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twisted yellowing leaves, stunted growth (pix inside)

S

SeaMaiden

That looks like scorching to me, either from heat caused by light or from 'too much' light itself. You say the leaves are getting in the way? Is it on any shaded leaves? Same height? Do you see any other pattern to it at all?

Examining what few leaves around that area that you're showing suggest that it's not happy with the pH range. I suggest shifting it down.

Right now I can't remember your media, if it's soil I personally prefer to go with a slightly lower pH range, 6.2-6.8 (the exception here for me are my outdoor ladies. They are grown in raised beds utilizing soil food web methods, and so are simply irrigated with unfiltered well water and fed teas and the like using clean, neutral pH water, either RO/DI or rain water).

If it's a soilless media the pH range needs to be lower.
 
that might be a noob question, but how do I determine the soil's PH (yes, organic soil + perlite is my medium) from measuring water and runoff PH?
I did measure the soils PH with specific agricultiral PH pills & destilled water, but those were like the strips: wait, look, compare to the scale which gave me pretty much nothing, oher than a vague "neutral to slightly acidic" 6-7.

this specific issue appeared on some of the lower leaves, they're shaded (or were until now). they turned very pale (because I stopped feeding the plants to fix the overfeeding problems and to clear the soil), but they're coming back now. it's a ery localized problem, it's on that branch only (oh well, it was on a few of the huge fan leaves from way under the canopee, but those shrivelled and died, I think because they didn't get too much light after it got kinda crowded in my tent and weren't very useful anyway).

other than that they seem to look healthy: sideshots are growing like crazy, I move up the lights pretty much every second day and they eat & drink a lot (we had some very hot / dry days around here now it's cooler and they seem to like that, too).

but thanks so much for your helpful input, SeaMaiden ... MUCH appreciated

one more question, as I'm not 100% sure: I'm slowly switching them to 12/12, which means I shift the on/off cycle from 6-24 to 20-8 o'clock over the course of 2 weeks.
why? because summer's coming and I reckoned that having the lights on at night might keep temps in an acceptable range. from what I measured temps seem to be about 5-10°C over room temp in my tent, and since we get 25-30° on really hot days, I thought I'll keep them asleep during daytime and have the lights on at night.

I'll install the exhaust fan + scrubber on Sunday, which should help to prevent too high temps in the tent as well. anyway: does that make sense? My issue: lights off during daytime is more vulnerable to light leaks than lights off at night, right (because it's dark, of course ... and I think electricity is indeed cheaper at night, for some reason)? I will examine & tape up every inch of the tent to prevent light leaks, but that's all I can do ... either this or lights off at night

so what's better: to avoid excessive heat build up or to minimize the risk of light leaks?
 
S

SeaMaiden

that might be a noob question, but how do I determine the soil's PH (yes, organic soil + perlite is my medium) from measuring water and runoff PH?
I did measure the soils PH with specific agricultiral PH pills & destilled water, but those were like the strips: wait, look, compare to the scale which gave me pretty much nothing, oher than a vague "neutral to slightly acidic" 6-7.
Just concern yourself with the feed and water pH here. When you can get a decent pH meter then you can more easily perform a slurry test that has some accuracy.
this specific issue appeared on some of the lower leaves, they're shaded (or were until now). they turned very pale (because I stopped feeding the plants to fix the overfeeding problems and to clear the soil), but they're coming back now. it's a ery localized problem, it's on that branch only (oh well, it was on a few of the huge fan leaves from way under the canopee, but those shrivelled and died, I think because they didn't get too much light after it got kinda crowded in my tent and weren't very useful anyway).

other than that they seem to look healthy: sideshots are growing like crazy, I move up the lights pretty much every second day and they eat & drink a lot (we had some very hot / dry days around here now it's cooler and they seem to like that, too).

