.

@mushroombrew- Your point about HI is kind of what I'm getting at here. There are many places out there who's climate is conducive to the natural genetics of cannabis. The sativa landraces are native to hot, wet, tropical rainforest type places along the equator so choosing the right genetics in this circumstance would cover you. They may take 12 weeks to flower out but HI will be warm that whole time so you can let them finish. I have had great luck with my sativas NOT being prone to budrot just you cant finish them out.

I'm speaking for people who live in an area where the local climate is NOT conducive to cannabis: upstate new york, maine, wisconsin, northern michigan, ect. Cannabis as we know it isnt native to places like these. The indicas are fast enough to finish but are native to high desert climates so the humidity kills them.

Not saying theres not plenty of people who do well in these spots. Things like growing many smaller well pruned plants helps and you keep up with your preventatives its ok. But if your going for large multi-pound plants that are super dense you will almost always get some issues.

Anyways- back to my topic. I found this article in regards to the production of corn oil. As I mentioned a large quantity of corn processed has at least some aflatoxins in its raw form.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/myco1975/1999/Suppl2/1999_Suppl2_88/_pdf"

"Removal of mycotoxins during food processing" by Hishashi Kamimura

1) mix NaOH into crude oil and heat to 60*C, mix for 10 minutes

2) centrifuge and then wash out precipitates with warm water until the PH is neutral. The majority of mycotoxins will go with the "foots" which I take to mean precipitate.

3)Further washing with warm water will eventually remove all mycotoxins.


Now I'll be the first to say my chemistry is weak so anyone feel free to chime in. This seems like an easy process just wouldn't know how it effects the cannabinoid matrix without hands on testing. But that being said, we now know that there are legit methods already out there in other industries for purification.

Science is science and if it passes FDA guidelines thats fair game. For anyone saying they wouldnt consume edibles processed like this- are you also putting a moratorium on corn products like anything with syrup, or cooking oil, or peanut butter, or common spices in your kitchen cabinet? I didnt know this before but pretty much everything we eat is somehow related to our convo here.

And nobody should come back with "thats why I don't buy big AG" or whatever. Even if you pick veggies from your garden, these substances are omnipresent in the air and even if you don't see an infection there are traces amounts of mold on basically everything.

Someone made a point here that is brilliant and i hadnt thought of it- this could dramatically reduce the amount of fungicides used

mushroombrew said:

It's interesting how humans behave. If they don't share your beliefs
the are quick to belittle or say something to reassure themselves of you lack of experience.

Like "it's all good in your tiny grow you could never pull that off in big numbers"

Well it seems you have. And I have seen plenty of huge healthy crops all over the world.

My buddy holds the record for the largest bust in HI history. 6000+ plants. He just got out. And if you knew where they were growing you would trip. It's the valley that leads to the wettest spot on earth.
Mold fucking heaven boys. 420" of rain per year.

If he hadn't got busted nobody would have believed you could grow up there.

So how did they do it? They planted on the top of steep windward facing slopes (on state land oops)

Even with daily rains that cold wind worked. I was up there a year ago
still have a hard time believing how clean their product was.

The guy down in the valley is probably still trying to do something with his moldy crop.

I am not an Eagle advocate. I am scared by how many inexperienced guys are going big outdoors. I think "super" pests are here already.
And the spread of all these things will just get worse.

As you know I am a hydro guy. But I am very much against Chems otherwise.

And if a BM still exists in a few years it will be where all the tainted bud goes. Scary times.

Click to expand...

so now quantity is a metric for quality?

is revenue a metric for quality too?

you realize you are drunk on the American legal kool aid and the big custy bucks that come with it

6000 plants is nothing compared to thousands of hectares of organic foods grown in countries like india with like environmental pressures

the future of agriculture is cultivar performance in local environments

what that means is people should be choosing cultivars in their local environment from robust lines for premium performance and plant quality

it is a old story for which academic agriculture science was provided and discussed ad nasseum here before

but you perfectly illustrate the point that your BELIEF that it can't be done means there needs to be a way to make moldy pot viable for market

If that defines the term producer please leave me as far away from that designation as possible

If I made the same compromises I never would have had the same level of success but hey you believe whatever you want but if you really believe it is impossible I am sure we can find an someone organically farming in those regions without he same excuses growing cultivars with a few dollar a pound at most

the proof is in the pudding not in what you have read, been told or taught

@Wierd I think 6000 plants (indica) btw growing mold free in the wettest place on earth where RH is 90+ is a HUGE achievement.

Yes familiar with india. I hope others follow. http://www1.montpellier.inra.fr/orp2012/images/communications/singha.pdf

@coldcanna dead link...

mushroombrew said:

@Wierd I think 6000 plants (indica) btw growing mold free in the wettest place on earth where RH is 90+ is a HUGE achievement.

Yes familiar with india. I hope others follow. https://www1.montpellier.inra.fr/orp2012/images/communications/singha.pdf

@coldcanna dead link...

Click to expand...

you attacked my belief because of the size of my grow which has no relevance because it had everything to do with integrity. How you scale it after that is on the you.

riddle me this, how many times did your buddy who got busted harvested moldy pot and clean it up and sell it? or did he plant on a hill to avoid it in the first place.

I might not be as big but I never got taken out the game

some people want to be the biggest player in the game and some simply want the highest quality meds possible

there are people who blend the two nicely together, ask them how much time they focused on making sick pot available for market and how much they spent learning to prevent the issue in the first place

don't trust me for the answer, reality has it right out in the open for you

or better yet ask teh dudes who only knew how to throw down with eagle 20 how much they getting for their packs LOL

who cares if the pot is worse, its legal just grow more

:: breaks out calculator

Not everyone has their mouth to the teat of babylon

Weird said:

you attacked my belief because of the size of my grow which has no relevance because it had everything to do with integrity. How you scale it after that is on the you.

riddle me this, how many times did your buddy who got busted harvested moldy pot and clean it up and sell it? or did he plant on a hill to avoid it in the first place.

I might not be as big but I never got taken out the game

some people want to be the biggest player in the game and some simply want the highest quality meds possible

there are people who blend the two nicely together, ask them how much time they focused on making sick pot available for market and how much they spent learning to prevent the issue in the first place

don't trust me for the answer, reality has it right out in the open for you

Click to expand...

No I did not attack you. That was the other guy. Sorry if you misinterpreted me. I know big grows can be clean.

Fuck no he would never use molded anything or salvage it whatsoever. It would not of come of the hill.

Just a little damp up there...lol

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000iiH4U4uB0AQ/fit=1000x750/120919-1510.jpg

My god brother you would not believe the hike. 3am start. 3hr run. Yes you heard me run. Some of the toughest men I know him and his sons. Yes he went up there for the breeze and cooler temps.

What is your strategy? Genetics? If it gets too off topic PM me...

I am open to any and all things that improve quality.
I am a quality guy. All the way.

Just turf it, all that work, effort and hack for an inferior product?
Shit, no man!

Heya Weird

TLDR. I've been told we shouldn't play together, but I can see you're busy writing several books and tied up anyway.

Cheers




Coldcanna,

It is best to pretend there is no elephant.

Hope to see some follow up one day,

Ribedurchay