Indoor landrace preservation techniques.

Sunshineinabag · Sep 28, 2020

I really dig older sat Dom euphoric chemovars. I digress I am on the 45 parallel or thereabouts...so I have 4-5 solid months of below 40f temps. May I ask the farmers here with experience trying this would give for advice in regards to all facets/stages of life for the chemovars. Can newer led tech get the job done for landraces? I appreciate your advice/help. :dance013:

aliceklar · Oct 2, 2020

Dude I was literally just about to start this thread myself and did a search and *boom*. Subbed as a fellow lover of tall-happy-sativa, & attempting to do it under LEDs.

Sunshineinabag · Oct 2, 2020

We will upwards and onwards with this thing!

aliceklar · Oct 3, 2020

Main thing I'm aiming to do, before any crossing or selecting, is to make sure Ive pollinated every female with every male in a new batch of landrace seeds, and saved the seeds labelled by mother, and the bud I get from them I also label by mother. That way I have preserved all the genetics in that batch, and have plenty of seeds to play with down the line, and enough to smoke

just have to pick the seeds out... The moms that smoke nicest are the ones I'll take forward - and select for quicker flowering and more compact form, whilst keeping a good quality high, also looking out for nice plants to make into clone moms.

aliceklar · Oct 3, 2020

Sunshineinabag said:
We will upwards and onwards with this thing!

Hey, Sunshine, just realised that this thread is in the growroom design forum - wondering if it might get more attention if you posted in the landraces forum??

Sunshineinabag · Oct 3, 2020

It done mistakenly........I'm so new to selection and phenotypes I would appreciate someone walking me through this

aliceklar · Oct 3, 2020

There are some experienced growers and skilled growroom designers and builders on this forum - maybe some of them will offer advice about the project. What sort of space / budget are you working to? You handy with carpentry / electrics, & have time to build your own custom setup, or you need a plug'n'play tent system? Or is this to fit into your existing setup (indoors, out, both???) man too many questions. Sorry, just got me thinkiing about this now... :smoke:

Meanwhile, I'm gonna post something similar in the landraces forum - we're on the same road - lets see what other knowledge we can find. :dance013:

Rembetis · Oct 3, 2020

Would be better to put this in the Landrace section but you are asking about lights too.

I grow Landrace Sativas but I've never tried LED's. They require lots of light intensity, like around 70 to 80 watts a square ft. to do it right. You can get good results with less but you wont get great results. Depends on the strain too. Lebanese Sativas versus tropical for example. I run Hortilux 600's in a 4x4 tent and for Lebs and Afghani types its fine. For my current Jamaican Landrace I am running two 600's for 80 watts sq. ft

sbeanonnamellow · Oct 4, 2020

Never tried it, but I always wanted to make a room dedicated to a specific goegraphic location. So, instead of set on/off schedule for the lighting, the daylength would be determined by a real day to day change for a real place. Get the spectrum and intensity as close as possible to what it would see in a given microclimate. Temps, humidity, even barometric pressure and more if possible.

It would be like following an entire season for a small village somewhere in the middle of nowhere, only indoors at your fingertips. I've thought about it a bunch.

aliceklar · Oct 4, 2020

sbeanonnamellow said:
Never tried it, but I always wanted to make a room dedicated to a specific goegraphic location. So, instead of set on/off schedule for the lighting, the daylength would be determined by a real day to day change for a real place. Get the spectrum and intensity as close as possible to what it would see in a given microclimate. Temps, humidity, even barometric pressure and more if possible.

It would be like following an entire season for a small village somewhere in the middle of nowhere, only indoors at your fingertips. I've thought about it a bunch.

Please do it! :canabis:

That is a very cool idea & I'd be fascinated to see how it goes. Dont think I'd go as far as trying to simulate monsoons, but I have certainly thought about trying to replicate light schedules - I've heard a lot of people say that 12/12 is not ideal for landraces that originate close to the equator.

