Pose2B clone grow by Onavelzy

Thx to Terp and Aspen for keeping me on the path. I'm trainable, I swear. You're both unreppable right now but, fwiw, I woulda if I coulda.

I had kind of a 'fun' start to the day today. I was in the tent early because it was a 730 start at work. I had decided to lower the lights, since all the plants were looking better. I was up on my tiptoes trying to lower the light. As I was struggling up on my toes, trying to remember if I was supposed to push up on the little release button or pull down to get the pulley things to release, I kept bumping my head on what I thought was the outflow ducting. It wasn't. I looked over and saw this attached to the side of my head:


I had fifty minutes to make it to work. I shampooed like crazy, three times with three different shampoos. Anyone who has gotten that shit on their fingers or whatever knows how much good that did. I dressed and brushed my hair. It felt like the gorilla glue of hair gel. I figured I was gonna be doing my version of this all day:


Luckily, I was able to wear a hat at the worksite for most of the day.

Damn, there's doh and there's DOH!

The plants look less yellow after a second magnesium spritz at lights out last night. Right now, my biggest concerns are the smaller GG4, which is making minimal new growth and the bigger DT7. It has really robust top growth but the unders are looking tres funky.

But, hands off I say! Let the girls be girls.

You all have a good night and keep your heads out of the sticky traps. Tell 'em Ona told you so.

I got "Great Stuff" spray foam sealant in my hair doing DIY exhaust venting. That was a shitty day!
I'll second or third the other comments.

A number two blade on the hair clippers fixes all

That's a good lad

That's a good lad

I've pretty much stayed out of the tent for most of the last 4 days. I did do a daily plant check and made a couple of light's out foliars with dilute nutes and added magnesium. The bottoms of the fabric pots are still moist, so hands off for now.

State of the union, a Posed2b photo update:

I did my first supercrop ever today. My healthier, taller Dubtech teen has had what looks to me like really good top growth but the lower leaves have looked like poo poo the last few days. There's too many things it could be to really know what's going on.

Given its size compared to the other clones, I knew I was going to either need to take big assed cuts for clones to make functional tops vs go all Iynegar on them. I decided to bend with her. The two major shoots were too thick and woody for me to really crush like they say in all the "how-to" threads, so I did several mini crush/bends to get them to out to the side. Thx again to Aspen and Dansbuds for the suggestion to use clip-on paper holder thingies on the pots to hold the wire.

Dubtech 7 after bend, don't break session. lower leaves fading fast


the Adubbs are basically going full on apical node on me, along with some under foliage issues of their own. I'm figuring my best strategy with them will be to take a big clone cut off the dominant (only) branch to get the plants close to the height of the other clones and see how things go after that. That will hopefully give me some more tops to work with. My attempt at hand FIMMing seemed to work with the Dubtech and at least one of the GG4's but these two rascals just laughed at me and kept going up.

A question for Growtech or any of the SDF growers: Is Adubb usually a sativa dominant form or is this a little not Adubby-like? It's not a big deal, I don't expect it to be a real cut. I'm just curious about what to expect. They and the Dubtech clones seemed to be vertically inclined from the word go

The twin towers of Adubb:


Interestingly, to me, the star grower since the transplant has been the Kaya, who was by far the droopiest after the transplant and subsequent feed. It has also developed the elongation look. Giraffes are in these days? Light too far away? feed too high? too low? etc, etc.
She's not sniveling, so I'm not changing anything, except I may lower the light some more tomorrow. I'm wearing a hat this time though

A nicely erect and turgid Kaya


The taller GG4, the one who had the best roots of the two:


The smaller GG4 clone. I think I FIMMed her too but can't remember:


Not a lot happening otherwise. I'll throw in a mercy pic of the zombie dubtech 7 in next entry

I feel so bad

I feel so bad

She's looked worse really. I still don't know if it's alive or dead. It could be wishful thinking but i think there has been incremental growth at the top. She has to declare herself. I'm not gonna play god this one time. If nothing else, it's a learning opportunity and that's what this particular grow is really about.

