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6-Benzylaminopurine (BAP) to Possibly Increase Budset and Productivity of Marijuana

dizzlekush

Member
BAP Stock Solution Formulas

BAP Stock Solution Formulas

I found a few different instructions to making BAP stock solutions. For my testing i would like a 10,000ppm (1.0%) BAP stock solution so i could easily control ppm for testing

examples

5ml BAP stock solution + 995ml combined water, saponins, and surfactant =
50ppm BAP spraying solution

2.5ml BAP stock solution + 997.5ml combined water, saponins, and surfactant =
25ppm BAP spraying solution

10ml BAP stock solution + 990ml combined water, saponins, and surfactant =
100ppm BAP spraying solution


anyway here they are:


0032]From the above description it can be inferred that 6-benzyladenine, if applied at suitable times and with suitable doses onto fruitlets and/or unripe young fruits of the actinidia genus, can increase size and weight of ripe fruits and change positively their form, without jeopardizing their firmness and other quali-quantitative parameters.

[0033]The addition of natural substances such as leonardite, and/or its active components, or similar compounds, or of low toxicity natural compounds with surfactant and/or surfactant-tackifying properties, such as ethoxylated sorbitan monolaurate and/or the others as mentioned above, increases the activity of 6-benzyladenine to a significant extent.

[0034]Said natural substances can be added to 6-benzyladenine alone or in any combination.

[0035]For instance, a formulation comprising 6-benzyladenine in association with leonardite, and/or one or more of its active substances, and with ethoxylated sorbitan monolaurate, and/or at least a surfactant and/or surfactant tackifier chosen among those described above, has proved particularly useful.

[0036]The preferred application is spraying in aqueous solution, carried out by means of current equipment normally used for applying plant protection products and/or plant hormones onto plants. Said application is executed one or more times on young fruitlets starting from few days after petal drop until fruits, which are still unripe, have stopped growing and have reached the size of ripe fruits.

[0037]Said composition shall preferably be in liquid form, although solid formulations are not at all excluded, such as for instance powders, granulates or pills or water-soluble tablets.

[0038]In case of liquid formulations, 6-benzyladenine and most components listed above will be present in solution; however, some of them that are less soluble in water (leonardite for instance) can be used in suspension.

[0039]Generally speaking, the formulations according to the invention are prepared by dissolving first a suitable amount of potassium hydroxide in water, preferably lukewarm water, so as to reach a basic pH for stabilizing 6-benzyladenine in time; then (if required by the formulation) ethoxylated lauryl sulfate or the desired surfactant and/or surfactant-tackifier is added; 6-benzyladenine is usually added as final component, keeping the solution under stirring. Leonardite, if required, can be added at any time.

[0040]Preferably, 6-benzyladenine is then prepared by solubilization in water, after adding strong bases, in concentrations of 10,000 to 500,000 ppm, preferably of 20,000 to 100,000 with respect to solution volume.

[0041]By mere way of non-limiting example, the following contains some possible examples of concentrated mother liquor, in which the weights of the single components are in grams per 100 grams of composition.

Recipe A
pure 6-benzyladenine 9.35 g;
potassium hydroxide 5.0 g;
water to 100 g.

Recipe B
pure 6-benzyladenine 2.0 g;
monopropylene glycol 20.0 g;
water to 100 g.

Recipe C
pure 6-benzyladenine 9.35 g;
ethoxylated monolauryl sulfate 10.0 g;
potassium hydroxide 5.0 g;
water to 100 g.

Recipe D
pure 6-benzyladenine 9.35 g;
nonyl phenol 4.0 g;
chipped potassium hydroxide 4.25 g;
leonardite 2.0 g;
water to 100 g.

[0042]It should be kept in mind that the concentrations referred to by way of example in the previous recipes as well as those referred to as preferred for 6-benzyladenine refer to concentrated mother liquor.

[0043]More to the point, the low values contained in the table of the experimental tests above are due to the fact that said concentrated mother composition is not used as such but it is diluted before use in water of spraying machines, for instance at a dose of 100 ml per 100 liters of water.

[0044]Suppose for instance a formulation containing 100 g of 6-benzyladenine per liter of solution, corresponding to a concentration of about 100,000 ppm of 6-benzyladenine with respect to solution volume.

[0045]If 100 ml of this concentrated product are diluted in 100 liters of water before use, a dilution of 1,000 will be obtained. The final concentration of 6-benzyladenine will be therefore of 100 ppm.
http://www.patsnap.com/patents/view/EP1579768A1.html


The percentage ratios of the components of the formulations are to be considered as % by weight with respect to a total weight of 100 grams of final formulation.
In a reactor equipped with stirrer and heating and cooling means, a basic solution is prepared by dissolving under stirring at a temperature of about 35°C an amount of 90% potassium hydroxide, corresponding to 4.25% by weight of the final formulation, in an amount of water of 82.30% by weight.
The solution thus obtained is gradually added under constant stirring with an amount of ethoxylated lauryl sulfate corresponding to 4% by weight of the final formulation.
Eventually, still under stirring, an amount of 98% 6-benzyladenine corresponding to 9.45% by weight of the final formulation is added.
The resulting solution is cooled at room temperature under stirring, then it is packed so as to obtain the desired concentrated mother liquor.

Following the procedure described in Example 1, the following concentrated formulations were prepared.

