Lets Talk About Cheap LED's

InterKanna · Nov 16, 2015

So I have began expanding my light knowledge and use and am moving on to LED lighting. Looking on Ebay and Amazon there are some REALLY cheap LED light options, We're talking 300w LED's 90$..... Has anyone experience with these cheap LED's? Experience and knowledge tell me that there is something wrong with these lights or perhaps they don't emit what they say as you usually get what you pay for. Being able to get lights so cheap throws off alarms for me. There are a few companies that seem to stick out on Ebay and Amazon of course they are chinese companys but some have stock in the U S Of A, companies like Marshydro , KING led (Not to be confused with GROW King) Galaxyhydro and Apollo seem to be the Big CHEAP LED companies. Can someone chime in with experience using any of these lights/companies?
I would love to believe that I can get a decent LED for under $200 but the logical side of me says not to.... Thanks Dudes and dudettes

Dion · Nov 16, 2015

aww bummer

i thought we were gonna talk about underdriving cheap led chips =C

you will get plenty ppl telling u to DIY ur own(me included) and others that will tell you to buy panel xyz(perhaps they are selling)

and then those who have used any of those panels who say its ok followed by those who will ridicule the posters who have used those panels and say they r ok

i look forward to this thread

seriously though LED should be attractive because of efficiency
none of those panels are very effcicent BUT if u just wanna get an LEd get a mars hydro reflector series(cheap as chips)

dont be fooled by the advertised watts- devide those watts by 2 on average and expect 100L per watt(less than hps) thats what those chinese panels get you

aka 300w full spectrum 32band best growlight new 2015 model blah blah blah= 150w/15000 L

vs
http://growershouse.com/sun-system-150w-system-with-ultra-sun-lamp

150w/16000 L

Phaeton · Nov 16, 2015

Divide the advertised watts by two?

I bought a 45 watt six band GLED for 22 dollars. I put my watt meter on it and came up with 7.5 watts.
For this one take the advertised wattage and divide by six.

Premium high quality expensive LEDs may have half the rated wattage but the inexpensive LEDs will run 1/4 or less than advertised.

A three watt diode run at three watts will last about 2000 hours, same as an incandescent light bulb. Running the diode at 2 watts increases the lifetime to over 40,000 hours and requires half the heat sink weight.
Run the three watt diode at 1/2 watt and lifetime is 100,000 hours and almost no heatsink is required at all. This is how the price is kept so low, but the side effect is not enough energy to grow the plant.

InterKanna · Nov 16, 2015

Thanks for the replys, So a Chinese LED is gonna give you prob 1/4 tru wattage and even then high quality will only give you half......So perhaps a dimmable High wattage Diode would be best? ( China wise)? I see a King 800W 10W Double Chip set light for under $200 AGAIN..... I suppose the best way to learn is thru trial and error

just looking for some insight on possible error here thanks IC

InterKanna · Nov 16, 2015

Lol I know this must be the hundreth thread on Cheap LED but this year has seen big things,
Thanks Dion and wut exactly were u tryin to get at about under driving cheap led's?

belivitez · Nov 16, 2015

Dion whay we cannot discuss about cheap cob chips? :biggrin:

I dont have knowledge but im here to listen experience growers like you and some others.

Do you have some experience with chinese cob? What can we expected?

I wonder about this possibility becouse i want to order cree 3590, but minimum order is 5 pcs. I dont want anything over 100w. So i see cheap chinese cobs.... i can order just 1pc.

If you have some sugestions i will be very happy :tiphat:

Dion · Nov 16, 2015

belivitez said:
Dion whay we cannot discuss about cheap cob chips? I dont have knowledge but im here to listen experience growers like you and some others.

Do you have some experience with chinese cob? What can we expected?

I wonder about this possibility becouse i want to order cree 3590, but minimum order is 5 pcs. I dont want anything over 100w. So i see cheap chinese cobs.... i can order just 1pc.

If you have some sugestions i will be very happy

i wrote this up today as i was thinking about a pc growbox- dunno how big/small your garden is

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=7218408#post7218408

come talk to me in my thread(link below) you sound like your also in the EU?

tell me about ur space and I will help you find the cheap parts

Firebrand · Nov 17, 2015

In almost all instances with regards towards comparison of low end / high end COB type LED's, you'll get what you pay for.

