Do wrong right

Hey guys, long time apprentice to this fine plant and many folks along my journey with this path .... Coming up on my 24th year growing and now with legal and social shifts I decided to come out of the under ground scene and join the push for legitimate future keeping these plants out of corporate hands.

I joined this forum for a few reasons, the first being to glean a little knowledge from the collective mind and rework a few aspects of my system to improve yield and health, and reduce costs and lower my contributions to companies that make a living over pricing foods and equipment for us, I feel this will be a huge a block for us against corporate mj industry.

Second is I would like to share some of my knowlage through growing up in a thriving but structured underground illegal pot industry, and apprenticing and operating through the ups and downs of the 90's till now in all the aspects I can remember. This is where some of the Internet facts on mj seem out of line with some of the foundations of my learning.

Thirdly and most importantly to me so it could be a while in the making, and I will have to do it slowly and carefully, is I would like to keep myself employed in the ever changing cannabis scene by starting some small companies to help independent growers produce the most highest quality smoke with the least impact on themselves and the environment. Cause I guess I'm an old anti corperate hippy like that..


Going to fallow Stoney's lead and just ramble for a bit on some of my past/influences and some of my techniques to get the party started, then I'll throw up some pics once enough people get sufficiently agitated and convinced I'm wrong... Because reading through here I'm thinking there might be some of that...

K so I'll start out posting up a quaint little 32 bulber, it has been nice place and is the most consistent I have seen so good basis for this thread, I admittedly maxed out at 2.1 per with my old system with the local pink kush clones, so changing out and this will be my first run with my strains and some new tech from the forums, I will be looking to get up over 2.5 this year and document it here for any looking for an easy system.

Place is 4 8 light rooms with in a single lung room, 2 3 ton ac's, basically a 10x48 work space and 4 12x18 rooms dropped cielings with dropped angles so 8 foot flat spot, then a 2 foot angle on the edges, makes the whole ceiling a giant reflector, bare bulbs, about 6'6" ... Those old school guys from OG might remember the BC bud to the max thread. That was same room design but hydro n less plants, mine are 15g of organic soil mix(I'll get into that) 24 plants a room gives me 96 total, coming in right under my 98 plant licence.. So the math is 8 ounces a plant will get me 1.5 and if I could get 1 lbs per then I would get 3 per.... That's is the long term goal I feel I could achieve with a little help on soil and feed, and some work with my strain, because that's going to be the exciting part! Bringing back the 2 lbs hash plants from prohibition era BC genes into some different flavours. I am also going to try and do some breeding for an extract guy I met a while back for some crazy flavours and smells.

I do feed my plants as well, as I have always been taught that elevating feed and co2 levels accelerates growth and with proper conditions plants are almost completely resistant to mould and pests. In fact to go one step farther I would say 90% of growers are creating toxic environments with ph up/down, flushing and toxic quick fixes to problems with deeper roots(literally). This expensive toxic way of growing is promoted by the mj industry and fuels commercial growing in BC in a bad way, and often when I am asked to consult the problem has been compounded so bad the plant is unable to resist any pest and the soil is unable to support stable life promoting environment.

Once healthy roots and soil are thriving they will quickly consume quallity refined mineral salt based feeds in a healthy manner, this acts as a immediate and very easy to manipulate tool to deliver and adjust the nutrients the plant sees at the roots. Used right this will produce a plant that will out grow and yield a sterile full chemical program, and is slightly more tune able for a hack like me to get the most from my plants with out access to soil testing. I am very excited to learn more here about soil and I feel that that is an area I am going to learn a lot here and get over the 2.5 mark and maybe on to 3!

Another area I am excited to learn about is making my own feeds and teas. So welcome to my thread, and although much of what I say may sound wrong to many here, bear with me and I'll post up pics from my last kush run and start documenting my seed run that I will be doing.

Cheers

Guess first I'll talk about soil as that is one of the few things that interact so closely with the plant and is the basis for so many problems that lead to grower frustration. It is amazing to me the basic principals are so lost in the chaos of theory that floats around as fact.

First is flushing.... There is no point that running straight water through your medium is a "good move" . In hydro the plant sees the optimal temp/nutrient ec/ph/dissolved oxygen ratio ideally 100% of the time for max growth, this can be instantly fine tuned, but any big shifts cause stress....