2)
98% 6-benzyladenine 9.45%;
polyethoxylated alkylaryl ether 4.00%;
humic acids 0.01%;
90% potassium hydroxide 4.25%;
water 82.29%.

3)
98% 6-benzyladenine 9.45%;
ethoxylated sorbitan monooleate 4.00%;
90% potassium hydroxide 4.25%;
water 82.30%.

4)
98% 6-benzyladenine 9.45%;
ethoxylated sorbitan monooleate 4.00%;
humic acids 0.01%;
90% potassium hydroxide 4.25%;
water 82.29%.

5)
98% 6-benzyladenine 9.45%;
amine salt of ethoxylated and
phosphorylated polyaryl phenol 4.00%;
ethoxylated alcohol 3.00%;
90% potassium hydroxide 6.25%;
water 77.25%.

6)
98% 6-benzyladenine 9.45%;
polyethoxylated alkylaryl ether 4.00%;
90% potassium hydroxide 4.25%;
water 82.30%.
http://ip.com/patapp/EP1579768A1


Directions for making BAP Stock Solution (1mg/ml)

100mg BAP (Benzylaminopurine)
1ml 30% KoH (Potassium Hydroxide)
99ml Distilled Water

BAP will not dissolve in water, so KoH is usually used as the solvent. Add the 100mg of BAP to 1ml of KoH. Carefully stir the mixture until the BAP has fully dissolved. The slowly add the 99ml of distilled water.

At this point I usually place 10ml of the stock solution into small vials and freeze any of them that I am not going to immediately use. Then when you need to make a batch of stem prop medium, all you need to do is thaw one vial of the stock BAP solution.
http://orchidvault.com/node/70


Preparation of 6-BA Stock Solution (1 mg/ml):

[0055] 100 mg 6-BA was weighed and dissolved in 1 ml 1 N potassium hydroxide for 5 minutes, then 10 ml distilled water was added for complete dissolution. The resulting solution was brought to 100 ml with distilled water and stored at room temperature for later use.
http://patents.com/us-20110160444.html


The composition of claim 6, wherein the amount of 6-benzyladenine is about 2.0% by weight, the amount of potassium hydroxide is about 1.13% by weight, and the amount of water is about 96.87% by weight.
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100216641
 
S

swisscheese

I've been under the impression bap is dangerous/carcinogen and wouldn't want it in my medical garden.
 

dizzlekush

Member
I've been under the impression bap is dangerous/carcinogen and wouldn't want it in my medical garden.

well its an understandable fear but you've been under the wrong impression. BAP is used to grow apples, pistachios, spinach, and other crops regularly

here's the toxocology info on bap
Inhalation, rat: LC50 = 5.2 gm/m3;
Oral, mouse: LD50 = 1300 mg/kg;
Oral, rat: LD50 = 2125 mg/kg;
Oral, rat: LD50 = 1.3 gm/kg;
Skin, rabbit: LD50 = 5 gm/kg;

with a spray solution at 40-100 mg per liter, BAP only shows slight danger to the person working with the solution, and no danger for people consuming crops.

"In acute toxicity studies, N6-Benzyladenine is slightly toxic by the oral route and produces moderate eye irritation; it has been placed in Toxicity Category III (the second-to-lowest of four categories) for these effects. It is of relatively low acute dermal and inhalation toxicity, and is only a slight irritant to the skin; it has been placed in Toxicity Category IV for these effects. N6-Benzyladenine does not appear to be a skin sensitizer or mutagenic.
In a subchronic toxicity study using rats, N6-Benzyladenine caused decreased food consumption, decreased body weight gain, increased blood urea nitrogen, and minimal changes in kidney tissue. It shows some evidence of causing developmental toxicity and maternal toxicity.

Dietary Exposure
Although N6-Benzyladenine has two food crop-related uses (on fruit- bearing apple trees and spinach grown for seed), it is exempt from the requirement of a tolerance because it is a biochemical pesticide used at a rate of less than 20 grams of active ingredient per acre. Therefore, the Agency will revoke the existing tolerance and establish an exemption from the requirement of a tolerance for the currently registered uses of this pesticidal compounds on apples and spinach.
Because the use rate is low and application precedes harvest by approximately four months, the potential for dietary exposure is considered to be negligible.

Occupational and Residential Exposure
Pesticide workers (mixers, loaders and applicators) may be exposed to N6-Benzyladenine during application. Dermal exposure is expected to be moderate to high for workers who open, pour, mix and load the pesticide, and to applicators using hand sprayers and air blast equipment.
To reduce worker exposure, EPA is requiring use of the personal protective equipment (PPE) and Restricted Entry Interval set forth in the Agency's Worker Protection Standard (WPS). Because formulated products that contain N6-Benzyladenine are in Toxicity Category II, use of the following PPE is required: long-sleeved shirt and pants, socks, chemical- resistant footwear, chemical-resistant gloves, respiratory protection devices, and protective eyewear. Although the PPE requirement is based on the acute toxicity of the end-use product, it will mitigate exposure substantially and thus will serve to protect pesticide handlers from potential developmental toxicity effects. Further, the Restricted Entry Interval of 12 hours set forth in the WPS will be required, reducing the risks of post- application exposure to benzyladenine.