Sunshineinabag · Oct 4, 2020

sbeanonnamellow said:
Never tried it, but I always wanted to make a room dedicated to a specific goegraphic location. So, instead of set on/off schedule for the lighting, the daylength would be determined by a real day to day change for a real place. Get the spectrum and intensity as close as possible to what it would see in a given microclimate. Temps, humidity, even barometric pressure and more if possible.

It would be like following an entire season for a small village somewhere in the middle of nowhere, only indoors at your fingertips. I've thought about it a bunch.

I have the location, the fortitude, the maturity and experience to get this done.....it always about money or having capital to get established...95% of the time where I live it requires shaking hands with vampire's...fk that

Sunshineinabag · Oct 4, 2020

aliceklar said:
Please do it! That is a very cool idea & I'd be fascinated to see how it goes. Dont think I'd go as far as trying to simulate monsoons, but I have certainly thought about trying to replicate light schedules - I've heard a lot of people say that 12/12 is not ideal for landraces that originate close to the equator.

When I see the altitudes these chemovar landraces thrive in I wanna be high up like 2500m at least, like the sexton dolomites

Rembetis · Oct 4, 2020

sbeanonnamellow said:
Never tried it, but I always wanted to make a room dedicated to a specific goegraphic location. So, instead of set on/off schedule for the lighting, the daylength would be determined by a real day to day change for a real place. Get the spectrum and intensity as close as possible to what it would see in a given microclimate. Temps, humidity, even barometric pressure and more if possible.

It would be like following an entire season for a small village somewhere in the middle of nowhere, only indoors at your fingertips. I've thought about it a bunch.

I do it all the time. That's how I grow Landraces although I dont reduce time on a daily basis as it would be in nature. You have to modify that idea to make it practical indoors. Getting the light cycle correct for a given location is a big step in the right direction when dealing with Landrace genetics. Once you research light cycles you will realize how much BS gets passed around here as fact.

For hybrids it's anything goes. Most have been bred indoors under all kind of schemes so it doesn't make much difference. Growing pure Landraces forces you to step up your game. Its an art really to bring out the best in them indoors and well worth the effort to figure out if you want to be a top grower. All my opinion of course.

Rembetis · Oct 5, 2020

aliceklar said:
Please do it! I've heard a lot of people say that 12/12 is not ideal for landraces that originate close to the equator.

You grow Tropicals and even sub tropicals on 12/12. People keep trying to grow these like a Kush or hybrid and then wonder why it doesnt work out.

The light cycle in the Tropics varies from 12/12 to 13.5/10.5 on the longest day. For Afghanis, Kush's Himalayans its a bit longer. I've never grown any Northern Landrace or hybrid for that matter on more than 16/8 for veg. Check out the cycle from the area your strain comes from. You will be surprised. You have to go pretty far north in the world to get 18 hour days. Places where Cannabis does not grow naturally except for maybe Siberian Ruderalis.

Also check out when that particular area goes to 12/12. You will be surprised what you find. It will make you rethink light cycles.

Benny106 · Oct 5, 2020

Rembetis said:
More BS. Whoever told you that doesn't KNOW shit! You grow Tropicals and even sub tropicals on 12/12. People keep trying to grow these like a Kush or hybrid and then wonder why it doesnt work out.

I think that it is a matter of opinion, although 12/12 suits most things some tropical varieties will grow on for months at this schedule, so 10/14 is more suitable. 18/6 is preferable to keep things in veg, mainly the faster triggering bld lines that will flower at 16/8, you can veg on any schedule if you flash any type of light to reset the photo response hormones in the dark period, same way light leaks work.

With technology and money you can do anything, even match the indoor environment as close as possible to the region of choice. Spectrum of light will never be as good as the sun, but we can try.

Rembetis · Oct 5, 2020

You are absolutely right BeAn. I didnt want to post an overly long response going into all the ins and outs of growing Tropicals at this point. Maybe if the discussion progresses.

