Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

I'm pretty sure I've seen these in a garden in Canada/Ontario.

Does anyone know of a product available in Canada that has imid or what ever is needed to kill these buggers DEAD. I can't find Bayer or Ortho at Home Depot or Canadian Tire. Thx.

I found this stuff That has pyrethrins, and this stuff which claims to kill everything, but no info on what chemical it uses... Thanks!

I'm in the process of setting up a time to obtain new babies. Before I bring in any thing I will disinfect and sanitize the whole room But now I would like to prepare my to do's and get my prep in order. What would be the best solution for avoiding these critters? Would it be pretreating with Imid while in veg? Or obtaining and using "microherds or Botanaguard" while in veg?
I'm still not sure if this last batch will survive. I can not let this happen again. Any help will be appreciated.

BigSwifty said:

OK, so does anyone know if these eggs laid in the buds are viable? I thought I even read somewhere that the flyers give livebirth?


So do these babies born in the buds survive???

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Here is an amusing(and possibly terrifying) story:
I sell just enough herb to pay my costs. My patients(and myself) get all they can smoke for free and the leftovers get sold to a dispensary. I always vend to the same place because they are always ready to take my weeds. Well yesterday I go in there to get rid of a couple zips and while I was sitting on the couch waiting I notice an aphid flying around me! I'm like "shit, these little fuckers are following me around!". Then I notice that the houseplants in the lobby have been infested... and the place doesnt sell clones.

Do you think it was possible that eggs on my buds I sold them hatched and infested their houseplants?!

icmag.is.#1 said:

So far I have not seen any fliers since the removal. although, Chances are high that there's one of those little bastards in another pot about to pop out a few children I hope not because I really dont want to scrap this grow.

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Oh I would bet my ass they are in all your pots. There shouldnt be any reason to scrap the grow, though. How long do you have left until harvest?

Fat J said:

Imidachlorpid - more specifically Bayer Citrus - was my magic bullet - did a pyreth spray too but they came right back - treated with imid, they r gone...

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Yep, "Complete Insect Killer" with Imid worked for me. I dont know what these other guys are doing wrong.

Neo 420 said:

What would be the best solution for avoiding these critters? Would it be pretreating with Imid while in veg? Or obtaining and using "microherds or Botanaguard" while in veg?
I'm still not sure if this last batch will survive. I can not let this happen again. Any help will be appreciated.

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I am nearly certain that Imid pretreatments will work. If you do it correctly, the Imid will stay in the plant for 30 days give or take. In this time, any population of aphids should in theory be gone. Since their life cycle is only around 2 weeks MAX, 30 days should be enough to break the cycle.

I am not tearing down and sterilizing. I run a perpetual and its not an option for me. These treatments must work.

How close do you really have to look to make sure you have these? The system I'm dealing with is DWC, and the root mass has been looked through briefly with a 30x scope and nothing was found. From what I understand from this thread by the time the plants are showing symptoms the aphids would be almost visible to the naked eye, correct? All the pics I've seen they don't exactly look microscopic so a look through with your eyes and a 30x should let you know if you have them or not? These plants are showing Ca and Mg def but the pH and EC are perfect...so going by all these posts root aphids would be likely, just can't find any!

Can people who had them in hydro..DWC in particular, chime in as to how hard they are to find and where to look?

Thanks guys

I have to stare for a hard and long time but it's easier with my naked eye than any magnification. I blow across the surface and when the soil stops moving I look for any movement. It'll be a bug.

Equilibrium: The bigger thing is a crane fly ('mosquito-hawk/eater'). The smaller things is too hard to tell because your photo sucks ;-)

In the photo it appears to be too large to be an aphid or even fungus gnat, but it is hard to tell. Its legs look like gnat-legs, though. Take a better photo - use a macro lens/shot.

That kind of yellowing/rusting looks quite different from what I have (yours seems to happen almost exclusively along the edges, where mine generally happens more from the inside of the leaf and with less yellowing). In my problem, the upper half of the leaf will still be green while the edges and tips (bottom half of the leaf) go necrotic.

Sorry I can't help more.

Humble1: Thanks for the heads up, appreciate it.

Foco: Was talking about both. But obviously they are not root aphids.

BigSwifty: Thanks. It seems like a complicate situation indeed. I like how you plan to fight these things. May take some ideas from you.