Human Risk Assessment
N6-Benzyladenine is of moderate to relatively low acute toxicity, but has been demonstrated to cause developmental toxicity and maternal toxicity in laboratory animals. The potential for dietary exposure is negligible. Applicator exposure and risk of developmental and maternal toxicity will be reduced through use of personal protective equipment (PPE) and the Restricted Entry Interval (REI) set forth in the Worker Protection Standard (WPS)."

and here's another link that show the changes made to these limitations:
http://www.epa.gov/oppbppd1/biopesticides/ingredients/fr_notices/frnotices_116801.htm

basically just lessening the restrictions even further. BAP isn't a really dangerous substance, however handling the stock solutions and working solutions could be fairly toxic due to potassium hydroxide, sodium hydroxide or other caustic chemicals. so there are precautions when working with BAP that have to be respected (skin, eye, respiratory protection when spraying), but other than that, BAP used properly does not have health risks for us.
 

dizzlekush

Member
I originally posted this on the "gibberellin + jasmonic acid = more trichomes?" thread, but since i felt it was pertinent to this thread, ive posted it here as well.

Cytokinins (6-BAP specifically) have shown to have equal or greater abilities in increasing trichome production over gibberellins. Now recognize that the increased production of GLANDULAR TRICHOMES ONLY can possibly increase production of cannabinoids, terpenoids and other phytochemicals. MeJA increases glandular trichome development more so than cytokinins or gibberellins, or at least interacts with the genes that initiate phytochemical production in glandular trichomes, while cytokinins and gibberellins do not. Cytokinins usually have similar (slightly less usually) amounts of overall induced increased trichome production as MeJA, and more so than Gibberellins.

I was not able to find any studies where MeJA was co-applied with cytokinins and trichome production was quantified. there is obvious antagonism between jasmonates and cytokinins, since jasmonates stunt mitosis, while cytokinins promote it. so it is possible that co-applying GIBB with MeJA will be more effective than co-applications with cytokinin when it comes to trichome production, since GIBBs promote cell elongation instead of division, while jasmonates have no effect on cell size.


Temporal Control of Trichome Distribution by MicroRNA156-Targeted SPL Genes in Arabidopsis thaliana
Nan Yu, Wen-Juan Cai, Shucai Wang, Chun-Min Shan, Ling-Jian Wang, and Xiao-Ya Chena

The production and distribution of plant trichomes is temporally and spatially regulated. After entering into the flowering stage, Arabidopsis thaliana plants have progressively reduced numbers of trichomes on the inflorescence stem, and the floral organs are nearly glabrous. We show here that SQUAMOSA PROMOTER BINDING PROTEIN LIKE (SPL) genes, which define an endogenous flowering pathway and are targeted by microRNA 156 (miR156), temporally control the trichome distribution during flowering. Plants overexpressing miR156 developed ectopic trichomes on the stem and floral organs. By contrast, plants with elevated levels of SPLs produced fewer trichomes. During plant development, the increase in SPL transcript levels is coordinated with the gradual loss of trichome cells on the stem. The MYB transcription factor genes TRICHOMELESS1 (TCL1) and TRIPTYCHON (TRY) are negative regulators of trichome development. We show that SPL9 directly activates TCL1 and TRY expression through binding to their promoters and that this activation is independent of GLABROUS1 (GL1). The phytohormones cytokinin and gibberellin were reported to induce trichome formation on the stem and inflorescence via the C2H2 transcription factors GIS, GIS2, and ZFP8, which promote GL1 expression. We show that the GIS-dependent pathway does not affect the regulation of TCL1 and TRY by miR156-targeted SPLs, represented by SPL9. These results demonstrate that the miR156-regulated SPLs establish a direct link between developmental programming and trichome distribution.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2929091/


Functional Specialization of the TRANSPARENT TESTA GLABRA1 Network Allows Differential Hormonal Control of Laminal and Marginal Trichome Initiation in Arabidopsis Rosette Leaves
Lies Maes, Dirk Inzé and Alain Goossens

Trichome initiation in Arabidopsis (Arabidopsis thaliana) is controlled by the TRANSPARENT TESTA GLABRA1 (TTG1) network that consists of R2R3- and R1-type MYB-related transcription factors, basic helix-loop-helix (bHLH) proteins, and the WD40 protein TTG1. An experimental method was designed to investigate the molecular mechanisms by which jasmonates, cytokinins, and gibberellins modulate Arabidopsis leaf trichome formation. All three phytohormones provoked a seemingly common effect on cell patterning by promoting trichome initiation but caused strikingly distinct effects on cell and trichome maturation. The phytohormonal control was mediated by transcriptional regulation of the established TTG1 complex and depended on the R2R3-MYB factor GLABRA1. However, unsuspected degrees of functional specialization of the bHLH factors and a resultant differential molecular regulation of trichome initiation on leaf lamina and leaf margins were revealed. Trichome formation on leaf lamina relied entirely on GLABRA3 and ENHANCER OF GLABRA3. Conversely, TRANSPARENT TESTA8 (TT8) was particularly important for marginal trichome development. This hitherto unknown role for TT8 in trichome formation further underscored the functional redundancy between the three TTG1-dependent bHLH proteins.
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/148/3/1453.full


Integration of cytokinin and gibberellin signalling by Arabidopsis transcription factors GIS, ZFP8 and GIS2 in the regulation of epidermal cell fate
Yinbo Gan, Chang Liu, Hao Yu and Pierre Broun

