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Should Machine Rooted Clones be Dipped?

S

SooperSmurph

Something I forgot to add is that I scrape off 1/4" of the outer bark on 2 sides of the dipped stem.
The "bark", or outerskin, will produce hairy roots, with hairs like a "fern" or "ladder rungs".
The scraped part of the stem will produce noodle like roots. This helps with 2 types of root systems. 1 for nutrient uptake. The other for oxygen uptake.
Scraping and scoring are a given ;) I apologize for not making this clear initially.
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
I never scraped or scored my clones, I just cut long stems with inter-nodes to grow, place them in a bucket of water (for a few minutes or for a few days refrigerated) until I chop them up to small pieces 4-6 inches with an inter-node to grow, and place them in a temperature controlled covered sand table. Rooting hormone seems to speed up the process by a day or two, but with over 95% rooted and thousands, maybe more then a million, run through the process, it is easy as long as you control temperature and humidity, with or without rooting hormone. Takes a week or a few days more to be ready to transplant. It helps if the mother plants used to make clones are healthy and vigorous...
Moist sand is nice when it comes to roots, easy to work with and easy to scale up, if you need more then you can make sand rooting areas on the floor and do tens of thousands+ at a time. I work in a greenhouse.
-SamS
 
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blackone

Active member
Veteran
Interesting method Sam - do just use sand from the beach or something? And do you sterilize or pasteurize it first?
 
S

SooperSmurph

I never scraped or scored my clones, I just cut long stems with inter-nodes to grow, place them in a bucket of water (for a few minutes or for a few days refrigerated) until I chop them up to small pieces 4-6 inches with an inter-node to grow, and place them in a temperature controlled covered sand table. Rooting hormone seems to speed up the process by a day or two, but with over 95% rooted and thousands, maybe more then a million, run through the process, it is easy as long as you control temperature and humidity, with or without rooting hormone. Takes a week or a few days more to be ready to transplant. It helps if the mother plants used to make clones are healthy and vigorous...
Moist sand is nice when it comes to roots, easy to work with and easy to scale up, if you need more then you can make sand rooting areas on the floor and do tens of thousands+ at a time. I work in a greenhouse.
-SamS
On a plant with a lot of nodes, scraping and scoring isn't needed, admittedly, but using this particular cut of Blue Dream I tend to end up with long stems that don't have nearly as many nodes as i'd prefer, so I scrape and score to create more sites from which the roots can develop.

Thanks for gracing my thread with some star presence, and for your input!
 

farmdalefurr

I feel nothing and it feels great
Veteran
How long do your clones usually take to root smurph?

I know some are strain dependent (longer time than others), but what's your usual time?
 
S

SooperSmurph

How long do your clones usually take to root smurph?

I know some are strain dependent (longer time than others), but what's your usual time?
As you can see from my images and last side by side, I prefer to let my clones develop a larger root system in the machine before transplant, and this large root structure is typically ready between days 12 and 16.
 

farmdalefurr

I feel nothing and it feels great
Veteran
Right on

Ill have to snap a couple shots of my Chem D that is at 13 days in the ez

If you don't mind me postin em
 

Crusader Rabbit

Active member
Veteran
Did all these Blue Dream cuts receive the same Azamax treatment and cloner solution as with the EZ Cloner cuts in the last experiment?
 
S

SooperSmurph

Did all these Blue Dream cuts receive the same Azamax treatment and cloner solution as with the EZ Cloner cuts in the last experiment?
Yep, Azamax at 60ml / gallon is given to my veg plants every week, so in general unless I specifically aim to take clones before spraying, they're never more than 4 days from being hit with that lovely refined neem extract.

Ty for pointing out that Cloning Solution dosage is not in the OP.
 

Crusader Rabbit

Active member
Veteran
Another idea was to dip the clones in water to rinse off excess gel / etc that has not been wicked up into the stem before placing them in the machine, do you feel perhaps that this will provide sufficient removal / dilution so as to minimize any effects upon the control group?

I somehow missed this question earlier, which was directed to me.

My personal opinion is that the way you're doing this experiment is about the best one can do using one cloner. You are trying to find which method performs best, and the methods people use include dipping the stems before going into the cloner. I don't think anybody dips and then rinses. Doing so here would be adding another factor that doesn't represent real world use. Or you could have started it up and then replace the water bath. But that wouldn't represent typical technique either, and there would still have been exposure.

The rinsed hormones in the bath represent a wild card, but with the undipped cuttings you have a control that can provide information. If the dipped cuttings do better than the un-dipped you'll have useable results. If the un-dipped perform the same or better then another experiment will be required to decipher what might have happened.