Now apply this to soil, why would you want to go from dry high ec to over saturated low ec... Not good.. The only real flush that I could see is in extreme cases to run a medium ec medium ph to stabilize the soil if you didn't know what was going on.
This is especially true in small containers of peat based mediums that rely on lime to correct ph, over watering or flushing leaches the lime out making for a very unstable medium.also you ever notice how it's harder to adjust ph in higher ec, same is true in soil if you manage to actually lower the ec of the soil it will become much more susceptible to ph swings resulting in lock out. If you are having issues and suspect soil problems the best idea is to repeatedly feed about 1.5-2 ec and 6.2-6.5 ph of appropriate feed, and foliar for any suspected deficiencies... IMO any ways flushing when the plant is already stressed leads to over saturated medium and horrible conditions for plant recovery.air helps manage pathogens in soil and roots uptake more in proper air/moisture ratios.

I use 1 bale pro mix hp, 2 110l perlite, 3 50l coco, 3 bags mushroom manure, 3 20l of worm castings and 2 bags sea soil. I add 3l of organic bloom mix like Gia earth or flower power and 2 litres of pyro clay.this fills 17 15 gal pots with a 2 gal start.

Would like to try using some additives and mixes I'm reading about here and trying to apply high Brix and better cal/phos mix but this is what I've been doing so there it is, high drain high feed soil that is really light and airy and almost impossible for workers to over saturate. Saves a ton of food cost too.

I try and use hydro as my base line, an old grower once told me if my plants don't drink by the second day I need to add a day to flower... But really what it comes down to is the plant ideally wants to see at all times a perfect mix of air to water, with proper ph and lots of readily available food from multiple sources.... The more often you water in smaller amounts is bringing you closer in the air/water department, and I feel to hit 3 per I will need to be using a timer to feed a smaller bit every day right before lights on( rooms that are heavy saturated repeatedly before lights off do worse with other conditions ideal, common in unmanned flip shows) then hand topping up to even out the heavy feeders.

Welcome rykus. I'm happy to be the first to follow

Next is room conditions, and although I feel a lot of people are closer to on track in this department I also see a high cost factor with some failings too....

I like to use lung rooms, they seem to be way more safe and consistent, I recommend in any sealed grow to invest in high temp shut offs. But basics are easy to maintain in a larger cubic feet of air space, then this air can be pulled at a high rate of exchange through the smaller cubic ft of grow space.... No fans in the rooms, direct air flow strips water from the plant and adds stress...


Now the big one... I feel that using co2 is beneficial as a pest and mould management.. IMO plants developed or evolved depending on your views in a much higher moisture and co2 rich environment.... This lead to high growth and in turn high production of rich soil and whoala... Huge mother f'n pre historic super plants.... Now the next time yo feed just try upping the ec... Till you see burn... If your in hydro you can actually see plant immediately wilt a bit as when the ec of the water exceeds the ec of the plant it will actually reverse its capillary action and lose water to the res! Getting off topic but if you usually feed at 2 ec your plant will adjust its metabolism to operate at 2 ec and will become stressed at any change to regularity of feed and water.... So going to 3 ec will likely burn a bit.... But if you put your co2 up proportionately it will thrive! This is why these side by side tests often fail, a plant fed at only 2 ec will not thrive in elevated co2, just as a weight lifter will not thrive on the diet of a long distance runner or at the oxygen level of mountain climbers... They trained their body to operate to an extreme using diet and stimulation to achieve desired results.... Same for mj plants, they can be pushed to extremes of yield, flavour ,smell, potency colour ect. All factored by nutrients and environment.

Anyways if you work with the plant and use common sense you will find many strains will become super plants, and once healthy roots are established through a high. Feeding medium, the ec levels the plants adapt to go from a stress to a welcome buffet for hungry plants, and if you can match feeds to co2 in ideal conditions limits of plant growth and resistance are expanded so instead of wasting time and money trying to fix problems you get to instead try to keep up on maintaining ideal conditions... Which is ultimately your job as a plant tender.

I'll follow along.

Thanks McKush! Glad to have you along and hopefully some of my ramblings will have a positive affect on your plant/tender relationship..... This is the biggest challenge of being a successful plant tender is to manage to put the human first drama on the back burner and learn to be a supportive nurturer of plants,lol, call me a hippy but you will be rewarded! The plant has very simple needs and the biggest want/need of any plant is consistency, and if at every meeting you find faults and panic with extreme measures you plant will not trust you and protect itself by consuming less and growing less as to ensure its survival in your whim based environment the plant is trying to exist in....

