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Old 01-14-2016, 09:20 AM #21
rykus
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K guys one thing I was thinking about addressing I my thread today is learning to become aware of little things that could signal problems.this is good to practice in other rooms if you see them, because it's harder to figure out signals with no history.

Anyways to start is the feel and the smell of the air when you first enter a room. Think of the feel, does the air feel dry or moist, cool or hot. Does it smell stale and sour, sweet and thick, clean and fresh. Obviously all this depends on lights on/off, size and stage of plant ect. But this first wave is often a huge key if apron entering there is a issue with health or room mechanics.
After entering before I do any work or decide on any course of action I walk through the rooms and inspect plants starting with leaves and stems I look for signs of colour or tip burn, look at how the leaves are hanging, how much of the plant can the roots support to hold up past parallel to the ground, if I see purplish tints did the rooms feel cool, did the dark rooms, other wise more likely more root related...,ph, moisture level, feed.
I then look at the dirt turn the plants feel their weight, I use the top and holes in bottom of pot to asses moisture, and for signs of greening or browning of the perlite that could indicate pathogens or toxicity of the soil.

I also use the overall look of the room to judge past care, if all the biggest plants are the healthiest then generally over feed over water ing even if just slight to high side... If the smallest plants consistently look the best then opposite is true, generally under feeding and or under watering would be suspect. Although other aspects could factor in, this can be a quick guide to narrow down where the little things are pilling up and starting to have a negative impact on those farthest out of ideal range, the tragic thing I see often is people catering whole rooms to the needs of the weekest plants, when often if the opposite approach was taken and we tried instead to figure out how to get the conditions of the best plant that is working to the others...

I usually like to wear just a normal long sleeve or thin jacket or hoodie and if room feels hot for you it is for plants too, if it feels cool it is going to be for them too. They do like humidity, but the air shouldn't feel heavy and muggy, there shouldn't be condensation on walls ever.

Also when inspecting the plants smell them too and look at the leaves and stems and feel them, healthy plants feel thick and fuzzy, the stems are very thick and yet strong and bendable, not woody or brittle.i usually can smell Powdery mildew days before I can see it, plants get that horrible sour smell, learn to just take the time and do a proper walk through even if your in a hurry, this is 100% the most important thing you can learn is to asses the plant, conditions and equipment efficiently and completely so there are no suprise incidents.

You also need to do this walk through to make your day plan for feeding, training, and preparing for your next day. Don't just follow a schedule and blindly think it will maximize health, it is a rough guide for general plants tapered to the safe side. To actually get maximum growth you need to be taking how ever long it takes to effectively observe as many factors as you can and base your actions on that, so roll one up and start thinking about how your plants feeling, time to have a hang out and really see!

Cheers all, and yes soon I'll stop just blathering on and posting up a couple pics... Just wanna drill home a couple theory principals first, make sure people are paying attention.
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:55 AM #22
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Very good advice. I will now make a checklist for my clipboards. Sounds way better than winging it everyday. Helps me here cuz I do have nice looking smaller plants and the big ones are lacking. Thanks for that. Great post.
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Old 01-23-2016, 09:24 AM #23
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Thank you so much for this thread. I'm Subbed for sure. You have given so much good information. I, for one could wait for pictures because i'm learning so dam much.
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Old 01-23-2016, 07:42 PM #24
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Thanks 1990rhdcrxsi, I'll take it your a car guy too!

I have pics I will be posting, and I apologize for the delay, but I have a wife and a life that dictates I need a healthy balance of low stress as well to function and thrive, and the interweb is a risk in our minds because I'm not the best at it, lol...

Anyways, I got some ideas... Had a ph issue in early weeks of flower so they set a bit later, and yielded slightly lower on average, but my best of 4 rooms did 16.5 of good and about a lbs of little stuff.... My better one I bent the branches in all the rooms right at flower set and did a mild strip.this time I did 2 rooms all the way through flower and didn't touch 2, the ones I opened up did much better over all, but had only one dominant top so the upper end of my room wan empty...

I think to really consistently push over 2/per it is essential to open those branches by bending them carefully to be parallel to the floor, let's in so much light and gets all the inside fluff to solid up, but I might bend less big branches and focus more on the side branches of those stronger ones so they push energy up to their tops to fill the top 1/3 of the room better, but definitely the sides need to be opened up by the start of heavy flower set.

I also apologize for my delays in updates... Learning so much right now on soil, and foods/actual mineral uptake and I have to say I am really excited to get on with increasing my soil effeciancy and lowering my actual bottle nute dependence/input.... Seems like a higher more consistent feed levels from the roots will help with pest mould issues... I seem to get 6 good weeks from my mix, but am seeing I might be running out of steam, or locking up important Ca/mg in my soil through excess in P and K...

