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Old 11-27-2010, 03:43 AM #1
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Plant Growth Regulators (PGRs) thread

Hey all,

I will add to this thread in the coming days, I will post many references and studies for usage of PGRs like brassinosteroids (natural and analogs), triacontanol, auxins, SAR (Systemic Acquired Resistance) inducers, cytokinins (natural and analogs), gibberellins, etc.

I will also post online stores where you can order PGRs and how to calculate the ppm of PGRs for application. When we apply PGRs we are doing so "exogenously" (from the outside); aka "exogenous application".

Two terms that will often be used are "source" and "sink" tissue. Source tissue is where the PGRs are made by the plant, and sink tissue is where the PGRs are translocated to, (sometimes they are not translocated). For example, the rooting hormones IBA and NAA are formed in source tissue (leafs, usually young ones) and trasnlocated to sink tissue (roots, or "basal" end for cuttings without roots).

A.) For now, here is a good head start for people new to the topic:
"Plant hormone receptors: perception is everything"
Brenda Chow and Peter McCourt
Genes & Dev. 2006. vol. 20: pp. 1998-2008


B.) And here is something basic I wrote the other day about my usage of some other PGR's I use:

1. Triacontanol:

Increases rate of photosynthesis, growth rate and yield. I use it at up to 10 ppm, but after testing lower ppm found lower is better. I am using 0.1 ppm now for testing. Apply every 2 weeks into pre-flower and early budset.


2. Brassinosteroid (as brassinolide or 24-homobrassinolide or 24-epibrassinolide):

Increases rate of photosynthesis, phototropism (light tracking), stress resistance, yield, growth, etc., etc. I found if applying in pre-flower can make plants stretch if over applied; I am testing not applying during pre-flowering. I use it at 0.05 ppm, but 0.01 ppm is also good (lower is better if the same result is found), co-apply with triacontanol.


3. Jasmonates (as methyl ester of jasomic acid [MeJA], aka methyl jasomate, jasomonic acid [JA] or methyl dihydrojasmonate [MDHJ]):

MeJA increases glandular trichome density (over X leaf area) and number (total trichs); as well as being evidenced to increase terpenoid content. Salicylic acid (i.e. Advanced Nutrients 'Scorpion', or the analog aspirin) that is used to induce SAR (Systemic Acquired Resistance), hinders trichome density and number and has "negative cross-talk" to jasmonates, i.e. it hinders some jasmonate actions.

There is some evidence that brassinosteroids and jasmonic acid also have negative cross-talk, thus I apply methyl jasmonic acid alone (i.e., methyl easter of jasomic acid), and only in pre-flowering. I apply it as 100 ppm, but 50 ppm is also good and I am testing at lower ppm soon, e.g., 10 ppm and 25 ppm (lower is better if the same result is found).


4. Gibberellic acid (as GA3):

It makes plants stretch/grow, but that's not why I use it, when co-applied with jasmonates they work in synergy to increase trich density and number. However, this can really make plants stretch so use with caution. This can really make plants stretch so I won't suggest ppm right now, I need to do more testing with methyl jasmonates during pre-flowing and flowering...
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Old 11-27-2010, 03:45 AM #2
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MOD:

Can you please change the title to "Plant Growth Regulators (PGRs)". Thanks!
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:49 AM #3
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Old 11-27-2010, 08:08 AM #4
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Mistress,

You still misunderstand ppm. 25 ppm is still 25 ppm in one gallon, or one million gallons of water. What changes is the quantity of substance (ex. Tria) depending on volume of water to reach 25 ppm; BUT, it's still 25 ppm.

The Tria reference you posted in some other thread is not legit, it's not academic level, nor is it correct. And yet, you think it is, and you still don't cite it in your post above. I think you missed the whole reason for this sub-forum. And to add insult to injury, the author of your reference doesn't cite his references! Your reference is a fail. Even if your reference wasn't a fail, one reference is not sufficient, you should try to have at least 3.

I will post up references in the days to come, like I wrote. And I will help people learn how to calculate ppm at a later time, if they need help. But it's pretty dam easy to calculate ppm by percent purity of product. Using a goal of X ppm allows one to figure the quantity of Y product needed dependent upon it's purity, to reach X ppm in Z volume of water.