The effective integration of hormone signals is essential to normal plant growth and development. Gibberellins (GA) and cytokinins act antagonistically in leaf formation and meristem maintenance and GA counteract some of the effects of cytokinins on epidermal differentiation. However, both can stimulate the initiation of defensive epidermal structures called trichomes. To understand how their relative influence on epidermal cell fate is modulated, we investigated the molecular mechanisms through which they regulate trichome initiation in Arabidopsis. The control by cytokinins of trichome production requires two genes expressed in late inflorescence organs, ZFP8 and GIS2, which encode C2H2 transcription factors related to GLABROUS INFLORESCENCE STEMS (GIS). Cytokinin-inducible GIS2 plays a prominent role in the cytokinin response, in which it acts downstream of SPINDLY and upstream of GLABROUS1. In addition, GIS2 and ZFP8 mediate, like GIS, the regulation of trichome initiation by gibberellins. By contrast, GIS does not play a significant role in the cytokinin response. Collectively, GIS, ZFP8 and GIS2, which encode proteins that are largely equivalent in function, play partially redundant and essential roles in inflorescence trichome initiation and in its regulation by GA and cytokinins. These roles are consistent with their pattern of expression and with the regional influence of GA and cytokinins on epidermal differentiation. Our findings show that functional specialization within a transcription factor gene family can facilitate the integration of different developmental cues in the regulation of plant cell differentiation.
http://dev.biologists.org/content/134/11/2073.full


Dissection of the phytohormonal regulation of trichome formation and biosynthesis of the antimalarial compound artemisinin in Artemisia annua plants.
Lies Maes, Filip C W Van Nieuwerburgh, Yansheng Zhang, Darwin W Reed, Jacob Pollier, Sofie R F Vande Casteele, Dirk Inzé, Patrick S Covello, Dieter L D Deforce, Alain Goossens

Biosynthesis of the sesquiterpene lactone and potent antimalarial drug artemisinin occurs in glandular trichomes of Artemisia annua plants and is subjected to a strict network of developmental and other regulatory cues. The effects of three hormones, jasmonate, gibberellin and cytokinin, were studied at the structural and molecular levels in two different A. annua chemotypes by microscopic analysis of gland development, and by targeted metabolite and transcript profiling. Furthermore, a genome-wide cDNA-amplified fragment length polymorphism (AFLP)-based transcriptome profiling was carried out of jasmonate-elicited leaves at different developmental stages. Although cytokinin and gibberellin positively affected at least one aspect of gland formation, these two hormones did not stimulate artemisinin biosynthesis. Only jasmonate simultaneously promoted gland formation and coordinated transcriptional activation of biosynthetic gene expression, which ultimately led to increased sesquiterpenoid accumulation with chemotype-dependent effects on the distinct pathway branches. Transcriptome profiling revealed a trichome-specific fatty acyl- coenzyme A reductase, trichome-specific fatty acyl-CoA reductase 1 (TFAR1), the expression of which correlates with trichome development and sesquiterpenoid biosynthesis. TFAR1 is potentially involved in cuticular wax formation during glandular trichome expansion in leaves and flowers of A. annua plants. Analysis of phytohormone-modulated transcriptional regulons provides clues to dissect the concerted regulation of metabolism and development of plant trichomes.
http://www.mendeley.com/research/di...-compound-artemisinin-artemisia-annua-plants/


Hormone-mediated promotion of trichome initiation in plants is conserved but utilizes species- and trichome-specific regulatory mechanisms
Lies Maes and Alain Goossens

Plant trichome initiation is steered by diverse developmental and environmental cues, through molecular mechanisms that remain elusive in most plant species. Using a robust experimental method to investigate the molecular mechanisms by which phytohormones modulate leaf trichome formation, we verified the effect of jasmonates, cytokinins and gibberellins in Arabidopsis (Arabidopsis thaliana). All three phytohormones promoted Arabidopsis trichome initiation, but caused divergent effects on trichome maturation and other leaf parameters. Molecular analysis indicated that the phytohormones mediated trichome initiation by the transcriptional regulation of the components of the TRANSPARENT TESTA GLABRA1 (TTG1) activator/inhibitor complex. In this addendum, we additionally studied the effects of jasmonates, cytokinins and gibberellins on leaf trichome formation in a representative set of plant species, spanning the angiosperm lineage and covering different trichome types. We found that the general ability of the three phytohormones to impinge on trichome initiation is conserved across angiosperms, but that within a particular plant species distinct regulatory networks might be activated to steer the formation of the various trichome types.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2884137/

6-Benzylaminopurine treatment induces increased pubescence on wheat leaves
Hidekazu Kobayashi, Mikiko Yanaka and Tatsuya M. Ikeda

The epidermis of wheat (Triticum aestivum L.) leaves contains trichomes that contribute to resistance to insect pests and drought tolerance. In the present study, we examined the effects of 6-benzylaminopurine (BA) and methyl jasmonate (MeJA) treatment on trichome development on the leaves of wheat cv. Norin 61 seedlings. Without phytohormone treatment, trichomes on the adaxial leaf surface were short (90 μm) and their density was low (3.6 trichomes/mm2). Both BA and MeJA treatments significantly increased the density of trichomes, and there were no significant differences between the phytohormone treatments. BA treatment increased trichome length to five times as long as that in the control, whereas MeJA treatment did not significantly affect trichome length. Since BA treatment concurrently increased the DNA content of the nuclei in trichome cells, endoreduplication of the nuclei is probably involved in trichome enlargement. These results indicate that even wheat cultivars with short trichomes retain the mechanisms for trichome enlargement and stimuli such as BA application can induce increased pubescence on wheat leaves.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/vk311113m3k25g11/
 

dizzlekush

Member
Ive removed the formulation for the BAP stock solution due to the dangers of formulating the solution. The below formulation quoted by 'shirami' that uses ethanol will work just fine, however methanol is a much much better option for C3 plants. if anyone would like to have the formulation, you can PM me. make sure you know ALL of the potential risks of Potassium Hydroxide and Methanol before considering formulation. I dont want anyone going blind from my ideas.