Zombie Dubtech 7, Dead or alive?

Terpene said:

Aspen is completely spot on.

Back when I started, a good friend told me to back off watering as well. His advice:

"Water your pots, then pick them up and get used to the weight of a wet pot. Every day when you come in from there on, pick your pots up and see how they feel. If they're still heavy, back off. If they feel light, water them."

Its stupid simple, but I still use that technique with all my non SIP containers to this day.

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Thanks Terpene..... that's exactly how i do it myself..... I pick up every container a couple of inches and feel the water weight....

Ona when you get the grit guards you will notice a big difference in how your pots dry with air under them.... Below the soil line your roots uptake oxygen when you water them they become saturated for a little while then the moisture in the pots subsides giving way to oxigen....., the top layer of your root system is all AIR Roots taking up very little amounts of nutrients. the bottom of the root system is all about nutrient uptake. when the bottom of those pots start to air prune your root mass will double and your plants will skyrocket..... Nice job with the super cropping.... In no time at all you will be looking at your plants and you'll know if they need water or anything else..... but stick with weighing the pots... for now like i said i still do it but i let the plants tell me which ones to pick up first...

Hey brother, just curious about how often you are watering those babies? How much Vegnbloom per gal are you feeding em? And last but not least have you scoped for bugs?
Those red stems are showing nutrient lockout, which could be from: under feeding , lack of roots, overwatering, pests, or salty coco? What brand are you using and did you flush it with plain water at any time? Sorry last ? About how long have you been nursing these little ones?

cyat said:

Hey brother, just curious about how often you are watering those babies? How much Vegnbloom per gal are you feeding em? And last but not least have you scoped for bugs?
Those red stems are showing nutrient lockout, which could be from: under feeding , lack of roots, overwatering, pests, or salty coco? What brand are you using and did you flush it with plain water at any time? Sorry last ? About how long have you been nursing these little ones?

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Hi Cyat, The consensus is I have over watered. I can see that. First, some of the clones had under-developed roots coming out of the solo cups. Second, i put them is new 2 gallon pots with moist but not wet coco that I had wrung out. I got a little discombobulated when they all started drooping and losing leaf color within a day. I had read some threads saying better to keep transplants moist than on the dry side so I did a watering the day after uppotting and got some of the serious droop you see in the earlier pictures. I haven't watered or fed since, other than a couple of dilute foliars

I have been putting 1/2 tsp of VnB RO into a gallon of ro water. The last feed was at an EC of 1.1 to 1.2 (i'm still at the mixing it up one gallon at a time stage, so there was some slight variation between bottles). The consensus has also been that I should drop to a lower EC which I'm happy to do. I was just bothered by the leaf discoloration.

That's good to know about the leaf stem color possibly indicating some lock out possibilities.

About a week prior to the up potting, I measured my run off EC and pH for the first time. Two plants were way out of appropriate range. Most of the rest were running off at around 2.0. So I did a flush at an EC of 0.6 and got the runoff back to that range. That flush with lower than usual EC had me worried I had underfed when I got those leaf changes after the transplant. As a result, I did that feed that was too early, too much in hindsight. I did do an EC check of the run off when I did that feed after the transplant and all were within 0.1 EC of the feed

I have used a hand held magnifying glass, 4 or 5x i think and haven't seen anything yet but that has been a concern of mine from day one.

I got them the day I met you, 2-11

As you mentioned, there are a number of things I could have going on wrong. My current fan/filter combo is too much for the tent I'm in (200cfu tent, 435 cfu fan) so I'm willing to bet some of the changes, especially the Dubtech 7 leaf changes, are from excessive air movement. I've taken to not running the fan at all unless it gets more than 83 ish. the smell isn't that bad yet. Amazingly, my wife had no concerns at all about the smell of things (I know, it's still early). She wasn't happy about the immediate hit to the electricity bill though. It could be the temps of the space, which have been stable more recently but were quite variable for a number of days, could be the others you mentioned or even 'all of the above'. Tons of potentially lethal variables

I'm trying to go at them one by one. I've stayed away from them for the most part these last 4 days. no feeds other than spraying, no fungicides or pesticides, I moved the lights up farther away for a while, I put some insulation under the pots. I've camped out in the Cannabis Infirmary thread looking at pictures....