I think you've addressed the obvious assumptions being made here, and the reasoning behind those assumptions. Seems there's no hidden factors. Anyone following this experiment afterwards has the information to interpret the results and go from there whatever happens. Can't do much better than that.
 
A

Alone

As you can see from my images and last side by side, I prefer to let my clones develop a larger root system in the machine before transplant, and this large root structure is typically ready between days 12 and 16.

I also let my cuts develop extremely large root systems before t/ping into desired medium. This helps the clones continue to grow with absolutely 0 stall. Matter of fact.....with the EZ-C, the cuts continue to grow abit while rooting. Thats a huuuuge +
for SOG type grows that require only 1 or 2 weeks of veg before the flip to 12/12.

picture.php


picture.php


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Heres before and after the t/p into 3gln grow bags.
At T/P - Day 1 ~
picture.php


14 days later ~
picture.php


I posted this to confirm with you and everyone else that your findings arent tainted and you are getting the right/same results as me.
You have it down pact my brother.
The larger, healthier, more vigorous cuts you take, and the longer and thicker root systems that you can develop before t/p, means faster taking, healthier clones, that maintain great vigor with 0 stall.
Thank You for posting all this, for us growers to learn and grow better plants from clone.
Your truly a master.
 
S

SooperSmurph

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I somehow missed this question earlier, which was directed to me.[/FONT]
Don't worry about it, the "Control" data from the previous run will be more "Pure" anyway, making it higher quality and better for posterity. Ty for your continued attendance and input.
Thank You for posting all this, for us growers to learn and grow better plants from clone.
Your truly a master.
Nah, i'm still very much an amateur, I just hope that my experiences and data can help others while I continue to learn what this plant has to teach me.
 

Crusader Rabbit

Active member
Veteran
I think that having both "controls", from the previous run and in the present EZ Cloner run, will provide important information.
 

Drift13

Member
Subscribed and :thank you: I'm sure hoping this will improve my cloning ability. I use a 5 gallon bucket w/ lid that has 8 spots drilled out for pucks. So needless to say I hoping to learn much from y'all.
 

Crooked8

Well-known member
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I have to be honest the larger developed root systems out of the cloner give me mixed vibes. Ive let them go in the cloner for an extra week or even two and yes they do actually start to grow a bit in the cloner. However, once I've transplanted into a medium(rock wool) I've felt the ones that had just popped a few days ago with maybe a few 3 inch roots were the ones that took off best for me. I haven't done any side by side stuff so this is great info smurph. Your roots look really white and healthy although they are large, sometimes if i let my cloner go that long the roots start to turn light tan. I wonder why? Also I'm wondering if u wait that extra week or so for the development of the larger roots, are you really benefiting when you're holding off on veg time within a medium? How long did you let those go?
 
A

Alone

An EZ-Cloner will push out 3" of roots in 1 day easy.

In soil...or desired medium....it can take 4-5 days to grow the same 3" of roots so I would have to say NO it doesnt take away from growing/vegging time.
 

TripleDraw27

Active member
Veteran
An EZ-Cloner will push out 3" of roots in 1 day easy.

In soil...or desired medium....it can take 4-5 days to grow the same 3" of roots so I would have to say NO it doesnt take away from growing/vegging time.

If ez cloners did 3 inch roots in a day " easy", there would be 5 million threads on it and not a continous " how to achieve better clones" topics. You should say that this is your personal take, what u said sounds like some mouth breather at a hydro shop trying to sell a giant order of ez clone machines he is sitting on.
 
A

Alone

This is not my personal take and dont tell me what I can and cannot say!
Obviously you dont know squat about an EZ-Cloner!
HERES PROOF .....now piss off! Calling me out as a troll.....LOL
Once I see bumps....the cuts have 8" - 12" roots within 4 days. Not on just 1 strain either. Alot of dif genetics that root the same way, give or take a couple inches of roots.
2 days before~
picture.php


Next day...3"+ of roots grown~
picture.php


2 days after ~ 6"+ roots grown. GOT THE TRUTH NOW!....Good!
picture.php


Sorry SooperSmurph.....but dude needed to be put in his place......
Now everyone go to www.stuffedwarehouse.com and buy all the EZ-Cloners I have in stock! Great Deals! LMFAO!!
 
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S

SooperSmurph

Sad news, a power outage at my home resulted in the deaths of several test subjects, so I am forced to declare a restart which will take place on 7/29/13.

Until then please enjoy the taste test results for my soil side by side, and my various breeder test threads, all of which are linked in my sig.
 
A

Alone

That sucks. Plenty of time to do it again. Love the soil side x side thread you got going.
Thanx for all your helpful input on these subjects.
 

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