-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
gibberellin + jasmonic acid = more trichomes?
- Thread starter OldMan&theWeed
- Start date
I don't have any pics on hand of plants sprayed with MeJA, but I will in the near future. I am buying a fancy new camera soon, and I plan to take pics with my microscope camera when quantifying trich density of MeJA and MDHJ spayed plants verses controls. Oswizzle might have some close up shots of trich coverage on MDHJ sprayed plants.
For anecdotal evidence, see what Oldman&theWeed, Oswizzle and I have posted in this thread.
D
DonkDBZ
Got my Jaz in a few days ago. Currently on day 17 of Flower. So when would be best time to use Jaz? Old Man did 4th week.
One thing I wonder is will it cause a decrease in Yield? Since it makes the plant think its being attacked and increase tric production. Will it interfere with the "2nd Swell" you can induce 3 weeks before harvest with some bloom boosters.
Anyways I got 2 blueberrys I will use one as control.
Any opinions on when and how often? If not just going with end of 4th week
One thing I wonder is will it cause a decrease in Yield? Since it makes the plant think its being attacked and increase tric production. Will it interfere with the "2nd Swell" you can induce 3 weeks before harvest with some bloom boosters.
Anyways I got 2 blueberrys I will use one as control.
Any opinions on when and how often? If not just going with end of 4th week
OldMan&theWeed
Member
DonkDBZ,
From what I've read Jasmonic Acid stunts growth through the suppression of mitosis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19002244
I think it's a very sly method of increasing trichome production. Just realize that you are tricking the plant into thinking it's being attacked by insects. This carries other ramifications other than increased trichome production. Since the trade off for thrichomes is arrested growth, TIMING is important factor for a successful use of Jasmonates.
I put it on when the vast majority of your calyx development is completed, and for my strain, that's four weeks.
From what I've read Jasmonic Acid stunts growth through the suppression of mitosis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19002244
I think it's a very sly method of increasing trichome production. Just realize that you are tricking the plant into thinking it's being attacked by insects. This carries other ramifications other than increased trichome production. Since the trade off for thrichomes is arrested growth, TIMING is important factor for a successful use of Jasmonates.
I put it on when the vast majority of your calyx development is completed, and for my strain, that's four weeks.
I prefer spraying during pre-flowering and early flowering, every two weeks up to about the 4th week. There is no hard and fast rules, this is a new PGR for cannabis growers, so we are blazing trials; try what you think would work and let us know the results.
I have not seen a decrease in yield, but MeJA could reduce stretch if applied at high(ish) ppm during pre-flowering. However, the potential reduction in growth is not due to the plant 'thinking it's being attacked'; AFAIK, the potential reduced growth is due to direct affect from exogenous application of jasmonates via effecting cell division, i.e., mitoses, like Om&tW posted about above. In the study Om&tW posted, and some others I have read, endogenous jasmonates (i.e., JA) are increased after biotic attack, and the increase in JA in turn, can hinder growth.
That said, most studies I have read seem to provide evidence that JA can hinder growth rates more so than MeJA; I have not used JA, only MeJA...
FWIW, endogenous JA is needed for ISR (Induced Systemic Resistance). ISR is activated by some soil microbes. However, exogenous application of jasmonate (JA or MeJA or MDHJ) does not active ISR, AFAIK. Albeit, there is scant work I could find on the subject of exogenous application of jasmonates and ISR. So it's possible ISR is activated by exogenous application of (some) jasmonates. When SAR (Systemic Systemic Resistance) is induced by using SA, chitosan, biotic attack, etc., the plant goes into 'survival mode' and often increases growth rate.
AFAIK trichomes are not increased (in number) due to the plant 'thinking' it's under attack, or by activation of ISR. To my understanding, and I could be missing something, exogenous application of JA gets converted (in part) into MeJA once inside the plant, and the increased MeJA is what increases trich density (production). I assume the same is true for exogenous application of MDHJ. AFAIU, the process is analogous to giving the plant fertilizers to increase growth; e.g., giving the plant jasmontes increases growth (number) of trichomes due to increased MeJA.
I am pretty sure the increased defense against biotic and abiotic attack and stress (respectively), from exogenous application of jasmonates (JA, MeJA and MDHJ) are separate phenomena from the increase in trichomes from increased MeJA inside the plant. AFAIK, there is normally high concentrations of MeJA found in flowers.