To go back to the weight lifter thing, think back to the British TV show where they find an extreme obese person and a anorexic person and make them co exist... That's the panic a high feeding plant feels in a flush... Even in my soil mix by day 21 of flower if I do 2 feeds under 1 ec I will notice a loss of colour... To me that means my soil is still supporting the plant but the plant is also drawing on reserves... So even a few low ec waters is affecting the plant...I usually just add organic food like earth juice and Alaska fish to adjust ph down to 6 so about 1 ec, also feeds with alfalfa and humic said help build up soil for higher feeds later.

I like to pre veg in 2 gals for 10-15 days, never root bound if I can avoid for max health and growth, I will clean out insides a tiny bit but no real stripping or stress added, just easy fast growth... High humidity is bonus too. Then into the big pot, 10-15 days to establish then flower.... I find using this fast easy growth with low or no stress plant size is more determined by genetics, I avoid excessively bushy strains or ones that grow fluffy buds without direct light..... They are too much work IMO... And most plant work is adding a form of stress that can affect yield/structure.
Around day ten of flower and max 25 in the big pot, the plant will start to be able to handle more feed and co2, this is when I will add in instead of slower organic feeds and soil building enzymes and humates, I will add faster acting refined mineral salt based foods. I usually just use a basic one part bloom feed like super natural bloom, and like to have a no N bloom boost like 0-50-30 or such to ensure lots of phosphorus in the heavy bloom phase. I also up my co2 to a avoid insects as the plants lose resistance when they focus more energy into the bloom production, and b to avoid stress of over feed in this crucial time.... I was feeding about 3.5 ec or 1750 ppm and 6.3 ph and getting run out of 6 ec 3000ppm and 6.4 ph.... No burn, but this did stress the plants slightly and yielded slightly less than when I had a lower run out at same time on previous run.

The biggest factors if I can say set this system apart is a the rooms are a design by a crew locally I worked for as a youth... Essentially the whole room is a giant shade, by eliminating the corners you reflect way more light from the vertically hung bulbs back down on the top and back of the plant, also the small cu/f give superior air exchange and even more light reflection.

I further use this by establishing a system of low stress training and strengthening by every 2 days when I do my visit I turn every plant 1/4 turn and fluff the branches by gently untangling them after they are all turned and lightly bending all the branches that are on the bulb side of the plant parallel with the floor..... This strengthens the branches by lightly breaking the joints with the main stem which develops to be very strong and will support way more weight with no tying( I don't tie either) it also lets the light straight into the middle of the plant so instead of paying people to come and remove all those buds at a great stress to the plant, instead you provide them light and they develop to more viable sites... So less work, more production, less stress.....after day 21 or so I focus less on main branches and instead pull spindly ones shooting up the middle out to the light, and bend down secondary branches instead to be 90* from their side main stems, you'll be supriesed how much light this lets in with zero material removed... And some of the defoliating I see here, wow...


Leaves are solar panels that not only turn light into plant energy but store nutrition water and also convert co2... All essential to high yield... Either manipulate the plant to get light to but sites or mathematically remove bud sites but keep leaf... Leaf is power for plants, pretty common sense, only time I recommend defoliating is to remove bugs.... But that is indicative of a deeper problem IMO so maybe just better starting over unless far into bloom...

Anyways by turning the plants you are getting full light to the plants 15/60 days to each side, if you flip 180* you get 2 hallow sides so 90 is better.. By bending and training branches instead of striping you get more light to more buds with lower stress... Basic stuff but huge increase in health and in turn yield with faster growth and this compounds in a year time...

Let's say your fighting problems and working with root bound plants bugs ect, your time between crops can be longer, yields lower, expenses higher because of quick fix solutions like bug sprays ect, and lower yields which often cost more to process take more time to process and get lower prices at market... There is the vicious loop

I have a friend that Vegs in 3 gal for 6 weeks, then his 9 week bloom, then drys in the room so lucky to get cycled in 13 weeks even with 3 weeks pre veg. And bills are same every month... So if he gets 1.5 lbs per still less crops a year and increase expense and hassle let alone a 1 or less could cost money!