I stared this thread for future use, in the next week or so.
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Old 11-27-2010, 08:33 AM #5
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:39 AM #6
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Just to play the devils advocate to your devils advocate mistress, your math is wrong as well. 25 ppm by spurr, 0.1 ppm (1 part per 10 million) by you who say spurs 25 ppm is 25 000 times over.

Wrong.

0.1 ppm to 25 ppm is 250 times different. If you're going to stir about someone else's math, at least get your own right.

Of course that amount is massively different in your second quote - as 0.1 - 1.0 micrograms. Which is it to be?

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Old 11-27-2010, 02:33 PM #7
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i dont know the answer, but it may be best for the sake of the 'flow' not to get bogged down in that detail so early in the thread.

spurr, plant growth regulators are one of the subjects that i think can have big applications to our grows. i was intending to try and post a simple description of the way that auxins, cytokinin, gibberelic acid and ethylene work and interact as a result of practices such as topping, training, cloning, pollination etc. would that be useful here or should i start another thread? i just want people to equate the stuff they are already doing to the way these regulators work. EDIT - check the link i posted in my next post below!
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:31 PM #8
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that is incorrect........

also, tria is insoluble in water, so that 25-thousand-fold over-application will just roll off of the leaf onto the ground!

finding it is not the issue, making it soluble in a solution is.
Spurr is correct in his statement in how he worded it.

Quote:
(by *mistress*) - 25 ppm in how much water?


As for your 'also, tria...'
Quote:
Triacontanol powder is a wax-like flake that must be dissolved into a liquid. The best method of turning the Triacontanol powder into liquid is by using a food additive called Polysorbate 20. Among other uses Polysorbate is used in ice cream.

I placed one scoop (1/32 spoon) of the Triacontanol in a glass container with 50 ml of water and one scoop of Polysorbate 20. After heating it in the microwave and shaking it a bit the Triacontanol was completely dissolved.
Pretty sure it was Trinity Gold that used to apply triacontanol a few years ago and remember him saying he would microwave it so the above prep method I found through a simple online search rings true. I have no experience with tria and am sure that Spurr will get around to verifying or refuting that quote.

Agree with Mr. Fista to get your stuff straight first before posting, agree with VG that this stuff will clog what looks like could be a very informative thread and am sure Spurr will post his references and clarify/support certain issues/statements at some point.

Last edited by Yankee Grower; 11-27-2010 at 09:59 PM.. Reason: corrected grammar
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:55 PM #9
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1 PPM is just that. one part per million; sure it can be equated to microliters/liter but that is only one conversion for one application. I can be one part per million in a crowd of one million. It is that simple.

Mistress; I believe that the use of terms like 'squirm' and 'tee hee' and your 'tone' in general are counter-productive and baiting. Let's please try to not have that here.
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Old 11-27-2010, 08:00 PM #10
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I have Triacontanol, Brassinolide, Chitosan and Benzylaminopurine (Cytokinin), been trying to find Jasmonic Acid for some time, but not easy to track down.

The Benzylaminopurine has to be disolved in alcohol, I used 99% IPA with a drop of Ecover washing up liquid then added that liquid solution to the water. It stimulates branching, I used it at 1000ppm and a spray application on a vegging plant made all the side branches grow like mad, it's very useful to use on mothers a week or so before taking cuttings, not used it for a while as I have bottles of Phyt-Amin, Superthrive and Seaweed Extract to use up, but I will be using it again shortly, I have a theory that spraying it every 3 days for the first 12 days after putting a plant into 12/12 will make the plant grow bushy rather than stretching tall.

Triacontanol is easy to dissolve, you use some Polysorbate 20 and warm up the solution in the microwave, then it dissolves readily with a little agitation of the solution. I have the Triacontanol and Polysorbate 20, but never got round to using them, I made some solution but ended up giving it to a friend as I had to shut my grow down for a while.

I haven't used the Brassinolide or Chitosan yet, but I have a series of experiments planned in the coming year.
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