A hundred watts for 10$ (10 pieces @ 10 watts each)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111781131694?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

A hundred and two watts for 45$ (6 pieces @ 17 watts each)
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/BXRC-50C2000-C-04/976-1163-ND/3913146

I've built it both ways using the same driver(s), personally I prefer the high end Bridgelux chips as opposed to the cheaper China type, although in testing they both create similar growth rates in veg cycle.

Dion · Nov 17, 2015

there r a few who have played with the cheap chinese cobs

im especially interested in some like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100W-High-P...639208?hash=item2a5c170628:g:GvwAAOSwlV9WSY-Q

just as an example

specs say

Input voltage: 32-34Vdc

Power: 100W

Input Current: 3000MA

Luminous Flux: 9000-10000Lumens

so thats barely 100L per watt however they r cheap as chips so what if we ran them at say..... 300mA?

they'd consume about 10w and what would efficiency be?
if i had a lux/par meter id love to test these-at that price if they can compete with say a vero 10 could be a good option

solofoe · Nov 22, 2015

One of these days I'm going to have some cheap Chinese cob numbers to contribute. just trying to get there... Desinged and built pretty much everything in my set up I do DIY for the learning experience and the challenge but unfortunately learning can be painful for plants and humans alike

Chompie · Dec 11, 2015

Here's a couple DIY LED's I've made with the cheap Chinese LED chips.

This is my veg light, 4-100w cool white chips driven by a meanwell LPC-60-1750 (60w) driver. Underpowered at 15w a piece the fixture runs very cool. With fan power each one draws 61.33W

Everything is inside the 4"x4" aluminum tubing which doubles as a heat sink with a 90mm pc fan (power supply inside the tube also) pulling air through the tubing.

I made 3 for my bloom cab with 5 -50W chips mostly the warm white with a few cool white for a more balanced spectrum. Everything else is the same. Total draw is 184w in bloom

And a little tiny C99 nug from my last harvest with them...

I ended up with 111g from 2 C99 girls w 4 main colas each and realistically I had room for another girl in there... I only had 2 lights in bloom and added a 3rd ~ day 35.

So there is potential to hit at least 1 g/w even with these cheapo chips. With a well tended scrog i think it would be fairly easy to hit that mark.

Chompie · Dec 11, 2015

Can't edit my post up there, but I forgot to mention I wired the LED's in parallel NOT in series. My thought was to really underdrive them so I could add extra chips (hey they're cheap) and keep them closer to the tops of the canopy and still get a decent light spread. I don't have a lot of headroom in my cab it's only 20"x24"x36".

Chompie · Dec 12, 2015

Dion said:
there r a few who have played with the cheap chinese cobs

im especially interested in some like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100W-High-P...639208?hash=item2a5c170628:g:GvwAAOSwlV9WSY-Q

just as an example

specs say

Input voltage: 32-34Vdc

Power: 100W

Input Current: 3000MA

Luminous Flux: 9000-10000Lumens

so thats barely 100L per watt however they r cheap as chips so what if we ran them at say..... 300mA?

they'd consume about 10w and what would efficiency be?
if i had a lux/par meter id love to test these-at that price if they can compete with say a vero 10 could be a good option

Hi Dion,

I just got a lux meter today and took some measurements around my 26"x20" cab. Bloom is 3 lights with 5 - 50w chinese chips driven at 350ma, 34V...

@ 12" I am getting a fairly consistant 28,000 lux directly under the entire light spread and drops to ~20,000 at the edges of the cab

@ 8" - 36,000 lux down to ~28,000 at the edges

@ 6" - 48,000 lux down to 32,000 at the edges (this is about canopy height)

I usually have the lights 4"-6" from the tops with no bleaching

How's that sound for bloom?

Koondense · Dec 12, 2015

Nice readings, was this measured under a single cob or under all 3x5?

I have a silly light meter app for android and it peaks at 30000 lux under a single cob at around 12" or 30 cm. Cob(cxb3590) is driven at 1400mA = 50W.
Keeping the light 12" away from the plants and they love it in veg, so the 30000 lux value is at canopy level.

