Operation Kill Shorty

high life 45 · Nov 1, 2012

I use ro but I think I could use my tap.

I just mix equally by volume, its easier for me.

I shoot for a 1-1.2 ec most of the time. Feed em a bit more if they look hungry in the stretch.

There's is 6 stores in my nearest town.

They all have slightly different stuff.
I am extremely lucky as one is really close to my grow and has the best managment/staff.

delta9nxs · Nov 1, 2012

hey, jr, that 200 ppm tap water could be a problem.

i have the bluelab too and it reads in ec, ppm .5, and ppm .7. make sure you are on the .5 scale when you check that tap water.

if it is still 200 ppm you will need to get ro water, distilled water, or have jrpeters make a recommendation. the jack's/calcinit combo at their instructions is designed for distilled or ro water.

you can send a sample to them and they will give you specific mixing instructions designed around your water properties. i think it is only $35.

but if you factor in the lab test and all the ph down you are going to need it might be cheaper in the long run to get a ro filter.

take a small plastic cup and fill it full of your tap water and freeze it. after freezing pull it out and rinse it off so you can see through it.

the white stuff you see in the center are the minerals that have migrated to the center while freezing.

ro water or distilled water will have no white in the cubes.

tap water will display varying amounts depending on what's in the water. 200 ppm at one location might be usable and 200 ppm at another might not.

but if your water shows more than about 1/2 white you almost certainly will have problems.

also, if there is any color like yellow or red it will be toxic to your plants.

DaveTheNewbie · Nov 1, 2012

delta9nxs said:
take a small plastic cup and fill it full of your tap water and freeze it. after freezing pull it out and rinse it off so you can see through it.

the white stuff you see in the center are the minerals that have migrated to the center while freezing.

ro water or distilled water will have no white in the cubes.

but if your water shows more than about 1/2 white you almost certainly will have problems.

also, if there is any color like yellow or red it will be toxic to your plants.

How cool is that. Science in action kiddies !

johnnyrotten · Nov 1, 2012

delta9nxs said:
hey, jr, that 200 ppm tap water could be a problem.

i have the bluelab too and it reads in ec, ppm .5, and ppm .7. make sure you are on the .5 scale when you check that tap water.

if it is still 200 ppm you will need to get ro water, distilled water, or have jrpeters make a recommendation. the jack's/calcinit combo at their instructions is designed for distilled or ro water.

you can send a sample to them and they will give you specific mixing instructions designed around your water properties. i think it is only $35.

but if you factor in the lab test and all the ph down you are going to need it might be cheaper in the long run to get a ro filter.

take a small plastic cup and fill it full of your tap water and freeze it. after freezing pull it out and rinse it off so you can see through it.

the white stuff you see in the center are the minerals that have migrated to the center while freezing.

ro water or distilled water will have no white in the cubes.

tap water will display varying amounts depending on what's in the water. 200 ppm at one location might be usable and 200 ppm at another might not.

but if your water shows more than about 1/2 white you almost certainly will have problems.

also, if there is any color like yellow or red it will be toxic to your plants.

I think I'm just gonna send a water sample to them and go from there... Using AN Sensi with my other plant I didn't have a problem with them using tap water, that I know about...

I sent them a request for a test kit on Monday or Tuesday but haven't heard back from them yet...

johnnyrotten · Nov 1, 2012

I ended up ordering a water test from customhydronutes, they sell Peters Hydrosol, which I believe is the same as Jacks... jacks phone must be down due to the hurricane...

johnnyrotten · Nov 2, 2012

Well, Shorty is still alive, looks like a little nute burn on the tips but overall pretty good. The top of the coco is a little dry... I may need to raise the water level or even better would be to fix my wick correctly...still haven't top watered her yet...

View attachment 190484

johnnyrotten · Nov 4, 2012

Ok, changed out the tailpiece with one like D9 used, while removing the old tail piece I found a root growing in there and put it back in the pot and installed the new tailpiece...

Thrn, after 9 days I handwatered her... The coco was really dry, I hope the new tailpiece works...
View attachment 190720

delta9nxs · Nov 4, 2012

hey, jr! lookin pretty good but you really should not be feeding this plant more than 600 ppm at the .5 conversion or ec 1.2.

also there is really no reason to use perlite with coco. it already dries too fast.

the drying concentrates nutrient salts.

without a pulse you need to water the top more often with this mix.

bring your air gap to about 3" also. that will create a more moist profile in the top part of the medium. maybe 2.5".

johnnyrotten · Nov 4, 2012

delta9nxs said:
hey, jr! lookin pretty good but you really should not be feeding this plant more than 600 ppm at the .5 conversion or ec 1.2.

also there is really no reason to use perlite with coco. it already dries too fast.

the drying concentrates nutrient salts.

without a pulse you need to water the top more often with this mix.

bring your air gap to about 3" also. that will create a more moist profile in the top part of the medium. maybe 2.5".

Ok D9, is that 600ppm on top of my 200ppm tap water? I'm still working on getting a replacement ppm meter...

I won't be using perlite in the future, probably gonna look at pulse feeding as well...

delta9nxs · Nov 4, 2012

johnnyrotten said:
Ok D9, is that 600ppm on top of my 200ppm tap water? I'm still working on getting a replacement ppm meter...

I won't be using perlite in the future, probably gonna look at pulse feeding as well...

no, in your case i would mix including the 200 ppm water. so that's 200 ppm water and 400 ppm nutes. this is because of the calcium content in your water. any water reading that high will have a lot of calcium in it already.

the ppm in your system will rise anyway.

have you looked at an ice cube yet?

johnnyrotten · Nov 4, 2012

No, I haven't made an ice cube yet but the freezer makes ice, is that the same?