I suggest that most people buy a preformulated commercial solution like the ones mofeta has pointed out, or following the below formulation quoted by 'shirami.' One's more expensive, ones less optimal, but both are much safer and easier than formulating the optimal solution yourself.
 

shirami

Member
Soon i will make my own BAP stock solution. im going to make a half batch the first time in case anything goes wrong.

ALWAYS WEAR PROPER SKIN AND EYE PROTECTION WHEN HANDLING POTASSIUM HYDROXIDE.
(you should see how fast this stuff can melt an eyeball)

measure out 30ml of Ethanol
http://www.amazon.com/Reagent-Grade..._3?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1324281393&sr=1-3

Add 5.55g of Potassium Hydroxide (90% purity) [very caustic, will increase temperature of solution]
http://www.amazon.com/Grade-Devil-P..._1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1323907506&sr=1-1

Add 5g of 6-Benzylaminopurine (100% purity)
http://www.phytotechlab.com/detail.aspx?ID=141

Mix until BAP is completely dissolved and homogeneous solution is achieved.

Add 136.6ml of ethanol

Add distilled water to 500ml of working solution. mix until homogeneous solution is formed [still caustic. use proper skin, eye, and respiratory protection when spraying.]

Resulting concentration of active ingredients (by weight):
~1.00% BAP
~0.68% K

(assuming that SG is not changed significantly by formulation. once the actual formula is completed, i will be able to get a more accurate %)

Optionally non ionic surfactants and/or humic/fulvic acids can be added to the stock solution to increase the effectiveness of BAP. I will personally be adding such additives separately in the working solution, as there is the possibility of wanting free floating cations in certain working solutions for optimum effects, where the humic/fulvic and some NIS will chelate the cations and render the solution less effective.

Why use ethanol instead of water?
That amount will easily dissolve in water containing KOH.
 

dizzlekush

Member
Why use ethanol instead of water?
That amount will easily dissolve in water containing KOH.

Yes it will dissolve just fine to make a stock solution, but after poring over patents on BAP it became clear that BAP stock solutions made from H2O & KOH/NaOH have issues with BAP precipitating once the solution is diluted down to workable levels. the addition of EtOH allows the BAP to remain dissolved at all dilutions, while EtOH is harmless/possibly beneficial to C3 plants at such concentrations. It also gives the stock solution an indefinite shelf life. Im fairly certain significantly less EtOH could be used to achieve the same results, but id rather be on the safe side.

Patents of interest:

U.S. Patent #5455220
http://www.patents.com/us-5455220.html

EP Patent #EP1579768A1
http://www.patsnap.com/patents/view/EP1579768A1.html

U.S. Patent #5744424
http://www.everypatent.com/comp/pat5744424.html

U.S. Patent #4326877
http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/4326877.html
 

shirami

Member
Yes it will dissolve just fine to make a stock solution, but after poring over patents on BAP it became clear that BAP stock solutions made from H2O & KOH/NaOH have issues with BAP precipitating once the solution is diluted down to workable levels. the addition of EtOH allows the BAP to remain dissolved at all dilutions, while EtOH is harmless/possibly beneficial to C3 plants at such concentrations. It also gives the stock solution an indefinite shelf life. Im fairly certain significantly less EtOH could be used to achieve the same results, but id rather be on the safe side.

Patents of interest:

U.S. Patent # 5455220
http://www.patents.com/us-5455220.html

EP Patent # EP1579768A1
http://www.patsnap.com/patents/view/EP1579768A1.html

U.S. Patent # 5744424
http://www.everypatent.com/comp/pat5744424.html

U.S. Patent # 4326877
http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/4326877.html

I see. Thanks for the info.
 

dizzlekush

Member
Warnings about working with Potassium/Sodium Hydroxide (lye)

Warnings about working with Potassium/Sodium Hydroxide (lye)

ever seen the movie Fight Club? remember the white powder that Brad Pitt poured on Edward Norton's hand that badly scarred Edwards hand?! meet the commercially used alkali metal hydrates; potassium hydroxide (KOH, Caustic Potash, potash lye potassium hydrate) and sodium hydroxide (NaOH, caustic soda, lye, sodiun hydrate). you should see how fast this stuff can melt an eyeball. permanent blindness in 15 seconds, water makes the reaction worse.
Pictures of alkali metal hydroxide burns (2nd picture is graphic)
scars from KOH skin burn http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...tart=0&ndsp=9&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=105&ty=21
permanent eye damage from NaOH http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...14&tbnw=164&start=0&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0 (image might be disturbing to some)
DO NOT TAKE THIS STUFF LIGHTLY! i hope i am not violating any TOU by posting those links, the only intention is to show how seriously certain chemicals need to be taken.