I am not sure application of MeJA and MDHJ will have the same effect on potentially reduced growth rate as JA; not all jasmonates are equal. I have read work that MeJA can hinder growth, but IIRC, growth is hinder more greatly from JA, than MeJA. I for one like using MeJA during pre-flowering for it's potential to reduce growth rate that in turn could reduce stretch...kind of like using a low-power PGR (Plant Growth Retardant).
In my testing I have not seen noticeably reduced growth rate from application of MeJA at pre-flowering. That said, I haven not looked for reduced growth rates by measuring the plants...so I could be missing something that is not plainly obvious.
@ Oswizzle:
Have you seen reduced growth from application of MDHJ during pre-flowering? IIRC you have applied it during pre-flowering, no?
OldMan&theWeed
Member
When I use words like "think" I'm being metaphorical.
I kind of understand the JA process at work here. Every scientific paper on the subject has a brief explanation, but the intricacies are more than I care to dwell on. It's enough for me to know that JAZ spray = frosty buds. I'll leave it up to the more scientifically trained minds here to grapple with the mechanisms at work. I'm grateful that there are people like Spurr here.
WoodElephant
Member
Hi spurr,
Just wondering if you made the call(s) and what the word was. I'd like to apply this to my ladies.
searching for a source of jasmonic acid organically i came across a couple of plants. Parsley, tea and orange are some that contain it(in high enough concentrations). I know that these are produced naturally in plants as a protective response, but can we extract them?
I'd like to try this with parsley since its already high in many nutrients and JA(may not the specific type needed) ; it could make a good extract for plants as it is though.
To go about this would you first extract using an alcohol and than dilute as necessary after a certain amount of time? Or is there more to extracting, such as a required plant action to potentate the response of production?
I'd like to try this with parsley since its already high in many nutrients and JA(may not the specific type needed) ; it could make a good extract for plants as it is though.
To go about this would you first extract using an alcohol and than dilute as necessary after a certain amount of time? Or is there more to extracting, such as a required plant action to potentate the response of production?
Yes I called Sigma and also another source of "neat oil" (solvent free) MeJA from Cyman Chem (link; thanks Xerhoss). Buying from eitehr Sigma or Cyman is harder than buying from Phytotech. For both Sigma or Cyman you need to place an order via a business or educational institution; for Phytotech you can place on order as an individual if you can tell them what type of study you are conducting (with sufficient detail).
All in all, ordering from Phytotech is the better route it seems, but phytotech is more expensive. I may know of a compnay that will start selling MeJA and some other PGRs to individuals without a lot of restrictions in the near(ish) future; I am also going to ask the super-grow start carrying MeJA.
1. FWIW, below is quickly written basic directions (from memory; forgive errors please) for mixing up solutions of MeJA. Here (link) is a good page about making stock solutions; and here (link) is a good page about solutions/mixtures in general.
- Assuming we are using 25 ppm MeJA (as an example), we would need 25 mg in 1 liter of water (distilled or deionized is best), i.e., 25 mg/L.
- MeJA is ~95% pure, thus: (25 mg/L)/.95 = 26.31578947 mg/L of 95% pure MeJA is needed to reach 25 ppm MeJA.
- 26.31578947 mg/L = 0.02631578947 g/L
- Density of MeJA is 1.03 g/mL
- (0.02631578947 g/L)/1.03 g/mL = 0.0255493102 ml/L (i.e., ~0.026 ml/L)
- Thus we would need 0.026 mL of 95% pure MeJA neat oil per liter of water to get ~25 ppm
2. However, we also need to dissolve MeJA into EtOH (ethyl alcohol) to mix it with water as a solution, thus:
- 30 mg of MeJA can be made miscible in 1 mL of EtOH
- Using 0.026 mL of MeJA from above (i.e., ~26.32 mg) we would use just under 1 mL (i.e., ~0.877 mL) of EtOH
- Thus we would use 0.9 mL EtOH to dissolve 0.026 mL MeJA for 1 liter of water for a solution of 25 ppm MeJA.
3. Because MeJA comes as a neat fluid, using volume is easier than weight IMO. For measuring < 1 mL of liquid (i.e., < 1 cc; 1 mL = 1 cc) one can use a syringe, like an insulin syringe you can buy at a drug store.
4. Using a surfactant/emulsifier with the foliar spay is also a good idea, I have tested tween 20 (polysorbte 20) in the past, and I know Triton x-100 is also good; both can be used at 1.25-2.5 mL/L.