I'm gonna raise the water table and see what happens... I think the smart pot with coco/perlite might evaporate too much water for a ppk but Darth used 2 fabric wicks in his with just coco...

If it doesn't work, I'll be building a top bucket from another identical tub and transplanting her...

Also, I ordered a water test kit and hopefully I can get the nutes handled, in the meantime, I will have a replacement meter by Tuesday...

johnnyrotten · Nov 4, 2012

If my water is high in calcium then I might be better off using peters hydrosol instead of jacks? Is that correct?

delta9nxs · Nov 4, 2012

johnnyrotten said:
If my water is high in calcium then I might be better off using peters hydrosol instead of jacks? Is that correct?

on the ice cube any will work.

i just looked at the hydrosol formula and there is no calcium in the base formula either just like jacks. i still prefer the jack's as it has over 6% magnesium compared to 3.1% in the hydrosol formula.

johnnyrotten · Nov 4, 2012

I checked out the ice cubes, they are about 1/3 white, the rest is clear... No other colors, the water tastes good..

I thought that the water would contain mag and that I might need a formula with less of it...

delta9nxs · Nov 4, 2012

that ice cube's not too bad. you can probably get away with it.

it will contain magnesium but that is usually not the culprit in higher ppm water. it is almost always calcium that causes stimulations and antagonisms with other elements in your nutes. but might not be.

i got in a discussion with a GH rep about what kind of water their nutes were designed for. he told me for it was for "average" tap water. when i asked what average was he said about 100 ppm.

well, how many people actually have 100 ppm water?

almost no one. and if they do the chemical composition will vary from site to site. which means that it is not going to be right chemically for most water supplies. it will be close for some folks but wrong for most.

this is a "hobby" supplier's approach to marketing nutrients. they want products that sell to the maximum number of people at the retail level. this is what you get at the "grow" store.

cannabis boards are full of plaintive cries for help in diagnosing "deficiencies" when there are probably no deficiencies involved at all.

a supplier of commercial fertilizers to farmers uses a more practical approach. they have long experience dealing with different water supplies and the problems that entails.

so when it's time to market to "hobbyist" they can safely market a product designed for ro or distilled water and know that it will work every time with those types of water.

but when a commercial greenhouse needs a nutrient package they almost always have the manufacturer design a program around their particular water supply because it is simply too expensive to use ro or distilled water.

try it and see. if it doesn't work out you'll know soon. be ready to buy a cheap ro filter.

high life 45 · Nov 4, 2012

delta9nxs said:
that ice cube's not too bad. you can probably get away with it.

it will contain magnesium but that is usually not the culprit in higher ppm water. it is almost always calcium that causes stimulations and antagonisms with other elements in your nutes. but might not be.

i got in a discussion with a GH rep about what kind of water their nutes were designed for. he told me for it was for "average" tap water. when i asked what average was he said about 100 ppm.

well, how many people actually have 100 ppm water?

almost no one. and if they do the chemical composition will vary from site to site. which means that it is not going to be right chemically for most water supplies. it will be close for some folks but wrong for most.

this is a "hobby" supplier's approach to marketing nutrients. they want products that sell to the maximum number of people at the retail level. this is what you get at the "grow" store.

cannabis boards are full of plaintive cries for help in diagnosing "deficiencies" when there are probably no deficiencies involved at all.

a supplier of commercial fertilizers to farmers uses a more practical approach. they have long experience dealing with different water supplies and the problems that entails.

so when it's time to market to "hobbyist" they can safely market a product designed for ro or distilled water and know that it will work every time with those types of water.

but when a commercial greenhouse needs a nutrient package they almost always have the manufacturer design a program around their particular water supply because it is simply too expensive to use ro or distilled water.

try it and see. if it doesn't work out you'll know soon. be ready to buy a cheap ro filter.

D9 always dropping knowledge! I know that I have read this before in the PPK thread, but it wasn't fresh in my mind.

johnnyrotten · Nov 5, 2012

Think I will be adding pulse to my PPK's...I have 250gph pumps, tubing,etc... the only thing I really need is to study it and buy any tubing I need...I'm also going to build a couple PPK's using a more traditional low-profile design using Rubbermaid 3 gallon totes for top and bottom...

johnnyrotten · Nov 6, 2012

Here it is, the moment when I say smart pot ppks don't work well with media wicks... The pots evaporate really fast, I also had 30% perlite in my coco which made for less water retention... I saw Darth Fader using smart pots with microfiber wick ppm's and those work well... I may try it in the future again...

For now, I transplanted Shorty to a more traditional PPC and while I was at it, I made two more and planted two more clones... They were getting too big in the cloner and were showing deficiencies because of the low strength nute mix I was using...I filled these plants res with a slightly stronger formula than they are used too...

Shorty was also showing some deficiencies as well, the only thing that had changed was I lowered my nute strength for her and she started looking worse... So, gonna bump those up...

View attachment 191260

delta9nxs · Nov 7, 2012

now you're cookin'! looks like you could put a little more medium in there but that's ok.

do you have the jack's yet?

johnnyrotten · Nov 7, 2012

delta9nxs said:
now you're cookin'! looks like you could put a little more medium in there but that's ok.

do you have the jack's yet?

Yeah, I'll be adding more medium, haven't gotten any jacks, just sent my water test in...

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