here are some rules and guidelines to follow when handling alkali metal hydroxides

"When using lye... follow some simple cautions. Never add water to lye because it will react violently and may splatter. Always add lye slowly to cool water and wear protective clothing such as long gloves. Lye will react with metals such as aluminum, cast iron, and steel. It should be stored and mixed in ceramic, stoneware, glass, or heat-resistant plastic containers. Glass should be used with caution because it may break due to the heat released when lye reacts. Because of the fumes formed, work in a well ventilated area when making lye solutions and don't breathe the fumes. Goggles and protective clothing such as chemical resistant gloves, are a good idea. Utensils used with lye need to be wooden or heat-proof plastic and both they, and any pots used should never be used for food items again. Any containers used to store lye or lye solutions should be adequately marked and kept in safe locations. When working with lye keep a bowl of vinegar nearby to splash on any skin it might get on. Vinegar will counteract lye and stop its burning. Milk will also neutralize lye and can be used if it is accidentally swallowed or gotten into the eye. If either of these thing happen call 911 immediately and get medical help. Do not induce vomiting or give vinegar to someone who has swallowed lye. If lye get on the skin flush it with lots of water with some salt if there is no vinegar. The same goes for the eyes flush them repeatedly with water [with salt]"
http://www.ehow.com/how_4742114_use-safely-understand-its-dangers.html
 

iCE-E

New member
I have bin lurking some of the treads here at, Cannabis Botany and Advanced Growing Science. And it could be interesting to using a mixture of BAP, MeJa, and Methanol.

but I have to read more about BAP, and MeJa.

and do you have any idea why in one of the studies thy used 15% coconut milk?
 

PlantsAndStuff

New member
@blueberrydrumz

Its actually even cheaper from Phytotech:
http://www.phytotechlab.com/detail.aspx?ID=141

The ebay source is from plantsandstuff.com so heres the options from plantsandstuff.com:
http://plantsandstuff.com/Products.html

the ebay option is a little more than double the price... they probably got their chemicals from Phytotech or Caymen or something and are just trying to make a few bucks being a useless middleman.

Hello, Im the owner and operator of Plants And Stuff. and Im here to set things straight.

First of all, I AM cheaper on that hormone and every other that we both sell. Yeah phyto's price is $8.75 Did you notice the shipping cost? The cheapest option was more then $10! Do you really think the are spending the entire $10 for a package that weighs less then 2 ounces? Not a chance. Your total price is more then $18.00 from them.

My price is $12.95 +1.75 shipping on that and most of my products of similar size(5g) Your total price with us is $14.75 and my shipping service will get you order to you most of the time in only 3 days not 5-7 days like phyto's fedex ground shipping. And un like phyto, every bit of the shipping I get goes to purchasing a shipping label. I make zero dollars from shipping, some items are even offered with FREE shipping.

Not only that but with PlantsAndStuff you are getting so much more then just the hormones. You will get detailed instructions on how to reach just about any useful ppm strength(with out using an expensive .001g scale), Storage, dissolving and application instructions. Plus a knowledgeable staff that is ready and willing to help you with questions. Try getting that from Cayman Chemical or Phyto. They'll tell you to go read a book.

Now look at Phyto's gibberellic acid 90% $91 PER GRAM! You'll pay only $14.95+$4.95 shipping with us and you will get 5 GRAMS GA3 90% plus detailed usage instructions. We even can tell you how to make a hermi plant so you can create 100% fem seeds if you ask us nicely :)

But as instructions go, every one of out product have them. Clearly we are no "Useless middle man". If you find a better price, we'll beat it unless its wholesale of course. However if you were to buy sufficient quantity, we could probably beat that too.
 
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dizzlekush

Member
Hello, Im the owner and operator of Plants And Stuff. and Im here to set things straight.

First of all, I AM cheaper on that hormone and every other that we both sell. Yeah phyto's price is $8.75 Did you notice the shipping cost? The cheapest option was more then $10! Do you really think the are spending the entire $10 for a package that weighs less then 2 ounces? Not a chance. Your total price is more then $18.00 from them.

My price is $12.95 +1.75 shipping on that and most of my products of similar size(5g) Your total price with us is $14.75 and my shipping service will get you order to you most of the time in only 3 days not 5-7 days like phyto's fedex ground shipping. And un like phyto, every bit of the shipping I get goes to purchasing a shipping label. I make zero dollars from shipping, some items are even offered with FREE shipping.

Not only that but with PlantsAndStuff you are getting so much more then just the hormones. You will get detailed instructions on how to reach just about any useful ppm strength(with out using an expensive .001g scale), Storage, dissolving and application instructions. Plus a knowledgeable staff that is ready and willing to help you with questions. Try getting that from Cayman Chemical or Phyto. They'll tell you to go read a book.

Now look at Phyto's gibberellic acid 90% $91 PER GRAM! You'll pay only $14.95+$4.95 shipping with us and you will get 5 GRAMS GA3 90% plus detailed usage instructions. We even can tell you how to make a hermi plant so you can create 100% fem seeds if you ask us nicely :)

But as instructions go, every one of out product have them. Clearly we are no "Useless middle man". If you find a better price, we'll beat it unless its wholesale of course. However if you were to buy sufficient quantity, we could probably beat that too.

Fair enough, was rude of me to say such a thing. however...