Healthy plants cost less yeild more and are a joy to maintain and process... Sickly plants will be a constant stress and require more work to produce less... And that's not even factoring in the health factors of smoking plants that have been repeatedly doused in poison and grown in less than ideal situations.

subbed

Now this bring us to the point in the "theoretical grow" where we get to the day 45-56 depending on strain.... All my previous statements are retracted(except about ignoring common sense or using toxic poisons) this phase of growth is about using environment and stress to force the plant to finish and pump out every bit of stored energy in the form of smelly oils,crystals and colours!

Basically first step is even earlier day 40-50 you start to lower feeds, as the plant starts to age it will become less resistant to heat,light and food... So food and co2 can start to come down slowly and plants can be feed more so they stay a bit damper...then all the leaves with visible stem should be removed... This stresses the ever lovin shit out of the plant and takes away all the reserves it built up in its relaxed comfort....wha ha ha... Also make flush easier, but don't flush to much just take the nitrogen out so the shit burns nice... As I said 1 ec is a flush, if you break a branch it usually burns great, day 45 2000 ppm no problem, same plant flushed to excess will not burn well at all! Just enough

But yeah, taking off all the leaves also gets even light to all the buds, so the smaller nugs that only get light every 8th day (1/4 turn a day every 2 days) get steady light for 2 weeks and get a better colour so instead of lime green inner dark outer it all looks good, and will actually fill in and weigh in... After leaves are removed the buds break off easier so I don't always turn as often if they're huge, specially the middle row of plants as the wall plants get more space because I kind of wrap the wall rows at the ends to full surround the bulbs for extra space and weight!

In this final ripening phase you need to keep in mind that medicinal plants have been proven to have higher medicinal value when grown under stressful environment, while this is unpractical for commercial growers it is a tool to force finish and improve quality in the final weeks. I like to use temperature of the air/water and ph/ saturation levels to bring out colour and flavour and oils and aroma... Pretty basic but still often overlooked aspect of growing quality herbs while maintaining that low cost, no compromise overview of growing in general.

Once all this is said and done, again I can't say how common it is to see growers put in all this work just to trash their product in the final steps.... Straight up handling the plant at all wet is degrading and damaging the final product.... Hang the plants in a low but present wind room about 65* and 65% humidity for 6-10 days then buck them down and store them in totes or bags with the leaves on for another 5-10 days and trim dry... Essentially to smell and look IMO... Why put out all that time and money only to throw you medicine around in a mad panic like it's garbage on the way to the side of the street... I've literally seen people throwing around dry product in bags just destroying the look and creating waste... Too wet and will take forever to process and will clump and loose smell, too dry and will crumble and loose weight and bag appeal.... I like to have stems just a tad green, but leaves crumble... Buds should make slight noise when pinched and resume shape, not crumble or stay compressed.

I got a bunch of pics of my last run, but might take me a bit to figure out a way I feel comfortable posting so feel free to discuss... I will answer anything I feel confident about, and would appreciate any input about feed and soil. I'm here to learn and push my personal best too!

Some product I do use and like, although I will be much happier when I learn to make my own are....

Earth juice... Good stuff, drops ph and has different sources from some other organic feeds so good for mixing. I like to use less of a few feeds that lots of 1 for a wider variety of organic matter...
I hate to admit I like these products because the company is a joke here in BC but they do work... Damnit... But advanced bud ignitor is awesome for a bit of ec bump in early flower and seems to promote huge and healthy development in the transition phase of growth.
I also use their overdrive as it seems to be a nice finisher that doesn't affect burn and can be fed right till chop, seems like they like it and finish beautifully... Not essential though...

I did use a lot of voodoo too, but when prices dropped that was first to go and yields are same.... Roots don't look quite as good at TP...

I use to use lots of GH organic line but fuck Monsanto! Still the flora blend is killer and I will miss it and that is going to be the start of my alfalfa tea mission, so in the end a bonus in my knowlage that GH is off my list.

I use green planet massive and Zyme, but the Aussie version is monsta bud and Zyme liquid... Massive is essential IMO and makes some damn frosty smoke! That and overdrive is my go too for a nice end feed, just massive and od is about 1 ec and low nitrogen..

Like canna labs potassium silicate as it is a gel so low usage... Gotta add a lot to keep ph up in mid flower... In my medium I do 6 6.2 till about day 21 flower then up it a bit to compensate for feeds... So feed at 6.3-6.5 and water(usually an enzyme or cal/mg) at closer to 7... If I use the watery stuff I can use up to 4 litres in a 60 gal res in heavy feed.... I add first and should end up ph 9-10 then add feeds, any micros I add last as the high ph heavy P will kill calcium and other micro nutes.... Also why I do my cal/mg with just water not mixed with heavy feed...