Thanks ICmag, gotta say with a little common sense and a strong patience for ego and filter for BS this place is a virtual gold mine of knowlage.... Shame it drives off some really smart folks, but it goes to show also that passion can lead to disillusion or frustration at an unhealthy level.

Stay healthy my friends and enjoy your abilities to nurture the world around you.

Oh yeah just for the curious, lowest room cut at 65 days got 12.5 with 1.5 smalls, 69 13 2.5 smalls(bent open room). 73 13 and 1 the big room went a full 11weeks! Plants were all reefs pink kush which is apparently the old purple king kush x with an old BC hash plant
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Old 01-23-2016, 11:52 PM #25
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Good to see your still around, congrats on your recent pulls. Thanks for the tip on seed germ, 100% rate! I did roughly 2 tbs hydro peroxide per gal H2O, soaked till cracked which was under 24 hrs. Then placed in solo cups with seedling mix, the kind with perlite. Watering only when cups are real light with water bottle that has small hole punched in lid. Awesome! Thanks again.
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:46 PM #26
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Hey hope you're well. Are you running fans under the lights pointed towards ceiling? I know you said that you don't like much fan in room. Didn't know if that would help with the burn or not on the next run. Current run has a tatoo all the way around plants at light level. Filling in to the point that unable to keep from burning a few leaves and shoots. Should smaller plants go between the lights and larger on the outside?

--x----x--
x-O-x-O-x
--x----x--
x-O-x-O-x
--x----x--

x=plant O=1kw light
Also fwiw I sourced -3/8" white pumice at $40 per yard for outdoor mix. Hoping to sub that for the perlite. Haven't seen it yet but only weighs 500-700 lbs per yard. That's likely got some water weight to it as they keep it outside. I've never ran that before didn't know if you or anyone else here had. If this is too off topic let me know and I'll delete it.

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Old 02-02-2016, 08:44 PM #27
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Doing very well, thank you my friend! Up late or ya getting an early start today?

In the past we used a lot of fans, the room was designed originally to have a "turbo air" fan in each corner blowing directly upward,with the out take for the room right in the centre of the ceiling.they. Called it a Venturi effect and it did have good air movement, they. Also put a wall fan on each end wall blowing straight down the rows of lights.

I have also used fans directly under each light, it will help but there is a balance because excesss air movement will also burn the leaves through dehydration.keeping humidity proper for temps will help and proper air flow without direct wind stress will provide optimal growth and more heat/light resistance.

In the end for me I prefer a higher rate of exchange on the cubic feet of air in my room, and to use the extra space where fans could go to maneuver my plants for max light and space. If your getting a bit of burn as the plants age and get less resistant to the heat just try and push them back a little more, bend the branches that are burning up into the plant or down below the light( past day 35 or 40 I would feel the branches might be more prone to breaking from extreme bending so use a bit of feel, might be better to tuck in and try and get light through defoliating or bending other branches) also I will keep a 3-4' stake in each plant around the lights and move it on the turn to hold buds out of burn zone.

I would usually recommend putting the biggest plants in the middle just because they get the most light so usually best to use the densest plant with most sites for flowers as they will get better light saturation for twice the amount of days as wall plants, and secondly in early flower the increase of light will prohibit stretch, so I usually stick my tall girls in the big light spots.

One more thing I've been thinking of touching on is one of the least an actual gardening skill per say, but the most important skill IMO when dealing with nature, and that is a. Being able to have a good plan and fallow it too a good effect for efficiency of your time and money,and the plants health and well being. The b. On this is the big one though.... That's being able to run the plan that you've been putting together while real life is happening and changing the way your plan is interacting with real life as it progresses..... And this is paramount, doing the right thing when the plan you want to work isn't actually going to be the best plan any more....


I know it sucks, we all want to be masters of our destiny, but even if we take control over all aspects like clones, having supplies ready in storage, having extra time to finish properly, enough workers or time to follow schedules ectect on and on...

My last 4 months was case and point, in the summer one of my old workers was running the baby factory for a friend I have worked with for ever... He dropped the ball , got fired, my "for sure "clones where no where to be seen... So instead of filling a place every month mine tightened up and one got a moth out of whack....

I got my cuts in two batches.... The first 200 and a second 200... The first 200 where a few days into flower when cut, so even though they looked fine they started slow then exploded with no dominant top almost a month later.... Doh, so the first clones I filled the one that was behind but they lagged so I also luckily planted enough from the second batch is got 2 weeks later.... Ended up taking all the first batch to third place they took so longs to take off, so all said and done my one place was a few weeks behind, other was almost two months behind, and third worked out perfect by default... So then I decided fuck those guys, I'm going to start from seed, gave myself 8 weeks to start from germ. To sex then TP, but my flower cycle went 11 weeks and I couldn't get dirt over Christmas and the temps dropped below freezing witch affected my veg spot and I got humidity issues, because the plants where over grown they lost a lot of nice shoots to rot from the high humidity and being to tightly spaced....