Thanks for the look in and the gentle questioning. Don't be shy if you see me being newbish. I'm ok with a trip behind the woodshed if needed. If you see something you can help me with, come on in. Gotta say though, I'm not digging one of those pits of yours.

Aspenou812 said:

Ona when you get the grit guards you will notice a big difference in how your pots dry with air under them.... Below the soil line your roots uptake oxygen when you water them they become saturated for a little while then the moisture in the pots subsides giving way to oxigen....., the top layer of your root system is all AIR Roots taking up very little amounts of nutrients. the bottom of the root system is all about nutrient uptake. when the bottom of those pots start to air prune your root mass will double and your plants will skyrocket..... Nice job with the super cropping.... In no time at all you will be looking at your plants and you'll know if they need water or anything else..... but stick with weighing the pots... for now like i said i still do it but i let the plants tell me which ones to pick up first...

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I'm hoping they come in quick. I'm not liking the way the bottoms stay moist all the time. I may go to airpots next go round, they seem simpler and your pantyhose addition should help minimize pest access, which I had been told was a potential negative to using those. You get told so many things, it gets hard to know what is what sometimes.

I'm having having a ton of fun no matter how much whining I'm doing. If everything was as easy as pie, I probably wouldn't last past a single grow. needs me some angst!!

Thanks for the help as always. Your plants do look fuller. Gz on your grow!

Ona

Ay yay yi , or as they say oy veh.. love your attitude and the self depreciating humor! I think you should write books.

Here we go.. Couple things, you first rinsed the coco with boiling water(no nutes) then you squeezed the coco transplanted and didn't feed them to runoff, waited a day then fertigated and they looked droopy ( non flowering plants droop in their sleepy hours it's ok ) also you watered with too little nutes ( u need at least a tsp of that brand no less, them you flushed with even lower strength nutes... And you're magnifier is way too weak get a microscopic one at a hydro store.
Ever see run Lola run?
Let's start over.. Now let's say you....didn't give ur coco plain boiling water, then you transplanted and fed full strength nutes( 1or more tsp. v and b) to the point of full saturation, let that drain off completely then wait at least three to 7 days to feed again.. When the pots start drying out every day then u can feed everyday .
If you dig a pit you ago bury in it - Peter tosh

cyat said:

Ay yay yi , or as they say oy veh.. love your attitude and the self depreciating humor! I think you should write books.

Here we go.. Couple things, you first rinsed the coco with boiling water(no nutes) then you squeezed the coco transplanted and didn't feed them to runoff, waited a day then fertigated and they looked droopy ( non flowering plants droop in their sleepy hours it's ok ) also you watered with too little nutes ( u need at least a tsp of that brand no less, them you flushed with even lower strength nutes... And you're magnifier is way too weak get a microscopic one at a hydro store.
Ever see run Lola run?
Let's start over.. Now let's say you....didn't give ur coco plain boiling water, then you transplanted and fed full strength nutes( 1or more tsp. v and b) to the point of full saturation, let that drain off completely then wait at least three to 7 days to feed again.. When the pots start drying out every day then u can feed everyday .
If you dig a pit you ago bury in it - Peter tosh

Click to expand...

You pretty much had it.

I boiled and soaked using SD tap (EC 1.1, 350ppm). then to cool the stuff down (it was staying fricking hot forever and I wanted to plant) I did a cool down rinse of the Coco with straight tap from the hose. After decanting off as much of that fluid as I could, I then "charged" with 2 gallons of 1/2 strength nutes. I read that somewhere I'm sure. then i poured that fluid off. Then i put the coco in some cheesecloth equivalent (an old, clean work shirt I could throw away when done) and wrung it tightly so the coco wasn't wet but felt damp. then I transplanted. I did not water any further until the next day when things looked icky. That watering was at my usual EC of 1.1 - 1.2 which is what I get if I use a half a teaspoon of VnB in RO water than has been bumped to 0.3 (direction follower, born and bred). That feed was to run off, and it was probably at least 25%, visual guesstimate. It just kept coming out of those pots. It was my first time using them. The EC on the runoff was 1.0 - 1.1.