I purchased 25g from Phytotech labs for $39 shipping and handling included, IIRC your prices were roughly double that about a month ago at $79 for 25 grams.

I now know that you bought your inventory from Michel, the owner of super-grow and since then the Triacontanol you purchased from him magically got more concentrated and when from 85% (super-grow) to 90% (according to you). For me, that alone destroyed all your credibility as a reputable source for PGR's. I need to know that the accuracy of the purity of the product im buying is accurate at least to the 0.1% for me to be able to do experimentation with some accuracy.

Colloidal silver, silver nitrate and silver thoisulfate are better at inducing fertile male flowers on a female cannabis plant than Gibberellins, but im interested in what you consider a proper GA3 dosage to "make a hermi" as you say. BTW the 'stretch' that GA3 induces (cell elongation with out proper replication) is considered a negative side effect for cannabis growers.

BTW i have been contacted by multiple people about sourcing TRIA and i always bring you up as the cheapest option, so im not as much of a hater of you, the middle man, as it might seem.

Care to comment?
 

PoopyTeaBags

State Liscensed Care Giver/Patient, Assistant Trai
Veteran
this is on a dioecious plant that was originally genetically male. In Cannabis sativa, cytokinins induce female flowering while gibberellins induce male flowering. Spraying BAP on a female marijuana plant will do nothing but induce more female flowers, not cause hermaphroditic characteristics. however spraying BAP on a male marijuana plant could cause hermaphroditic characteristics.



One thing of interest though is all the pre-formulated BAP mixes that are around 1.9-2% all say to not spray within 84 days of harvest. after poring over toxicology info one more time i still cant find any reasoning for this 84 day restriction, nor can i find any regulation stating the 84 day requirement for consumable crops. anybody know anything about this?


does this mean we can use it on our male plants to get completely female flowers???
 

PlantsAndStuff

New member
Fair enough, was rude of me to say such a thing. however...

I purchased 25g from Phytotech labs for $39 shipping and handling included, IIRC your prices were roughly double that about a month ago at $79 for 25 grams.

I now know that you bought your inventory from Michel, the owner of super-grow and since then the Triacontanol you purchased from him magically got more concentrated and when from 85% (super-grow) to 90% (according to you). For me, that alone destroyed all your credibility as a reputable source for PGR's. I need to know that the accuracy of the purity of the product im buying is accurate at least to the 0.1% for me to be able to do experimentation with some accuracy.

Colloidal silver, silver nitrate and silver thoisulfate are better at inducing fertile male flowers on a female cannabis plant than Gibberellins, but im interested in what you consider a proper GA3 dosage to "make a hermi" as you say. BTW the 'stretch' that GA3 induces (cell elongation with out proper replication) is considered a negative side effect for cannabis growers.

BTW i have been contacted by multiple people about sourcing TRIA and i always bring you up as the cheapest option, so im not as much of a hater of you, the middle man, as it might seem.

Care to comment?
My prices are what they are. I dont have hundreds of items to sell to make up for it. But you still dont get any instructions from the other company. You may not need them but I can almost guarantee that 95%+ of the people here, would need them. Beside that, my price is $79 for 50 grams. look, its right on the front page http://www.plantsandstuff.com/Products.html its always been that price.

OK about Mikes inventory. I didnt get it. Super-grow blames us for his business failing. Personally I think he wanted to take his $100k inheritance and live like a king in the Philippines. Needless to say, they wouldnt consider selling to us. About Mikes 85% TRI. The product is rated at 80% minimum guaranteed purity and 90% and 99.99999% He ordered 80% product and probably got it consistently at around 85% so thats what he labeled it. Maybe he lies, who knows? I know he marked his NAA-NA as NAA-AA because -NA stands for sodium naphthalene acetic acid salt. He deliberately labeled it NAA-AA to hide that fact that its a sodium salt. There's NAA-NA and NAA-k that are water soluble, k is potassium. No AA.
My PGR are always fresh. I buy small lots at a time several time per year so its never more then a few months old. Its always straight from the manufacture to me. And like I said, I'll beat any price. I can produce a certificate of analysis(COA) to prove purity and freshness.

OK about the plant that has both male and female parts. Well call it that since you dont like the term "hermi" or hermaphrodite.
OK so to make one the the aforementioned unnamed plants. spray it once a day for 10 days with 100ppm GA3. I cant speak to the colloidal.

Now about using GA3 in growth. Hit it with 200ppm when it first start producing flowers. Only spray it once. A day before you do that give it bloom booster fertilizer with fulvic acid and compound L-Amino acid fertilizer, if your arent already doing that. It will induce heavy blooming. Now if you spray it when its already flowering, use 75ppm strength. You wont see much stretching but it should keep flowering for you for the next 2-3 months. Now different strains might act differently but I think it unlikely. However, you just wont know until you experiment. Which is what this is all about anyway, in my opinion.
 
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dizzlekush

Member
Now about using GA3 in growth. Hit it with 200ppm when it first start producing flowers. Only spray it once. A day before you do that give it bloom booster fertilizer with fulvic acid and compound L-Amino acid fertilizer, if your arent already doing that. It will induce heavy blooming. Now if you spray it when its already flowering, use 75ppm strength. You wont see much stretching but it should keep flowering for you for the next 2-3 months. Now different strains might act differently but I think it unlikely. However, you just wont know until you experiment. Which is what this is all about anyway, in my opinion.

