Does the change in pH from 5.8 to 6.2 correlate to when the deficiency started?
Whenever I see someone having a problem, then saying "I changed this to this" I think to double check the part where your regimen changed.
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what to do when coco dries out and causes lockout?
- Thread starter Desert Hydro
- Start date
Does the change in pH from 5.8 to 6.2 correlate to when the deficiency started?
Whenever I see someone having a problem, then saying "I changed this to this" I think to double check the part where your regimen changed.
i thought the same as well, but i think the ph of 5.8 is what caused the issue. had them under really intense lighting and 5.8 is a tad out of the cal/mag uptake range for coco and i think they were just growing so damn fast they werent able to keep up with the ph being low.
now im running 6.3 with a ppm of 600 base and 150 ppm of calmag on top of that for a total of 750.
been hitting them with soil balance pro beneficials, kelp and molasses thats been brewing for a few days hand watered on top of their regular food once a week.
seeing lots of HEALTHY root growth so thats a good sign i think.
now im running 6.3 with a ppm of 600 base and 150 ppm of calmag on top of that for a total of 750.
been hitting them with soil balance pro beneficials, kelp and molasses thats been brewing for a few days hand watered on top of their regular food once a week.
seeing lots of HEALTHY root growth so thats a good sign i think.
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p0opstlnksal0t
Active member
I'm having salt buildup too. Ive been flushing every other feed for now growth has resumed. I'm feeding at .8-.9 ec jack's and I flush with PhD tap. I have no choice right now to feed but once a day and I went straight from rooted clones to 4g pots so I need the dry cycles to build up the roots.
On the plus side I finally got my drip system installed so I may start feeding twice a day.
On the plus side I finally got my drip system installed so I may start feeding twice a day.
fishinnutt
Member
Damage to your plants will show very fast when coco dries out as the PH swings way out of the useful range. If your pots are drying out quick like that, you are a candidate for multi waterings per day and that is part of what is so magical about coco. You will see good stuff happen if you water at least twice a day. I used to water every two hours on a timer and while that was a little much, it worked just fine in coco.
I'm having problem after problem with this grow! I cant seem to get anything right. i'll take any advice from coco experts. need help
tested my runoff and it was absurdly high. ive been feeding too much obviously. I think this coco wasn't buffered to begin with. immediately showed cal/mag deficiencies so I upped the food. now they are locked out. I flushed really heavily and transplanted to fresh clean buffered coco/perlite from 1 gal to 3 gal. now I'm gonna drop the ppms down to 500 and see if they perk up. feeding jacks and calnit in proper ratios. ph is low 6's
tested my runoff and it was absurdly high. ive been feeding too much obviously. I think this coco wasn't buffered to begin with. immediately showed cal/mag deficiencies so I upped the food. now they are locked out. I flushed really heavily and transplanted to fresh clean buffered coco/perlite from 1 gal to 3 gal. now I'm gonna drop the ppms down to 500 and see if they perk up. feeding jacks and calnit in proper ratios. ph is low 6's
p0opstlnksal0t
Active member
I'm by no means an expert...
I've fixed my salt buildup issues now with waterings every 6 hours. Ive been adjusting my pH down to around 5.7 pH then I let it swing all the way up to 6.3 over the course of days then I adjust back down.
I use cheap botanicare blocks of coco and never clean it. I don't worry about the buffering ability of the coco too much. The first few waterings I've watered heavy. After 2-3 waterings the coco settles in fine. My biggest issue was going from straight rooted clone to bigass 4 gallon flowering pots. I needed dry cycles over the course of a week or so to build up the root masses. Conversely these dry cycles produces heavy salt buildup so I flushed every other day.
I've fixed my salt buildup issues now with waterings every 6 hours. Ive been adjusting my pH down to around 5.7 pH then I let it swing all the way up to 6.3 over the course of days then I adjust back down.
I use cheap botanicare blocks of coco and never clean it. I don't worry about the buffering ability of the coco too much. The first few waterings I've watered heavy. After 2-3 waterings the coco settles in fine. My biggest issue was going from straight rooted clone to bigass 4 gallon flowering pots. I needed dry cycles over the course of a week or so to build up the root masses. Conversely these dry cycles produces heavy salt buildup so I flushed every other day.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Do you feel like you're chasing your own tail yet? The last few times I used to tupur, it came pretty high PPM out of the bag. I was facing too many drying out issues as well. So I switch to a low EC, Pure coco mix. Recent Brands I've been using our char coir, and Royal something or rather, the most important thing is well flushed low starting EC, and pure coir.