As for the feeding strength, I got my hand, face and ass slapped earlier for feeding as high as 1.3 in early veg. If I used 1 to 2 tsp's, I'd be..., not sure where but way above 1.3.

I have ordered a desk top scope. I want to get a usb one that lets me put the image on my computer to view while scanning. Then I can hopefully see a lot better with the bigger screen size.

I did not see Lola but I did read the wiki page just now. I don't get out much. Especially now, when I spend my evenings sitting in my tent going, "Hummmph, wtf?"

Take care and stay close,

Ona

The biggest key to keeping the pest at bay is being clean and you have a clean setup.....

Rinsing coco is a no no, unless it's with nutes.
If you have broad mites they will be difficult to see, and by the time you get hard tacos the claw and yellow tips it will be too late. I say this because bm's are around and they fly in circles
I put some new clones in 2 gal pots of coco about the same time you started this , vigorous green growth, and using San Diego tap and plastic plates under the plastic pots. Nothin fancy. No ph adjusters were needed sits right about 6 naturally.

cyat said:

Ay yay yi , or as they say oy veh.. love your attitude and the self depreciating humor! I think you should write books.

Here we go.. Couple things, you first rinsed the coco with boiling water(no nutes) then you squeezed the coco transplanted and didn't feed them to runoff, waited a day then fertigated and they looked droopy ( non flowering plants droop in their sleepy hours it's ok ) also you watered with too little nutes ( u need at least a tsp of that brand no less, them you flushed with even lower strength nutes... And you're magnifier is way too weak get a microscopic one at a hydro store.
Ever see run Lola run?
Let's start over.. Now let's say you....didn't give ur coco plain boiling water, then you transplanted and fed full strength nutes( 1or more tsp. v and b) to the point of full saturation, let that drain off completely then wait at least three to 7 days to feed again.. When the pots start drying out every day then u can feed everyday .
If you dig a pit you ago bury in it - Peter tosh

Click to expand...

That's it man ....only feed young plants when they need it they need Oxygen to develop the root zone properly as they dry the roots grow in search of moisture, when the root zone is Developed by all means blast the shit out of them.......Coco breathes fine with healthy thriving plants and multi feeds, the little ones just drown... Ona it will get easier.... you got this......

Cyat i wish i could eyeball it.... I'm not good enough to go by weight or volume when mixing up..... I rely heavily on my meters to the point that i have battery's and back up meters.... EC conversion charts, Ph charts, vpd charts that im not using yet...lol all that shit.........even a moisture meter that i rarely use anymore so i guess i'm getting better.. lmao.... yea i'm a rookie too..... I know....

one month in

one month in

Woo hoo, nobody's died so far, although the dubtechs may do so soon. Not dead is not dead though. I'll take the victories, no matter how subtle they may be.

I watered again this morning. First watering in a week. I was gonna do it yesterday but other issues popped up so I did it first thing this morning. I gave a foliar last night just in case.

For my own reference, I added Magnesium (Epsom salts) to get each gallon to an EC of 0.2, then added VnB to get a final EC of 1.0. Ph'd to 5.7.

In future feeds, I'm not going to add anything extra (Epsom, tap, etc.) to bump the EC, I'm just going pour in some left over mixed nutes to get an initial bump and then add VnB to get to the EC for that day. Anyone know why the VnB folks recommend getting the water to an EC of 0.3 before adding the nutes?

When I stuck my finger down into a pot along the side, there was a sense of some moisture but not wet at all. All of the 2 gallon pots took around 6 pints with roughly a pint of run off. One of the Adubbs took 7 pints. Maybe they could have been watered earlier.