I could have just given up on them, but I needed to be smart and make it work fast to stay near my timings... So I planted from 2-15 gal... Gave em 2 days, then took a 3' garden stake and broke every plant at 3 ft, just snapped the main stem but didn't cut it so the plant wouldn't stress or loose capillary action in the big stem. This takes energy away from the tops and pushes out side growth. I also kept my lights low, instead of vegging with them at top of the room like with smaller starts.
After 8 days of turning and nice conditions the sides where looking good and filling in but a lot of branches where long and lanky and the plants where still empty looking for only having 21 per 8 lights as opposed to my 96 I'm allowed (98 plant lic) at 24 per 8 light room.
So basically as well as my usual bending branches down, I also cut them so they had 4 -8 growth spots but no dominant end and much shorter/stronger, then I cut off the tops I had. Broke over and used them for cuts. I had one really bad plant that only had 4 or so branches below the 3 ft mark where I had bent it, and was almost six ft tall so I literally bent the top right in down so thewholeplant was bent in half and wrapped it around the stem... Insta bush!

But yeah, I guess what I'm saying is we all love plans and tight run ops with ideal situations, but what separates a real farmer from a guy making a plan on line and trying to force fit it to real life is this ability to stop and re asses! Every time you see the plants should be a balance of following a well thought out plan with reading the plants and the rooms and any other potential influences,and making a new plan that works within the perameters of what's actually happening.

I guess what I'm saying is just because a piece of paper says feed this now, strip these then, cut that now and on and on, your going to have to build a trust of your sense of right and wrong, productive vs couter productive, intuitive observation!

Another thing I was thinking about bringing up was the ugly....

Basically as humans we have some very interesting reactions to things we think are less than ideal, these probably evolved as a survival thing to avoid dirt and mould, or sick looking plants and animals....

But it's true! And the quicker you figure out how that is a trap for you or a can be used as an asset,,

I've some people won't take care of a room as well if. It looks off, so I this case even though I believe defoliating is harmful to plants in excess, a grower who doesn't want to be in the room is worse, so I would pull all the damaged leaf and try and shift the way the Gardner saw his plants, they will thrive way faster.

Same with mess, some people as soon as one leaf is on the floor just start leaving crap everywhere, if that is you, then as it gets worse less time is spent being productive and more with dealing with environment then you will quickly get beat down and defeated, or want to spend less time in there being appreciative and positive doing little things to do more.

Some people hold sick plants and spend massive amounts of time and energy saving one at the expense of many. Others always are starting fresh, throwing out whole systems and trying to start over but never keeping a base system or learning the failings of the last one...

To be an efficient farmer you need to be able to realistically asses many small details through your daily observations and make quick decisions, also if you sense a turn coming try and be prepared for the worst and best cases..... And biggest of all, try and keep some friends in the game... Safety of annonimity is a true gem and not to be taken lightly either, but when any of the bad is rolling through its really good to have a few #'s you know you can call in a bind! I like to have seeds on hand too, because you never actually know!

Anyways hope you all are doing well, my rambling here are done for today, but I will be back next week for another.. Chopped the tops of a 3 room flip that I am testing, clones are behind and had some rot so just did tops and going to let the bottoms fill in for a few weeks, but should be good, only 12 600w with 90 plants and 36 bulbs

And you guys should see the dump I just took over a few months back, lol. I'm going to post up some pics of that one too just because people blaming their shows.... No heat so I had to vent room to room, because freezing, bare wood walls, plants are pot too pot because we're still finishing two rooms and life keeps chucking my schedule under the bus,lol looking pretty good though for some buddy clone, over vegged hack job! The rebuild will be the fun part! And I will seriously do a pic day soon, time just keeps slipping away!

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Old 02-03-2016, 02:54 PM #28
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Late nights, chop. So your running 600w now instead of 1k? I see it's a test room. Will be very interested in hearing how that one turns out.
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Old 02-03-2016, 07:02 PM #29
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Quick answer on the 1k/600w , yes I have 1 place testing 600's, and also the first 3 room flip... It is 10x20 rooms and always to hot and tight for the 1k, never pushed past 1.5 per 1000 because to small floor space, so added a third room, but still too hot and tight even for 4 hrs of full light.... Went 600's but not sure it's quite enough so going too do 4 600's and 2 1000's on each power timer(2) then each room will get 2 100's and 4 600's for4 hrs then all lights for 4 hrs then other set of 2 1000's and 4 600's to fill the 12 hrs on cycle. The thousands will be the second bulb in on each end to supplement the end of the row with 600 off... If that makes sense
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Old 02-03-2016, 07:22 PM #30
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Very very nice. I will look forward to more.
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