I like a cal/mg too as stated... Basically I never water... Just add in my delicate or dedicated feeds like cal/mg, enzymes, sugars or other things my high feed could affect, also when I'm feeding really high in day 21-45 range gotta be careful when you feel and enzyme... Best to feed after a bigger water when the soil has a bit of moisture so the strong feed doesn't hit dry roots, also have to be careful not to let the soil dry out to much after heavy feed as if the plant uses more water than feed the ec of the soil goes up... By the same token, if your soil has a high ec, best to do a light feed to lower the ec before adding enzymes because this can make too much available to the plant causing stress.... Always be watching the leaves for signs and fallow your gut...

That's pretty well it I guess, except sugars, I use sweet by botanic are for later flower with the chem feeds, and molasses based sugars any other time to help feed enzymes and soil.

I also used vegimatrix food and really liked the different sources again but also very ph neutral so great for keeping mix a bit higher in ph with out using so much silicate, humic acid is also a ph up in some brands.my local store doesn't like the company though so I'm looking at others too.

Used a tea product called benofox I liked too but is pretty spendy, as is growth plus, the old stand by foliar sea weed product!

Again a problem I see a ton when consulting on others grows is once again a feel/common sense issue...that is watering... And as I mentioned you need to use hydro as a baseline for ideal environment....if the air/water goes off not only will the plant temporarily be shut down by sub par conditions, you will also be creating a negative imprint on the plant as I mentioned where it might adapt by limiting potential, or worse yet if it for extended time frame your giving pathogens and nutrient un availability a chance to have serious and often un recoverable long term affect! Easy to see early signers are pale green, steaks of light purple or pink, and in extreme cases yellowing and visible change of colour of perlite in soil.... Should stay nice and white, not brown or green...

If your planting a clone with 4 freakin leaves don't give it a gallon of water! Only enough for 2 days max or your cheating yourself and your plant of hours or days of potential growth that can never be taken back... Same with flower, 1 day the plant sitting idle is 1/63 of your yeild gone, 1/63 of your potential! When you start thinking hey if I loose 1 gram off 96 plants that is almost a qp! You can see those big numbers slipping away with every mis step, so learn to use the carpenter Moro of easier to add more than take away!

I use the drain holes in the bottom and the soil surface as my indicators but even before that some common sense math is needing to be applied... If you have a 3 gal pot full of medium and add 1 gal of water what is your air holding potential... Not good I can assure you! And if the plant is only drinking a few ml a day then it could be a week for a clone to drink that... In that week because the soil is saturated you can't adjust ph or ec so if the soil goes off you are done before you begin! In my 15 gals with the mix I have I can only add about 2-3 gal off water before run off, this helps avoid potential saturation, but still see better yields when I keep my plant in ideal range of 1-2 gal every 2 days and only adding more to keep soil damper for a big feed.
If you accidentally over water when they are little you will need to compensate by foliar feeding the plants to maintain health, and using temps and air flow even humidity to speed drying and avoid pathogens... But for any problem look for the common sense solution, avoid any quick fix that goes against plant health. I know I keep saying this but I can't count the amount of times a plant showed deficiencies from over watering and the grower tried to fix them by "flushing"or cold root zone ... Shit kills me, and even worse is that almost every time they want to be told a quick fix not that they are problem.

Getting off on a tangent again, I might do that, and thanks Riekox and Boyd crowder for jumpin in too. Anyways ya use the holes and math to set your watering schedular, also if you turn the plants while your watering you can adjust the second could per plant by the weight of the pot, but that gets harder when there is 10lbs of wet plant matter hangin out up top,lol.

If I am watering I want none of the plants to look visibly damp on the surface! That is seriously a bad sign for that plant and great care should be taken.... When I was running a big warehouse with almost 1200 plants and 18 21 light rooms I use to use flags to mark wet plants and only I watered ever... Most important part of the job is just getting this down and being as consistent as possible....

After I've determined all plants are drinking and happy I look in the bottom windows of the pots, at the very out sides I'd say ideally I'd like to see 15% damp or wet looking in the holes, and equally important a max of 15% dry and very light looking.... I never want to see the sides pull away from the pot either! Serious root damage happens if the roots dry out all the way... It takes almost a week for healthy roots to die in wet under oxygenated conditions, but the same damage can happen in hours in dry hot arid environment.... Just less common a problem when consulting,lol, just usually hear the stories of full on failure....