Chompie · Dec 12, 2015

Koondense said:
Nice readings, was this measured under a single cob or under all 3x5?

I have a silly light meter app for android and it peaks at 30000 lux under a single cob at around 12" or 30 cm. Cob(cxb3590) is driven at 1400mA = 50W.
Keeping the light 12" away from the plants and they love it in veg, so the 30000 lux value is at canopy level.

Those measurements were with all 3 fixtures with 5x50w chips lit up. Each chip is being driven at 350ma though 1750ma total for each 5x50w fixture. I took readings all around the cab at each distance to see how the light was spreading out.

I'll test out a single 100w chip with 1400ma at 36V, but I know it's not going to be anywhere near 30000 lux at 12"

My canopy sees an even spread of between 48000 to 60000 lux at 4-6" depending on the height of the tops

I'm new to all this, so I'm not sure how these things are penetrating over say driving only 2 50w chips or one 100w chip with my 1750ma drivers...

Eventually I'm going the cree route when I get the time to build a taller bloom cab

Chompie · Dec 13, 2015

Changed the middle fixture to all 100w chips, Lux measurements have increased at the canopy by ~25-30% under the 5x100w chip fixture while being driven at the same exact 1750ma!!!

Ordered 10 more 100w warm white chips to replace the rest of the 50w chips in my other 2 fixtures.... $30 for 10 chips on ebay... I'll redo the light measurements in the cab and post up when they get in...

Chloemobile · Dec 14, 2015

Very interesting... lots of savings to be had here if the difference is truly negligible.

Boyd Crowder · Dec 14, 2015

researched the tail off this lizard for months earlier this year and
came away disapointed.
the reality is if you want the best light for the $, you gotta build it yourself.
if you want thw lumens a 1kw hps drops , you will spend around 750-1100 in parts, depending on the cob/driver/heatsink combo.
Id suggest if you have a budget of zero-250$ you get a ballast/hood/bulb in the 600/1kw range and skip the leds for now. i you want to go led, by all means go, its great for micro/stealth type grows or in a veg room with a couple moms, but dont expect huge colas and fast women with shitty leds.

Dion · Dec 15, 2015

Boyd Crowder said:
the reality is if you want the best light for the $, you gotta build it yourself.
if you want thw lumens a 1kw hps drops , you will spend around 750-1100 in parts, depending on the cob/driver/heatsink combo.
Id suggest if you have a budget of zero-250$ you get a ballast/hood/bulb in the 600/1kw range and skip the leds for now. i you want to go led, by all means go, its great for micro/stealth type grows or in a veg room with a couple moms, but dont expect huge colas and fast women with shitty leds.

the only advantage of LED is the efficiency which is only an advantage if you pay more than 30 cents per kwh (just a scary looking number havnt bothered to figure this out exactly as its more than i pay[22c) or you have a small space so heat is an issue

i keep telling ppl this but seems you and i are the only ones who see it that way

Chompie · Jan 21, 2016

Chompie said:
Hi Dion,

I just got a lux meter today and took some measurements around my 26"x20" cab. Bloom is 3 lights with 5 - 50w chinese chips driven at 350ma, 34V...

@ 12" I am getting a fairly consistant 28,000 lux directly under the entire light spread and drops to ~20,000 at the edges of the cab

@ 8" - 36,000 lux down to ~28,000 at the edges

@ 6" - 48,000 lux down to 32,000 at the edges (this is about canopy height)

I usually have the lights 4"-6" from the tops with no bleaching

How's that sound for bloom?

Finally got the other two lights changed out to 100W chips also.

So now I have all 3 fixtures in the bloom cab with 5x100w chinese chips wired in parallel, each one driven with a meanwell LPC-60-1750 (60w) driver.

New lux measurements spread around the 20"x26" cab:

@ 12" - 34,500 at the center to 26,000 at the edges

@ 6" - 56,000 center to 36,000 at the edges

@ 4" - 80,500 center to 48,000 at the edges

So I've realized an increase of ~8,000 to 4,000 lux with the 100W chips over 50W chips

Still keeping them at 4"-6" above tops for now. It's been around a week with the 100w chips and no bleaching...

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