P&S i gotta disagree with everything you say except suggesting people use fulvic acid. Applying ANY amounts of GA3 to cannabis in the bloom phase will drastically increase internodal stretch, which is again, heavily frowned upon for cannabis growers. Also applying "Bloom Fertilizer" which im guessing is characterized by high phosphorous (sometimes potassium) content is also a bad idea during the beginning of bloom as again, high P (and NH4) increases internodal stretch. Cannabis growers hate the stretch (and gibberellins for that matter) so much that paclobutrazol, daminozide, and chlormequat chloride is often used in cannabis cultivation, which i don't agree with being used on consumables.

Also applying free form (not batch chelated to cations) L amino acids has little, to no, to negative effects on growth. a small amount of L-form amino chelated micros (combined with other forms of chelation) can be beneficial and Glycine chelation is useful for foliar application, but all these silly amino acid products are useless.

All sounds like some good advice for growing grapes though... except for the aminos.

Im curious, What PPM of BAP and Triacontanol would you suggest for cannabis if the BAP application would take place once in early bloom, and the TRIA application would be every two weeks from micro-propagation to harvest?

does this mean we can use it on our male plants to get completely female flowers???
No, poopy, but you can use BAP, other cytokinins, Ethephon and possibly Auxins (stay away from 2,4-D & 2,4,5-T etc.) to induce hermaphroditic flowering (combination of both male & female) on your genetically male cannabis plant. IDK about viable fertility of female flowers, all offspring would be male if plant went to seed, and potency would be less than females of the same phenotype.
 

PlantsAndStuff

New member
P&S i gotta disagree with everything you say except suggest people use fulvic acid. Applying ANY amounts of GA3 to cannabis in the bloom phase will drastically increase internodal stretch, which is again, heavily frowned upon for cannabis growers. Also applying "Bloom Fertilizer" which im guessing is characterized by high phosphorous (sometimes potassium) content is also a bad idea during the beginning of bloom as again, high P (and NH4) increases internodal stretch.

Also applying free form (not batch chelated to cations) L amino acids has little, to no, to negative effects on growth. a small amount of L-form amino chelated micros (combined with other forms of chelation) can be beneficial and Glycine chelation is useful for foliar application, but all these silly amino acid products are useless.

Im curious, What PPM of BAP and Triacontanol would you suggest for cannabis if the BAP application would take place once in early bloom, and the TRIA application would be every two weeks from micro-propagation to harvest?
Look, Im no expert on cannabis. I make recommendations on how I know the products work. Iv found that everything you read about this stuff isnt always accurate Either. Its best to do your own experiments. My customers all reported well on my recommendations.

I have to disagree with you on the stretching. Its stretching because you are making it too strong. If you use a lower ppm and mix it with TRI, it will stretch side ways too (fatter). In theory of course. It works with other plants, Ive never grown Cannabis as it isnt legal for me to do so at this time. and I dont know that a little stretching is frowned upon. Ive had people ask me how to make thier plants taller. Anyway, I wasnt writting today to get into an in depth conversation about this topic though. I was addressing a comment that made PlantsAndStuff look bad. I tend to take that personal as I am the person who started it.

If you want to talk about it more, send me an email. I believe you are in the same user group as me. You have my mail still.
 

PlantsAndStuff

New member
P&S i gotta disagree with everything you say except suggest people use fulvic acid. Applying ANY amounts of GA3 to cannabis in the bloom phase will drastically increase internodal stretch, which is again, heavily frowned upon for cannabis growers. Also applying "Bloom Fertilizer" which im guessing is characterized by high phosphorous (sometimes potassium) content is also a bad idea during the beginning of bloom as again, high P (and NH4) increases internodal stretch.

Also applying free form (not batch chelated to cations) L amino acids has little, to no, to negative effects on growth. a small amount of L-form amino chelated micros (combined with other forms of chelation) can be beneficial and Glycine chelation is useful for foliar application, but all these silly amino acid products are useless.

Im curious, What PPM of BAP and Triacontanol would you suggest for cannabis if the BAP application would take place once in early bloom, and the TRIA application would be every two weeks from micro-propagation to harvest?
Look, Im no expert on cannabis. I make recommendations on how I know the products work. Iv found that everything you read about this stuff isnt always accurate Either. Its best to do your own experiments. My customers all reported well on my recommendations.

I have to disagree with you on the stretching. Its stretching because you are making it too strong. If you use a lower ppm and mix it with TRI, it will stretch side ways too (fatter). In theory of course. It works with other plants, Ive never grown Cannabis as it isnt legal for me to do so at this time and I dont know that a little stretching is frowned upon. Ive had people ask me how to make thier plants taller. Heres some info, I just garnered "some gardeners prefer a bit of stretch to allow budsites to fill in adequately. Buds with perfect density can be grown by controlling stretch." And ,"Stretch is a problem primarily in indoor grows... The problem stems from the limitations of artificial light and the plant’s adaptations to low light." "Encouraging stretch can be a good technique to prevent budrot in susceptible strains and massive colas. Elongated buds are less dense, and the humidity within buds is reduced."
Out door plants will do much better.



Anyway, I wasnt writting today to get into an in depth conversation about this topic though. I was addressing a comment that made PlantsAndStuff look bad. I tend to take that personal as I am the person who started it.

If you want to talk about it more, send me an email. I believe you are in the same user group as me. You have my mail still.
 

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