Ideally 70% of your pots are ideal and drinking fairly consistently, then you can play with in this range for maximum effect. Like I mentioned in a ideal week I would feed at say 1750ppm or 3.5 ec, the soil would be a little on the damper side when I fed that so maybe I'd be adding 2 gal of feed after a 3 gal water last time.... If I come back next Time and plants where a bit less than stoked I might have to just add 1 gal of 1-2ec cal/mg or 0-50-30 depending on week look ect... Just to even out the ec/moisture/ph in the soil.... Then do enzyme at 1-2 gal depending if they pick up or keep doddling... On the other end I might hit with the 3.5 ec and they might hit it hard and soil will be on drier end of spectrum, in that case I would look for any sign of burn from ec swinging up as soil dried, if all good I would do the enzyme and cal/mg or 0-50-30 together at 3 gal then feed again at 3.5 ec at 2 and repeat as often as plant will take....

Really it's just mostly common sense but also learning to just maximize every opportunity to feed and adjust that ph/saturation/ec levels to your advantage, if you mis interpret you loose x amount of days or opportunity to keep ideal conditions. That is why watering every day even would be way superior to every third day, 3 times the opportunity to adjust that to ideal range, and less than half the time out of range that could damage vital plant functions or incubate harmful pathogens. The every second day for me is geography logistics lol and like I said I believe one of the biggest steps I will take this year in my quest to beat 2.5 per is a watering system!

Following along as well.

I have functioned in many instances and capacities in the industry here, and unfortunately at great expense and personal stress load I have realized I am a much better at interacting and reading plants than humans and as a result am not the best employer or manager of human kind...so in the past few years I have turned my attention from developing an easy cheap system I could use to help people who have little interest in helping themselves to get into a profitable home based business.... Stress full for a dirt worshiping heathen of my ilk, so instead I have moved towards a solitary existence, and as it became just maximizing environment and growth to reduce work load and eliminate the need for expensive and offensive help that is often a liability and vacuume of personal problems(employing the unemployable since 1998,lol)

This theory has worked out better than I even imagined and has been the best move I've personally made in years of stagnant industrialization of a plant I love, and using genetics and soil knowlage I feel I will soon be able to utilize a no till no strip(except final)no tie no spray program where I show up and mix my automated feeder and turn plants! The extra time and energy I am saving by not constantly fighting the uphill battle of toxic sprays and stressful plant work to deal with problems created by sub par conditions I use to clean and optimize my space and actually do little things I previously was "to busy to get too" that I'm finding just exponentially make the plants happier and easier to work with and my time more enjoyable and productive at the space as well.

Serious exponential win win we are talking about folks, and just a healthier lower stress life for you and the plants, avoiding heavy work and toxic compounds that stress and reduce yeild and resistance of plants will also eventually reduce the strength and resistance of their human care takers as well...

Well now that I've out and out said it, fuck workers and bosses and anyone that cares more about lookin like the man than acting like one, lol....

Fuck the grow store bullshit too, excuse my French, those pre made flip boards are over priced fire starters you'd be best to avoid, and while I can see advantage of adjustable ballasts, most of the other bs is just crap your going to swap every three years or less when it fails or the next best thing comes your way.... He'll even those digital ballasts have been more $ than they make with adjustable light feature... Most hate flips and die before a couple years.

Sauna tube flows better and lasts longer than shitty flex duct, white paint kills panda, and any farm supply or commercial pond/farm/garden/electrical place will know more and have cheaper better suff

Learn some basics if your on a budget, look at pics and start buying and learning parts, I built this whole show at 27 with used 70% used gear and all myself with my at the time employee who later ran it for the first 3 years. Like I said about 5$ in osb sheeting saved 800$ + per room on shades and bs, I run hortilux bulbs and only replace when they start to fail(turn on/off) usually about 3 years per bulb but some are duds... Some go longer... No yeild loss

Build your own flips using the big 40amp units and you can use 1 for 2 ballasts... Just flip the hot. Way safer than the piddley piece of shit ice cube relays the pre made units use... I looked in one that caught on fire and it is running your power from your ignitor through like a 22awg wire! No wonder the lights don't light on long runs and they burn!

