MH vs HPS in bloom

the gnome · Aug 4, 2012

vapedg13 said:
mh produces the shit tooo...sylvania bt56....$22 a bulb....bulbs give a yellowish glow

i'm already thinking I'll be going Mh all the way with my next grow.
I bought these very cheap lite kits, elec. ballast, timer cooltube and MH and HPS bulbs.
the bulbs are about as cheap as they come, last dec I broke down and bought 2 HPS horti EYES @ $124 each.
what a waste!!
I saw virtually no difference over the cheapo HPS bulbs that came with the kit, i didn't care for the MH that came with it because switching from T5s to the Mh the plants had a 2-3 week adjustment period, the tops got spotty white areas.
it didn't happen when i got a solar max 7200K and sunmaster 6000K Mh's and this is what I'm using now.

I'm going to grab some of those BT56 1000w sylvies like vapedg13 is using,
$22each or a case of 24 for under $500...damn it man!! what have you got ta lose?

I love it when a good thread like this comes along and so much good info is in it

well I'm chopping everything in the next few days and I'll be able to post some definitive results from a few strains growing between
the Mh and HPS eye

Hash Zeppelin · Aug 5, 2012

^man what deal 22 bucks a bulb with results like that. can they be used in my digi ballasts that take hps and mh? I get my bulbs whole sale from lumatek for 80 bucks each. I may have to do a side by side with these just to see if it is worth saving the money.

growshopfrank · Aug 5, 2012

the gnome said:
i'm already thinking I'll be going Mh all the way with my next grow.
I bought these very cheap lite kits, elec. ballast, timer cooltube and MH and HPS bulbs.
the bulbs are about as cheap as they come, last dec I broke down and bought 2 HPS horti EYES @ $124 each.
what a waste!!
I saw virtually no difference over the cheapo HPS bulbs that came with the kit, i didn't care for the MH that came with it because switching from T5s to the Mh the plants had a 2-3 week adjustment period, the tops got spotty white areas.
it didn't happen when i got a solar max 7200K and sunmaster 6000K Mh's and this is what I'm using now.

I'm going to grab some of those BT56 1000w sylvies like vapedg13 is using, $22each or a case of 24 for under $500

I love it when a good thread like this comes along and so much good info is in it

well I'm chopping everything in the next few days and I'll be able to post some definitive results from a few strains growing between
the Mh and HPS eye

just a heads up the BT56 lamp is around 7" diameter they don't fit most cool tubes

the gnome · Aug 5, 2012

growshopfrank said:
just a heads up the BT56 lamp is around 7" diameter they don't fit most cool tubes

whoaaaa... thanks for the heads up GSF
my solarmax 1kw is one of those big tubby looking bulbs also and it just does work in the tubes... barely.

hopefully in the next few months I'm hoping to build a new sealed bloom room and go bare bulb with a minisplit... hopefully

the gnome · Aug 5, 2012

Hash Zeppelin said:
^man what deal 22 bucks a bulb with results like that. can they be used in my digi ballasts that take hps and mh? I get my bulbs whole sale from lumatek for 80 bucks each. I may have to do a side by side with these just to see if it is worth saving the money.

from my perspective its damn sure worth a try, eh zep! :smoke:

KT420 · Aug 5, 2012

I've read from Plantmax that you should use 7,000K MH to veg, 2,100K HPS to flower, and 10,000K MH to ripen the last 2 weeks of flower?

Anyone else heard or ran anything like that? HPS to flower for bulk but switching to ultra blue MH right at the very end for trich production?

vapedg13 · Aug 5, 2012

i have treid the expensive grow bulbs....I like the results of the sylvania....I use one of those lumtech ballast too

Suspect · Aug 5, 2012

I have been flowering with my HPS barebulb for some time until I bumped into this thread.

Got me thinking, because I have a MH bulb as well.

Currently on week 5-6..
Here's a little more information bout my bulbs, look what it says in the specs:

Light bulb Philips HPI-T 400 W. Pure blue/white light for the growing period.
This metal halide lamp is not suitable for the flowering period since it lacks the yellow/red light.

This light bulb has 35000 Lumen.
Color-temperature 4500 K
Life-cycle until 50% loss: 20000 hours

And my HPS bulb:

PHILIPS MASTER SON-T PIA Green Power 400W/220 E40 1SL

I'm better off flowering with my HPS, right?

the gnome · Aug 5, 2012

Suspect said:
I'm better off flowering with my HPS, right?

dunno? are ya?
never know till you give it a go :smoke:

my next run will be all Mh in veg and bloom given what I'm seeing now running hps sidexside w/mh in bloom.

on the Mh side it looks like my buds are at least 20% bigger, and they are more dense contrary to what Ive read.
when i cut em soon I'll be able to get a better handle on it

DrFever · Aug 5, 2012

Suspect said:
I have been flowering with my HPS barebulb for some time until I bumped into this thread.
Got me thinking, because I have a MH bulb as well.

Currently on week 5-6..
Here's a little more information bout my bulbs, look what it says in the specs:

Light bulb Philips HPI-T 400 W. Pure blue/white light for the growing period.
This metal halide lamp is not suitable for the flowering period since it lacks the yellow/red light.