5. Here is an example of making a stock solution of MeJA (or JA):
Using MeJA is not for people who want to do things with least complexity; that is why I am happy Oswizzle and Oldman&theWeed tested Jaz spray (MDHJ). Buying and using Jaz spray is very simple, and is the route I think most people should take; at least until there are stock solutions and/or ready-to-use solutions of MeJA made available for sale to laypersons...
bugler
Member
phytotech has sold me many items as an individual, never with any question as to what I was doing with them. The statement for their meja is different than most of their other PGR's and other items I have ordered, but having done a fair bit of business with them I'd honestly be pretty surprised if they refused to ship it to an established customer. At what point do they quiz you? Because I can add the stuff to my cart and start to check out without any notice of paperwork required or anything.
So far as sigma. Bah! How I would love to just be able to have them ship anything I needed! Sigma will definitely be a no go for anyone who doesn't already have an educational or industrial account...
So far as sigma. Bah! How I would love to just be able to have them ship anything I needed! Sigma will definitely be a no go for anyone who doesn't already have an educational or industrial account...
Nice thread all.
I did a simple google and one of the top links was this site: http://www.methyljasmonate.com/main.html , obviously sketchy, but who knows?
I also hope super-grow picks it up, I think they are on vacation though.
Looking forward to all the testing!
I did a simple google and one of the top links was this site: http://www.methyljasmonate.com/main.html , obviously sketchy, but who knows?
I also hope super-grow picks it up, I think they are on vacation though.
Looking forward to all the testing!
For MeJA they send you an email asking what your going to use the MeJA for, what type of study, species, etc. See the bottom of this post for the email an Ic member received from PTL when ordering MeJA.
The Ic member told me PTL sent the order out, even though he/she didn't tell PTL what he was going to use MeJA for; even afer they sent him/her the email. When I got MeJA they didn't ask me squat, just sent it; but that was some time ago.
P.S. I found to keep MeJA stable for long periods of time (>1 year) it should be kept at -20'C; a DIY dry ice freezer would work (some companies ship it in -20'C wet ice). Or put it in the freezer for shorter term usage.
Here is the email from PTL, it would be easy enough to send them an outline for a fake study.
That site is from Australia, and here is one from the UK: link.
Cool, so now people in various parts of the world can get MeJA, too.
D
DonkDBZ
Sprayed one of my Blueberrys day 21. Day 24 now and it smells more then the other that I did not spray. Used Jaz at 1/2 str. Growth and frostiness looks same on both. (eyeball method)
ganjasuiteseat
Member
t
stoneyriver
New member
methyl jasmonate
methyl jasmonate
Spider mites (Tetranychus urticae) perform poorly on and disperse from plants exposed to methyl jasmonate
Charles L. Rohwer1* & John E. Erwin2
1University of Minnesota Southern Research and Outreach Center, 35838 120th St., Waseca, MN 56093, USA, and 2Department of Horticultural Sciences, University of Minnesota, 305 Alderman Hall, 1970 Folwell Avenue, St. Paul, MN 55108, USA
Accepted: 21 July 2010 Keywords:induced
study (.pdf) here:
http://www.floriculturealliance.org/downloads_process.asp?sID=12345&cID=4&fID=491&dID=232
other good data....
http://www.floriculturealliance.org
methyl jasmonate
Spider mites (Tetranychus urticae) perform poorly on and disperse from plants exposed to methyl jasmonate
Charles L. Rohwer1* & John E. Erwin2
1University of Minnesota Southern Research and Outreach Center, 35838 120th St., Waseca, MN 56093, USA, and 2Department of Horticultural Sciences, University of Minnesota, 305 Alderman Hall, 1970 Folwell Avenue, St. Paul, MN 55108, USA
Accepted: 21 July 2010 Keywords:induced
study (.pdf) here:
http://www.floriculturealliance.org/downloads_process.asp?sID=12345&cID=4&fID=491&dID=232
other good data....
http://www.floriculturealliance.org
stoneyriver
New member
also found this:
Elicitors of plant defence include the plant signalling molecules salicylic acid (SA) and methyl jasmonate (MeJA), and some rhizobacteria.
wonder what SA does to cannabis?
Elicitors of plant defence include the plant signalling molecules salicylic acid (SA) and methyl jasmonate (MeJA), and some rhizobacteria.
wonder what SA does to cannabis?