The guys I worked for used a metal rack and hang the magnetic ballasts from using heavy wire, this is very fire safe and quieter than if they are solid mounted. They put concrete board behind that to mount the ignitor and capacitor on then wire run through holes drilled to flips mounted either on the fire board as well if you broke ass, or in proper metal boxes from electric supply... I did a thread on it here but if you use 2 timers for flip and set one too 6-6 and other too 12-12 then both rooms will get 18 hrs light and if wired right bulbs cover whole room nice, look it up for more info or pm me.

I like being able to turn my ballasts on and off if I want, and the high temp shut offs are nice luxury that can save sleep and many thousands of $, so I like to run from breaker too on/off contacter. You can use inter attic timer too but have had em melt from high temps high load.
But yeah that's it for me.
Breaker-contacter-ballasts-relays-sockets, with some research and planning you'll have the best most versatile flip you can imagine for under 500 for 1 ballast 2 bulbs... Well a bit more if ya get the good copper core ballast with 75ft ignitor said and hortilux bulbs but you know what I mean... I got 32 bulbs up and flipping for nest to nothing and focused on AC and environment with the extra $, using the lung room and passive intakes I managed to buy 8 exhaust fans 2 ac's and 1 burner/controller for co2 one big pimper dehum and I'm good to go, instead of 4 ac's and 4 burners ect ect.... Gotta be smarter than the sales guy at the grow store, or they'll be rich and you'll be frustrated.... Wall fans take up space weed could be, just about everything else is irrelevant unless your in dry dry or wet wet climate.

The object is is to surround as much sq/ft of light with plant matter in ideal conditions... Shades only allow a 2-d grow surface and magnify heat and harmful light back on the plants in an unstable way... Not saying you can't use em, but they cost $ and lower the usable space in the grow room forcing higher plant count to get weight, sure it will look killer, but work load and plant count, clones ect ect and you have less margins for error... Although the short cycle is also an advantage IMO.

The bare bulbs with a angled ceiling will let you fill a huge 3-d area with plant matter and turning and optimizing the space further gets consistent size and density through out the whole space while minimizing heat stress to individual areas. And costs less and is easier to clean and maintain.
My next project is to learn AC refrigerant too, the last 2 I wired and installed all pipes and everything and all he did was solder a few repairs and fill and cost 900$ and what they made on ordering which I learned was a lot!

They think growers make too much, and talk too much.... Best learn as much as you can your self, will be way less stressful and expensive in a problem situation too which is the biggest stress and $ factor...

Hell ya I'm sub'd. This guy is a genius. He told me how to build my flip, delighted with it. Now have 8 lights 4 ballasts kicking ass. Always something to do. Love his soil mix too, fast draining, light and the plants love it. I know I'm small time but cutting my teeth on this small flip. Once dialed and using your methods Rykus I plan to expand. Saturated green state here where I live. One must find a way to rise above and stand out in the crowd or fall in with all the other sup par shit shows.

Taking notes as always, keep it coming Northern Brother. Your input is deeply appreciated.

Thanks sluicebox, been a pleasure chatting with you too!

Well I guess the first step is vegative phase... My whole thing with veg is to use your conditions to provide the growth you need, so in tighter spaces closer spacing could make a better plant... But with lower #'s it might be nicer to have a wider plant... Goal is too cover as much sites as possible, that is how the gavitas get good #'s is just covering a bigger surface with optimal light....

But above all in veg is healthy roots need to develope to support accelerated growth during stretch and pre flower phase, and build healthy reserves and immunities for later crucial weight producing days of flower when the plant won't have energy to do extra work.

My ideal is to plant a healthy clone or seed of at least 2-3 nodes height, not micro clones! But to go right into a 2 gal + pot then veg under strong light for 10-14 days. I do believe foliar feeding can be a key ingredient here for max production. And I think ideally mid way the plant should be topped once to encourage more root than leaf growth to lower stress on plant. I often see veg plants that can't hold up their leaves through a entire 18hr cycle. So plant is not optimizing conditions IMO.

Giving a topping about day 6 in 2 gal then tp'ing to 15 at day 12 the topping again 6 days in 15 gal too once again encourage explosive root growth and click into flower 6 days later when plant resume an accelerated vegative production will result in ideal growth and fill the most area or the 3-dimensional space the plant has to exist in.