Spleebale: Thanks man, a crane fly, who would have guessed? About the little one, I own a domestic camera so I cannot really take macro shots. I'm gonna try to take one better anyway.
Do you think gnats can cause leaves to go bad like mines?
You helped a lot already, thanks.


So today I bought some pyrethrum and insecticidal soap, mixed the both of them in a large bucket and drenched my 13 plants. Thank god I don't have more for now, what a pain in the ass.
I actually took out the whole plant off her pot to get them a better soak.
I only saw white living things in 2 of them. The rest of the plants were clean but i could swear there were some "bodies" on the other pots that looked like the living things, only dead.
Does the fungus gnats larvaes live on the soil? Could it be that I'm actually fighting gnats and not root aphids? I don't really know what to think anymore.


By the way many thanks to all the people who answered and helped me, that's what we need in hard times like that.

Eqil:
-Pyrethrum is not a great approach, from most people's results. Insecticidal soap is supposed to work pretty well, but I think dunks are better than drenches (at least 2 min of submersion, making sure they don't escape to the stem - ebb and flow trays are a nice, easy way to achieve this).

-Fungus gnats are common to indoor grows. They can be a nuisance and in high populations their larvae can do pretty bad harm to roots (especially in conjunction with fungus they tend to bring). They are a completely separate pest, although it does seem more likely that they show up when you have root aphids - I think decaying roots give off a smell that attracts them. They are neither an indicator of root aphids nor a signal that you do not have them.

ANTS however, are a very good indicator of aphids. If the ants are marching down into the soil, that is pretty much a dead-givaeaway.

Fungus gnats look more like miniature mosquitoes. They tend to bob around as they fly, as though they are not great at it, and wind interrupts their flight far more than aphids, which are stronger fliers. Fungus gnats can be around and never really be a problem.

Larvae of root aphids look like tiny little crabs (they do not have as many legs and have a tilted sort of look, like crabs). The smaller they are, the more invisible/transparent they are. If you see a bunch of dead bodies, they are probably root aphids (especially if they have legs)

Larvae of fungus gnats are little worm-like creatures with mostly transparent bodies and big, black heads. Typically their heads are the only thing you will see, and generally only in systems where you can pull out the plant and inspect the roots - mostly only hydro/aero. When looking at roots with the naked eye, a fungus gnat larvae or an adult (non-winged) root aphid will look very similar - like a small speck of pepper. When you look up close, however, you will see that the root aphid has many little legs and two little "exhaust-pipe" cornicles poking off of its butt, where the fungus gnat larvae will be a black head with a clear worm-like body.

Good luck. My condolences either way. Hope we help you to kick whatever it is.

I'm pretty sure I am dealing with peach aphids.

.

milehighmedical said:

BigSwifty - I saw a bunch of dead ones when I watered with spectracide, but I can't see well enough to identify them 100% without a magnifying glass.

Also, my imid treatment was ineffective. Absolutely no effect. Fuck.

How long have you guys been letting your plants suffer before you harvest? I'm still having bud growth, but most of the fan leaves are dead or dying. The yellowing hasn't gotten to the buds. But I've never seen that happen before anyways. I don't see how it could effect the quality of the bud from what it is now until it's literally almost dead. Right?

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I hate to say this but you gotta know, you dosed them with the IMID, if they are drinking at all you have saturated the buds with the poison. The effects of smoking that are unknown, untested. It is nicotine based but that doesn't mean it's ok to smoke.

I would, I DID, just throw them out. I am not gonna chance that.

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From the phylloxera thread:

Norkali said:

Proof we are dealing with Phylloxera? I think so.

Definite Root aphid.

Lovely, fungus gnats managed to make their way in too it seems! The important aspect of this picture though is the smaller larvae down below it, what is that? Fungus gnat larvae or Phylloxera larvae? Hmmm...look back to the first posted picture though...looks an awful lot like the phylloxera larvae. Notice the extremely small size!

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milehighmedical said:

Oh no! Haha, I'm not crazy enough to pour dangerous chemicals on ALL my girls at once. That's insanity. I just used it on ONE of them because I was really curious if it would work. It did not.

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Ok, you are way smarter than me. I panicked.

all these fungus gnat / root aphid threads got me paranoid.
thought i saw gnats twice in my veg room and both times it was just shadows and light playing tricks on me. lol

milehighmedical said:

Oh no! Haha, I'm not crazy enough to pour dangerous chemicals on ALL my girls at once. That's insanity. I just used it on ONE of them because I was really curious if it would work. It did not.