I'm also using Jacks between 1 and 1.4 EC, and 5.8 to 6.2 pH. I'd say your problem was definitely drying out between waterings. Ec spike in your medium in PH swing wildly. I'd recommend flushing with v e c of Base nutrients till you reach under 1.5 EC, then feed with one EC while checking run off every week to not exceed 1.8eC. If you get to 1.8 PC or above, then flushed back down to 1.5 EC again. Then figure out how many waterings a day you need to keep the medium consistently wet so the EC does not Spike each week. I'm in 5-gallon pots, and in flowering I'm feeding around 6 to 10 times a day for an average of about 2.5 to 3.25 gallons per day.
I'm also using Jacks between 1 and 1.4 EC, and 5.8 to 6.2 pH. I'd say your problem was definitely drying out between waterings. Ec spike in your medium in PH swing wildly. I'd recommend flushing with v e c of Base nutrients till you reach under 1.5 EC, then feed with one EC while checking run off every week to not exceed 1.8eC. If you get to 1.8 PC or above, then flushed back down to 1.5 EC again. Then figure out how many waterings a day you need to keep the medium consistently wet so the EC does not Spike each week. I'm in 5-gallon pots, and in flowering I'm feeding around 6 to 10 times a day for an average of about 2.5 to 3.25 gallons per day.
fishinnutt
Member
The best plan is to never let the stuff dry out. Forget everything you know about watering soil or other mixes and water till runoff with a coco type fert at 650 ish ppm. Make sure your PH is right near 6.0 and you will be in for a good ride. Don't flush with plain water, don't wait for the pot to get dry. I water brand new seedlings with the exact same mix and I don't change a thing all the way through to the chop. If you want to flush at the end, do so, they will fade quickly.
fishinnutt
Member
Are you using RO water? If not what is the ppm of your tap water?
i am using RO water. i had started adding back 150ppm of tap because my tap is mostly cal and mag. if im adding that back i add the nutes ec on top of that right?
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Correct
Midwest Toker
Member
To me anything over 600 ppm (1.2 ec)is a waste in coco. Most of my veg feeds are 400 ppm or less, flower 500 ppm or less.
And once you learn how to feed your plant a balanced diet you'll find you don't need to feed coir to run-off every time. I do whole grows with coir with no run-off.
And once you learn how to feed your plant a balanced diet you'll find you don't need to feed coir to run-off every time. I do whole grows with coir with no run-off.
got everything sorted out and now they are recovering nicely. bad coco with a ton of salts in it caused lockout and then it presented itself with deficiencies so i answered with heavier feeds. got worse and worse until i flushed the hell out of them and gave them a restart and moved them from 1 gal to 3 gal pots in a new clean brand of coco. the roots are coming back to life, the plants are getting green and healthy all around. still a little light and deficient but night and day difference. flowering on the first if they keep this up. now i have to build my scrog frames and mount them to the light framework and hang the trellis netting.
thanks for all the input everyone. id like to urge anyone having issues to check their runoff for inconsistencies. i knew as soon as i saw the runoff ppms. i was on the brink of giving up, killing everything and starting over. contemplating quitting all together. bad juju all around. i felt cursed and like everything i did was failing, especially after my failure in the other garden due to overwatering after transplanting. damn near killed everything and had to blast everything to save it. now im coming back harder than ever. PPK is getting cleaned out and revitalized with a vengeance!
thanks for all the input everyone. id like to urge anyone having issues to check their runoff for inconsistencies. i knew as soon as i saw the runoff ppms. i was on the brink of giving up, killing everything and starting over. contemplating quitting all together. bad juju all around. i felt cursed and like everything i did was failing, especially after my failure in the other garden due to overwatering after transplanting. damn near killed everything and had to blast everything to save it. now im coming back harder than ever. PPK is getting cleaned out and revitalized with a vengeance!
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p0opstlnksal0t
Active member
Glad to hear it brother how are you feeding these are they being hand-fed or are they on a timer pump setup
blumats doing their thing
600ppm jacks and calnit. right now i am doing a 1:1 ratio to supplement extra calcium and green them up.
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p0opstlnksal0t
Active member
I gotcha. I'm showing lockout overfeeding symptoms on my room right now. I flushed with 300ppm and I took my feedings from every 5 hours back to every 12 hours I don't think my root structures are big enough to support the 5 feedings per day yet.
You can't really overwater / overfeed coco. Even when you over do it before plants have established their roots, the only consequence will be slower root development.
Think of it this way - If you're doing DTW coco right you're basically using the coco to hold the liquid and the roots upright. That's it. You could grow the plants directly in 100% nutrient solution if you wanted to. It wouldn't cause burning or 'lockout' or anything like that.
Until the end of flower you shouldn't ever 'flush' with anything other than normal full strength nutrient solution.
p0opstlnksal0t
Active member
It may not be overfeeding but it's certainly salt buildup. I know this because I flush with 300ppm water and runoff is 400ppm... the last time I flushed the runoff would drop .3 to .4 ec per watering telling me that my plants were consuming that much. Now runoff is higher than the input.