but thanks so much for your helpful input, SeaMaiden ... MUCH appreciated

one more question, as I'm not 100% sure: I'm slowly switching them to 12/12, which means I shift the on/off cycle from 6-24 to 20-8 o'clock over the course of 2 weeks.
why? because summer's coming and I reckoned that having the lights on at night might keep temps in an acceptable range. from what I measured temps seem to be about 5-10°C over room temp in my tent, and since we get 25-30° on really hot days, I thought I'll keep them asleep during daytime and have the lights on at night.
Why are you doing it this way, by making the change slowly? If you're growing inside, there seems to be little benefit to be gained by changing the photoperiod slowly over time. Just change the photoperiod to 12/12, get over that two week post-flip stretch, and be on your way to flowering them out.
I'll install the exhaust fan + scrubber on Sunday, which should help to prevent too high temps in the tent as well. anyway: does that make sense? My issue: lights off during daytime is more vulnerable to light leaks than lights off at night, right (because it's dark, of course ... and I think electricity is indeed cheaper at night, for some reason)? I will examine & tape up every inch of the tent to prevent light leaks, but that's all I can do ... either this or lights off at night
Depending on where you live your power provider may reduce rates during off-peak hours. Maybe that's where you got that idea.
so what's better: to avoid excessive heat build up or to minimize the risk of light leaks?
Avoid excessive heat. If you're running bagseed, then there's a big risk of hermaphroditism, if not then don't worry too much about it. Excessive heat will kill the grow a lot more certainly than light leaks, IMO.
 
okay, clones are fine, plants are fine, everythings back to normal I guess

the scrubber is installed and seems to be able to keep the temps incheck as well (I have like 20°C romm temp here, the tent + lights take like 15mins to go from that to 32°C which is ... not so good. but that the exhaust sucks in enough fresh air I can keep it at a steady 26°C :D

I'm changing to flowering slowly as I still want them t grow around my net a bit, also it seemed like getting them from 6am-12pm to 8pm-8am in one step ... dunno, I had to decide between a very long light or dark period or doing it gradually. they seem to like it.

okay, so I'm going 8 to 8 (12/12) on them next week, changing bulbs & feeding schedule soon. oh boy, I'm exited

one more thing: I bind them down to the net so the tips form a single surface sooner or later. I try to leave holes in that roof for smaller shots to come up and join the parade, but the big fan leaves below started dying off, probably becase there's not much light around to be had ... is that normal for a SCROG? (It's my 1st time SCROGing, so please excuse that noobish question)
 
S

SeaMaiden

I don't think you need to do that (changing to flowering slowly) just to get your net/screen filled. Depending on the strain (we always say that!) the post-flip stretch will be all you need.

Lower leaves die off when they've given up the food they're storing. Focus on the good growth instead of trying to get inferior growth to catch up, if that makes any sense.

Glad to read that everything is in order!
 
okay, got them on 12/12 now, changed the bulbs, feeding schedule, lowered RH and everything. thanks for the advice, I guess I'm still somewhat "outdoor" oriented when it comes to lights. but you're right: having one big leap might confusing for the plants, but many smaller leaps in between might be even worse. dunno.

oh but one mire question, I couldn't really find n answer to that in sick plants thread:
one of them appears to display signs of a calcium def. is it enough to water with our regular (very 'hard' tap water) for some time or should I get some proper lime? I usually use rain water, which is rather soft.

our tap water is so hard, it leaves white residue on whatever it touches ... I read elsewhere that this might be enough to help plants cover their need for calcium, but it wasn't a growers forum, but something about tomatoes. so ... dos that actually work?

thanks in advance, you're a great help here ... I try and worry not too much, but it's hard not to for a 1st time tent grower. everything is new and exciting ... and a possible problem, too ;D
 
S

SeaMaiden

Oooo... you know, that's difficult for me to say, purely based on my own experience at home. We're on a well and it's high in both carbonate (CaCO3 and MgCO3 are the most commonly found forms) and general hardness, and when I was growing in coir I thought it should be sufficient. Nothing could have been further from the truth! I had to switch to RO and then add back Ca and Mg (mostly Ca).

Ca is an extremely important element, too, so you do want to address laying down this relatively immobile element early on in the plant's life. Blossom end rot has ruined a LOT of tomatoes in my garden!