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It didn't work because you didn't apply it correctly.

The reason that Imid works is becuase its systemic and the aphids die when they take a bite(or suck, rather) . The aphids cant eat and cant reach sexual maturity and the population plummets. If the aphids still have a bunch of plants to eat, treating one isnt going to make a difference; they will just keep multiplying on the untreated plants and keep laying eggs on your treated plant.

humble1 said:

all these fungus gnat / root aphid threads got me paranoid.
thought i saw gnats twice in my veg room and both times it was just shadows and light playing tricks on me. lol

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Ha! I know that feeling lately. I swear I see little flying things "zipping by" out of the corner of my eye but when I look directly there's nothing there.

So far no sign of any bugs in my garden on day 21 of flower. Minor Cal spotting on lowest leaves (due to ph) but no sign of the Mag spotting and necrosis yet and no waxy crap on my hydroton either. Looking good so far!

Anyone got a link on tying noose knots?

Anyone got a link on tying noose knots?

I thought on my last grow I was battling fungus gnats,guess I was wrong!! I was growing in top fed 5 gal buckets.Had all the deficiancy,lockout issues which drove me fucking crazy,I hit the full ph spectrum,added cal/mag thought I was going fucking crazy.Then I started getting fliers.I asked the hydro shop and they said O no worries you have fungus nats,just hit em with konk every 4-5 days and that will wipe em out.The 5 gal buckets were completely full of root mass,so I didn't lift the lids much more than an inch,but one day I lifted one of the hardest hit plants right out of the bucket and it was like a fucking bee hive! I gassed the fuckers,washed the bucket,and put the root mass (which appeared to be in great shape) back in.Every few days I had more fliers and I kept hammering them till week 5.In the mean time I took,cuts,dipped them in safers soap and killed off my mums.I figured the bucket system was what these gnats like so I tried soiless.Well I was getting lockout in the sunshine mix,and that was when I discovered I.C.My very first post was "what PH do ya'll run your soiless at? Soon I was getting fliers again so back at the bug bombs.I finished off the bucket grow surprisingly averaging 4-6 oz a plant,the soiless seemed visually not hit as hard and yeilded 4oz a plant.I killed everthing off,started some SSH seeds and got a cut of Kush and got another run in soiless going.Well I got phantom fucking lockout 2 weeks into flower with the Kush and the SSH and after reading this thred over and over I started digging and I definately have root aphucks! The ones I found don't have wings yet but they are definately root aphids.Here's the really good part,It appears than Imid is banned in Canada except to certain licenced applicaters.I phoned several nurseries and they have never heard of Imid,and have never had root aphids.Any suggestions? If this post makes no sence it is because I've been mind fucked for about week now.

I know a lot people say pyrethrum doesn't work, but I wonder if they're using it correctly. If you're using Fox Farms Don't Bug Me and trying to dilute it with water and use it as drench then good luck!! That spray is already diluted. You need a CONCENTRATED liquid pyrethrum that you can mix up yourself like Bug Buster O, Pyreth-It, or Pyganic. Pyganic is your best bet.

I used Bug Buster O and gave 2 drenches separated by 3-4 days. From all I can tell the aphids are gone. No more fliers. I also killed my most affected plant today because it seemed to far gone to help. I inspected the soil and didn't see ANY bugs at all. So I'm pretty confident that the pyrethrum drenches are working. This particular plant received 1 nicotine drench and 1 pyrethrum drench. The soil reaked like pyrethrum when I ripped up the root ball.

Now, the key is to continue with a few more root drenches of pyrethrum!! Usually people stop now and that's why it doesn't work. However, I'm going to flush the pyrethrum and switch to nematodes as I think they'll be a good ongoing control...

FoCO: I think Bug Buster O was only banned in CA... although I could be wrong. But I found it at Way To Grow!! So you can probably get it up in FoCO.

BigSwifty said:

FoCO: I think Bug Buster O was only banned in CA... although I could be wrong. But I found it at Way To Grow!! So you can probably get it up in FoCO.

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They try to ban everything we use, don't they?!?! WTF? I had fungus gnats, and searched everywhere for some bacillus thuringiensis, couldn't find it. Way To Grow had no idea what I was talking about, come to find out, its been banned in the US, or at least CO. But somehow, Boulder Hydroponics still has it in the Mosquito Dunks. I noticed that store has a lot of banned stuff, including 35% H2O2, verses the 29% everyone else carries.