I will look for a scale that I can use to weigh the pots before and after watering. That will help me cue in on how they feel in terms of weight to decide on watering.

The feeding today was at an EC of 1.0 based on a number of folks saying I should err on the light side rather than go too heavy. I'll see how it goes Cyat. If everybody goes yeller, then I'll try your suggestion of a heavier feeding. Not sure how to know how much is too much though. The run off EC was a little varied but none of them was more than 1.4.

Most of the plants did have some ugly or even dead bottom leaves, except the GG4's. I pulled any that were clearly terminal.

It's pretty clear now to me anyway that the plants that have had the greatest struggle were the ones with the worst looking roots when I moved them out of the Solo cups. The Dubtechs both look suicidal basically. The little zombie one is somehow still hanging on, but given the drop rate of its leaves, I think it's doing so by cannibalizing itself. The bigger one is harder to evaluate. Like the smaller zombie, the bigger dubtech has also had a number of lower leaves fade and drop. The upper growth is not vibrant--small leaves, kinda looks all scrunchidy-uppidy. It got bent six ways from Sunday with my supercrop midweek so I don't know how much of its current look is that vs lack of root infrastructure.

Edit: photos after watering:

I wish I had taken pictures of the DT7 before watering. The bigger one looks much better an hour after watering. Yes, it looked worse than this. The tips are heading up towards the light, so I know the basic hormonal and fluid movement systems are intact

DT7 side view


Top view of DT7, Asking to be mainlined?



the GG4's are 12 and 9 inches and the Kaya is 11. The smaller GG4 is the one that had the weaker looking roots at transplant.

The larger GG4


The smaller GG4



Winner of the thickest trunk award goes to the Kaya. It looks almost half again as thick as any of the other plants


Given the correlation I see between the ones with less growth/lack of vigor/trying to die and the quality of the roots 8 or 9 days ago, I gotta wonder if I should be treating the roots with an anti-fungal. I will go out today and try to source a stronger magnifying glass to scan for mites or other tiny plagues. Not sure when the scope I ordered will come in, I think it's on the way from China so could be a while.

I want to take the dogs out while it's cool so I'll try to edit in some pictures later this morning.

Have a nice weekend,

Ona

Microscope not a magnifying glass! Measuring runoff in coco is misleading... Google search " slurry test"

cyat said:

Microscope not a magnifying glass! Measuring runoff in coco is misleading... Google search " slurry test"

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Scope is ordered but in the mean time I was going to look for a stronger magnifying glass. I found a 45 x hand held to try for now. I just have to get some batteries. How is it the only size battery not in the house is the size needed for whatever tool or toy you want to use?


I know about using a slurry of the medium. There's a couple of points I don't understand though.

The most common directions I've seen say to use one part medium mixed with two parts distilled or RO water, for example an ounce of medium mixed with 2 ounces of water

1) how do I dig out medium from the pot to use without injuring the developing roots? I can access the soil on the surface readily but not the soil in the middle or bottom. I can't just dump the plant out either because they are fabric pots

2) if I'm using 2 parts RO or distilled water, doesn't that significantly dilute the EC of the medium? I just don't understand how the number you get from that dilution is usable

Hope all is going well on your end ONA. Things are going great here in the 207. Veg tent arrived on Tuesday. Now im just waiting for my inline fan speed controllers, two clip fans to place above the canopy, three layers of trellis, and inline duct booster fan which arrive on Tuesday. Then Im flipping to flower! Much love from the 207 Ona

MurdaMishou said:

Hope all is going well on your end ONA. Things are going great here in the 207. Veg tent arrived on Tuesday. Now im just waiting for my inline fan speed controllers, two clip fans to place above the canopy, three layers of trellis, and inline duct booster fan which arrive on Tuesday. Then Im flipping to flower! Much love from the 207 Ona

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I'll pop over to your thread in a bit Murda. Coupla errands to run first.

I saw the pics of the tent. Three trellis layers? Day-um dude.

Sounds like you're tuned and ready to run. I'm looking forward to your flowering phase.

Ona