So, I would say yes, go ahead and add the lime, which I'm assuming is dolomite/ag lime and not gypsum or hydrated lime. You can also foliar Ca, which won't 'fix' the problems, it will keep them from progressing. I should qualify by saying that for Ca- ANY treatment will not fix what's already become a problem like spotting and necrosis, it will ONLY stop the progression. Make sense?
 
thanks, SeaMaiden. added lime and it seems to be okay so far

so ... the plants appear to stretch and slowly go into flowering. sweet. one of them developed little white hairs on the knots. I take that as a very good sign. the second doesn't do anything much ... undecided so far

but one of them clearly does something and I'm afraid it's a rooster in the hen house, so to speak. is already possible to confirm my suspicion from those pics ... or am I just paranoid and that's actually just new shots?

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S

SeaMaiden

Yeah, I think I see his berries down in there. But if he's a good guy, maybe he's a keeper, worth his pollen, ya know?

Double-checking his package. It's a dude.
 
thanks for confirming this.
Looked into the tent as soon as the lights went on and yup: plant 1 had his balls all over the place ... so he got deported. I took a few clones in case I get the chance to pollinate a few leftover flowers (they're good seeds, no bag seeds but sweet Netherlands import seeds), maybe I can save a few for the winter or whatever.

plant 3 now shows white feathers all over the plant and starts to flower for real. plant 2 also developed feathery little hairs on some shots so it's perfect: 2 plants to keep and flower.

to be honest: I was battling way too high RH the past few days (especially during lights out) because the place got way too crowded. I'm somewhat relieved that one of them volunteered to leave, so I didn't have to give away a precious female. RH's in check for now, a dehumidifier should be here tomorrow ... and that's that

Now I can spread the two ladies all over the net, which leaves a lot more space for airflow and light to come thru :D

yeah, now every evening I can't wait to open the tent and have a peek or two. I know why I love doing this ... it's not just the product, it's the process as well. I just love gardening after a hard day of work, lights down, music on, wire, cutters, watering can, magnifying glasses ... designing my plants bonsai-style. wonderful hobby, isn't it?
 
hi there ... after some time without any further troubles, I might have a new issue:

it's now week 6of flowering, number 1 & 2 did really great so far after 2 stirred up some trouble earlier (which is why I started this thread). I had some trouble with Fungus Gnats, but I nematoded the crap outta those little buggers and they seem to be receding. I still may have a minor case of root aphids tho ... not sure but it looks like it. not too many (had far worse), but when I dig up some soil I usually see one or two bugs running away.

feeding schedule as planned, PH around 6.4, temps due a sudden colder period perfectly normal but there's some wilting going on in the lower regions, maybe it's just leaves dying off ... but they appear to dry out from the tips, or just yellow and then fall off.

especially plant 1 is doing perfectly fine, bud-wise (see picture), but plant 2 is lagging behind: small buds, bud leaves yellowing or not going fully green (dunno which ... see picture).
Also ... when I water the plants, 1 will have reasonable runoff, slowly creeping out of the pot, whereas two doesn't seem to be able to keep the water, even when I water really slow. It just runs through like nothing for some reason even though the are in the very same soil mix

could this (the stunted growth, the water issue, the slow budding) be the root aphids? I do have imidacloprid at hand but I'm somewhat reluctand to put it to use in week 6 of flowering. but then again I may have no choice. What to do?

SeaMaiden? anyone? thanks :D

Hans

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Hydro-Soil

Active member
Veteran
Hi there. 1st post of a long-time lurker.

We had a crisis with heavy metals contaminated weed polluting the market around here not too long ago, so I decided to not buy anymore and grow my own ... again, but this time indoors and with proper equipment.

I'm greatly interested in information like this. Would love to see it posted with as much detail as possible on plants/meds/effects/problems, possibly in the Medical forum?

Thanks so much.

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

Edit: Yes, I see the new growth on the second plant going yellow. Still looking great and recoverable, you're in good hands. :)
 
S

SeaMaiden

hi there ... after some time without any further troubles, I might have a new issue:

it's now week 6of flowering, number 1 & 2 did really great so far after 2 stirred up some trouble earlier (which is why I started this thread). I had some trouble with Fungus Gnats, but I nematoded the crap outta those little buggers and they seem to be receding. I still may have a minor case of root aphids tho ... not sure but it looks like it. not too many (had far worse), but when I dig up some soil I usually see one or two bugs running away.