I drop down to 10/14 to control growth, especially with unworked Landrace types. Also, because the indoor environment sometimes causes issues with ripening I will use that trick of reducing light near the end to encourage the finishing. I was mainly talking about people trying to grow them like BLD with 60 day veg and light schedules of that type. With the already long flowering times it just makes it a nightmare to attempt.

As I said, I havent grown anything with more than a 16/8 based on light cycles in the homeland of any of the strains I have grown. There are absolutely situations where it is necessary to use longer cycles like keeping mother plants etc. Some people push the light cycles to 20/4 or 24/0 with the thinking being more light is better. That doesn't make sense to me. We all need down time and rest and I believe the plants do too.

And if longer light is more productive then why 12/12 for flower? 12/12 happens the first day of fall. Flowering begins way before that in most places so why not use the extra light and do 13.5? I did my Lebanese that way and it worked great. I actually was at 14/8 for awhile in the beginning and eventually went down to 12/12 right at the end. Had I used 12/12 I would have had two less hours of light to build my flowers.

I am retired from several decades in Agriculture so I tend to look at what nature does as my guide. My indoor grow is greatly affected by outdoor weather so I do try to match the strain with the right conditions at the right time of year as much as possible. Same with light intensity. Beyond that it would be very costly to attempt. I suppose if that guy builds a hyperbaric chamber to simulate altitude he could make some cash on the side treating Scuba Divers with the Bends. (Sorry, had to bust your balls sbeanonnamellow) :biggrin:

aliceklar · Oct 5, 2020

Rembetis said:
Y
And if longer light is more productive then why 12/12 for flower? 12/12 happens the first day of fall. Flowering begins way before that in most places so why not use the extra light and do 13.5? I did my Lebanese that way and it worked great. I actually was at 14/8 for awhile in the beginning and eventually went down to 12/12 right at the end. Had I used 12/12 I would have had two less hours of light to build my flowers.

OK, you got me thinking now... I'm growing Johaar at the moment and it is from 29 degrees North. that latitude gives a maximum of 11/13 in the depths of winter, and 13/11 in the summer. Does this mean it might make sense to start them off at 13/11, and then go to 11/13 to flower? Might this help control stretch? I started them at 18/6, and have just flipped to 12/12 this week.

Wondering about using longer times for flowering - in that case how do you trigger flower? Or is it just a case of knowing the variety and what it likes?

Benny106 · Oct 5, 2020

Perhaps as a compromise in this case the altitude can be simulated by higher uv, the actual atmospheric pressure in the home environment, what would it impart to the phenotype?

Sunshineinabag · Oct 5, 2020

BeAn v.2.0 said:
I think that it is a matter of opinion, although 12/12 suits most things some tropical varieties will grow on for months at this schedule, so 10/14 is more suitable. 18/6 is preferable to keep things in veg, mainly the faster triggering bld lines that will flower at 16/8, you can veg on any schedule if you flash any type of light to reset the photo response hormones in the dark period, same way light leaks work.

With technology and money you can do anything, even match the indoor environment as close as possible to the region of choice. Spectrum of light will never be as good as the sun, but we can try.

I'll be doing things with trial and error...I've learned here that it's best to just try it myself before responding

Rembetis · Oct 5, 2020

Yes BeAn. You are right on once again. I meant to point that out earlier. Atmospheric pressure changes with Highs and Low pressure systems and is not constant so going to all that trouble to maintain that particular parameter is kinda pointless. The higher UV is the difference between altitudes.

In an effort to better dial in my Tropical Sativa environment I have evolved to a twin open fixture set up. I am right at 80 watts per Sq. Ft. I am a Hortilux guy so I run the Eye Blue 600's specifically because of their spectrum and because of the UV it includes. I found out from talking with Hortilux that the glass in my AC hood was actually blocking the UV.

Its not quite cold enough to go with both hoods open so right at the moment I am running one hood open and the other Air Cooled. Maybe in a week or two I can let my Jamaicans bask in the full glory of the UV.

Indoor landrace preservation techniques.

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