This light bulb has 35000 Lumen.
Color-temperature 4500 K
Life-cycle until 50% loss: 20000 hours

View Image

And my HPS bulb:

PHILIPS MASTER SON-T PIA Green Power 400W/220 E40 1SL

View Image

I'm better off flowering with my HPS, right?

yea your better off i have run mh in-between hps makes for a good combo producing more leafy bud there is a reason why hps is used in flowering and its like fall equinox where sun is not directly over its more away giving off the yellow spectrum of the lighting mh is more like summer light the blues etc

Zdub7k · Aug 6, 2012

dang...lots of good ideas folks, You've got me thinking.....I just might stagger a couple MH bulbs in the room.....although my trich production is redic already...low temps= LOTS OF TRICHS

Space Ghost · Aug 6, 2012

I did a few runs with 1:1 mh/hps 1k's, worked just fine for me.... will do it again...

d3cryption · Aug 6, 2012

Space Ghost said:
I did a few runs with 1:1 mh/hps 1k's, worked just fine for me.... will do it again...

View Image

View Image

View Image

henery · Aug 7, 2012

Suspect said:
I have been flowering with my HPS barebulb for some time until I bumped into this thread.
Got me thinking, because I have a MH bulb as well.

Currently on week 5-6..
Here's a little more information bout my bulbs, look what it says in the specs:

Light bulb Philips HPI-T 400 W. Pure blue/white light for the growing period.
This metal halide lamp is not suitable for the flowering period since it lacks the yellow/red light.

This light bulb has 35000 Lumen.
Color-temperature 4500 K
Life-cycle until 50% loss: 20000 hours

View Image

And my HPS bulb:

PHILIPS MASTER SON-T PIA Green Power 400W/220 E40 1SL

View Image

I'm better off flowering with my HPS, right?

I would have to say by the spectral output of the 2 lamps you are comparing the Hps is a way better lamp here is my reasoning!
First the hps has more output a brighter bulb there is no arguing that!
Second is the hps has more light in the useable range than the mh!
Have a look at the biggest spike in the mh color it is green which the plant only reflects back!!!
So the mh is dimmer and puts out less par watts!

This may not be the case in every mh as you can pick different K outputs from bulbs!

So the best case would be have a mixture of far red super hps and a far blue mh!
My reasoning behind this thought is if you color correct a hps more blue or a mh with more red all you are doing is wasting lots of output in the green spectrum witch to plants is totally useless!!!!!!

TGT · Aug 8, 2012

I have used both with the same clone and found that hps is the far more productive bulb, while the mh makes more leaf and smaller tighter buds, but yield weights are better with hps. I have only run a controlled experiment with the one clone, so other clones may react differently, but I too have run other clones and found hps to be superior, but only once the same clone. Hope this helps and makes sense, I'm a little out of it tonight lol.

TGT

vapedg13 · Aug 8, 2012

TGT said:
I have used both with the same clone and found that hps is the far more productive bulb, while the mh makes more leaf and smaller tighter buds, but yield weights are better with hps. I have only run a controlled experiment with the one clone, so other clones may react differently, but I too have run other clones and found hps to be superior, but only once the same clone. Hope this helps and makes sense, I'm a little out of it tonight lol.

TGT

I respectively disagree.....

Look at his huge bud ..no leaf.. under mh

the gnome · Aug 8, 2012

like vaped13 from what I hear,
what I am personally seeing is the exact opposite using only M.
on the same plant split between the hps and MH(both 1000w) the hps side has noticably smaller buds and they are not as dense as the buds on the Mh side, and like vapes pics, it nearly all bud on the Mh side.
I agree what leaf there is on it is probably enhanced/greener under the MH
but the genetics are gonna control the calyx to leaf ratio fro the get go imo

standing back and looking at the plant between these 2 bulbs
the difference between them is very obvious.
this is what caught my attention in the 1st place and got me started on this

hey vaped... dammnit man i love that strain you have!, is that the double diesel?

Hash Zeppelin · Aug 8, 2012

^so one thing I am noticing is people are getting the best results when they dont change up spectrum and stress the plant. So my new hypothesis is stick with the same spectrum during veg and flower for best results due to less plant stress.

DrShio · Aug 8, 2012

All of this is absolutely strain-dependent (some like HPS, most like MH).

And HashZ, I'd have to say it seems you have the best summary there: the plant develops itself from the ground up to use a certain spectrum. When put into a situation where the old spectrum no longer exists, and a completely different limited spectrum exists (MH-->HPS flip), the plant is very limited in its ability to thrive due to its predisposition towards its original spectrum. I think that is why it is important to use full spectrum in veg at the very least, so they can handle a red-focused spectrum (such as a 3k MH) transition in flower.

It seems that good metal halides will outperform HPS in most cases. I think people often have a bad experience with cheap, neutral metal halides which predominantly output in green spectrum, which is unused.

In my opinon, full spectrum is always better. MH technology has significantly advanced, the bulbs supply much more usable energy to the plant than the limited spectrum HPS.

To further prove this point - I just checked the Sunmaster website and they recently updated their site:

http://www.sunmastergrowlamps.com/Sunmaster2012/SunmasterProducts.htm

The spectrum PAR overlays speak for themselves and can be used to understand other bulb-type performance.

The former "Cool Deluxe" now "Blue Ice" spectrum is very nice, including plenty of UV - I have found much success with this bulb compared to HPS.

DrShio · Aug 8, 2012

This also explains the confusion as to why people think HPS is better:

http://www.sunmastergrowlamps.com/Sunmaster2012/SunmasterScience.htm

MH vs HPS in bloom

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