feeding schedule as planned, PH around 6.4, temps due a sudden colder period perfectly normal but there's some wilting going on in the lower regions, maybe it's just leaves dying off ... but they appear to dry out from the tips, or just yellow and then fall off.

especially plant 1 is doing perfectly fine, bud-wise (see picture), but plant 2 is lagging behind: small buds, bud leaves yellowing or not going fully green (dunno which ... see picture).
Also ... when I water the plants, 1 will have reasonable runoff, slowly creeping out of the pot, whereas two doesn't seem to be able to keep the water, even when I water really slow. It just runs through like nothing for some reason even though the are in the very same soil mix

could this (the stunted growth, the water issue, the slow budding) be the root aphids? I do have imidacloprid at hand but I'm somewhat reluctand to put it to use in week 6 of flowering. but then again I may have no choice. What to do?

SeaMaiden? anyone? thanks :D

Hans

View Image
Mmm... well, first off, if there IS a problem with root aphids infesting these plants, it's got to be at an incredibly low level. They look pretty good to me. But if growth has stalled then it is certainly at least a consideration, assuming you've already made the positive ID of root aphids.

IF that is the case, then I cannot recommend you use *any* imidacloprid product. I would either do my best to nurse them along, or use any other product that doesn't have as long a PHI (pre-harvest interval) as imid products do. I found complete success using Spectracide with Triazicide and treating not only the plants but the entire area with it. I flooded my trays for several hours, twice, and that took care of the root zone. Then I sprayed the rooms and adjacent areas, hating the stink and the action the whole time.

If I knew of another product, organic, with the same efficacy I would suggest that. Several people have relayed to me of their successes using hot water dips or drenches, and several have relayed to me their failures. The issue seems to be with temps and length of time the hot water is in contact with roots.

But like I said before, if those plants are infested with RAs they look awfully good.
 
thank you again, SeaMaiden

well, they indeed are doing pretty fine so far
the one that had severe problems earlier in veg is a little behind, but so far the buds are ever growing and look super sticky (=full of crystals)

I looked into it and it turns out that Spectracide isn't sold over here, in fact any other insecticide with the same agent are exclusively sold to proper farmers (and only in units that would provide me with insecticide for the next 10.000 grows)

I'll try and nurse them though it. I dug around in the dirt a little, and here and there little dirty-white creatures scurry around, but not as bad as I've seen in other grows (and plants). here's hoping for the best.

I may have some PH issues again (too low, minor lockouts occur) but I'm gonna fix that asap (next watering = tomorrow).

schedule-wise the ladies should be ready for the chop early August, but seeing how the smaller one is a little behind, I might just take down what's ready and give the rest as much time as it wants or needs.

btw I'm cultivating a little bonsai mom now, so I can take cuts whenever I want to "make more". gotta say the seed selling homepage wasn't lying when they said "grow difficulty: moderate". it's really somewhat harder than the bagseed I used to grow, but once you get the hang of it, it's manageable

guess I'll have my next run in winter ...

edit: @HydroSoil I see what I can do. there was s lot of stuff in the papers, and people had to get themselves checked to see whether they had lead poisoning or not ... it wasn't very pleasent, I can tell you that (got myself checked, came out clean)
 
dayum! how is that even possible?!

I just checked the runoff of both plants and guess what: even tho they got the same treatment (soil, food, water-wise) one came off way too high (7.1) and the other one way too low (5.8)

I watered them with PHed food / water solution (each lowered / raised to compensate the off scale a little) until the runoff was 6.5 in both. that's good, right? if the runoff is a good PH, the soil should have a good PH range or be close enough?

I had yellowing in the low PH plant (N lockout?) and curly leaves / brownish spots in the too high PH plant. I hope they get better O__O

but again: how is that possible? how can two pots of soil develop into different directions using the same input?

*baffled*

Hans
 
here's what I'm talking about
plant 1 has is canooing the leaves / having what looks like the example picture of PH-related lockouts in the sticky guide above, and plant 2 is turning yellow on me :(

anything I can do besides giving them PHed water?

can't wait to look inside the tent tonight, I hope for the best ... they're not ready yet, 1 needs at least 1 or 2 more weeks, 2 even more (they just entered their 7th week of flowering)

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