Because my soil mix is decently hot, but fresh( I need to age it ) I usually feed 1 food for the plant 1 for the soil, but find both should be .5 - 1 ec and contain either nitrogen and things like mycrozial s and enzymes or alphalpha teas to help the plant uptake the available nitrogen, or humic acid and other organic matter like fish hydro solute to build soil and beneficials.

I would rather have a very healthy root structure with shorter healthy base than over grown or stressed, root bound is not a good thing IMO and the healthy soil with a medium feeds and lots of good soil boosters is ideal for vigorous stretch and healthy bud formation.

This is the first key of 2+ per bulb growing is establishing a healthy foundation that will support the structure and growth you need to fill as much space as possible that will in turn support the growth of healthy and productive flower sites.... It's not the 40 top buds that make a lbs plant it's getting the othe 200 medium buds to all be productive and get enough energy to fill in and get trim worthy status, remember those wall buds will get 16/64 days direct light and the middles will get 32 so put you biggest best plants in middle for max yeild as they stretch less usually with max light as well.

Sorry for those fallowing along I might be slow sometimes, had a whole day off that fist day, which never happens, so bear with me on updates... Pics soon!

So large cuttings are a must. I take it you use some type of aero cloner? What is your foliar feed? Good post.

I usually use seed starter mix, the fine peat perlite kind not vermiculite ones. And I use the tall domes either just raised up for bottom heat in my veg room off to the side, or under flouro's with a heater.

I swap or clean my domes twice a day and use the humidity on the dome to adjust temperature. If no humidity probably too cold, and if just fogged up and dripping is usually a bit warm.

Swapping the domes gets in new air and drops humidity, temporarily reminding the cut it has no roots! After a 4-5 days I take the domes off longer and if they have the vents(make sure they seal or you have to tape over then for first few days) crack em a bit but still should fog up by 12 hr mark, I do this to lower the chance of stem or leaf rot, and to encourage roots. If you get nice consistent temps should root around 5-9 days depending on strain, any longer and I'd be thinking conditions are off.

If your buying or cutting smaller cuts I would recommend giving them a few days ideally in small 4" nursery pots or beer cups just to get some vigor... Best to use extra as well as I find many times some no matter what will be slow to start.even ten extra on a hundred will give you much more consistent canopy.... 25 and your only planting the best!

For foliar a I have always rotated on a 2 or 3 day cycle between basically using my veg feed and adding saturator or a wetting agent, and then about 30ml a gal of sea weed, I like growth plus as I heard it was best way back... But thrive alive green is good sure there are a ton of others.

The other one I like to do is cal/mg, sometimes I'll mix with sm90 because it smells good and helps it stick, if humidity is lower I might also mix it with an oil based spray such as neem based ones or bug b gone. I seems to help the plants retain more moisture and gives them a thicker healthier looking growth.

I really love foliar but hate the mess! I rum Mylar in my rooms because side by side it beat out white paint in yeild( want to try orca film next) but it is garbage after 1 spray! So now I just foliar in veg room helps me get a good base and if you NEED to spray a systemic insecticide or fungicide you know damn well it's done by the end of flower...

I see so many people just neglecting their moms and veg areas, always dealing with the here and now in theirflowerroom because that is what they see as "the money" but really many of those problems stem from the neglected moms or the overgrown root bound cuts... Every stress they go through reduces a future yeild where as every stress the bigger plant has gone through is past history, you already did those things, better to focus on the ones that never had those bad days and keep it like that.... I actually learned this by my smaller plants from being behind repeatedly out yeilding my ones that over grew because the old one went a week longer or dirt was late ect ect.

Focus on the new, the next , and ensure 100% stress free happy life and you will see plants that thrive and will astound at the ability to outgrow problems later on in life... Or produce beyond compare!

Great Post! Never even thought about swapping domes but makes perfect sense. As does focus on the new. However you lost me a bit on the foliar, could you go into that just a bit more. Like the mix and rotation, ec of solution? Sounds like you rotate between foliar with veg feed on one day and cal/mg on the other. 2-3 day rotation. Do I have that right?

Do you swing bulbs up out the way for spray? Quickly learning here how close they/myself can get to the bulbs. Never had these issues with horiz. lol. Long hair on my head and sleeves on my arms have saved me more than once this last week. Not a tanning room that's for sure.

As always Rykus, your teachings are much appreciated.

Glad my ramblings are helping! I actually am not sure of the exact ec of my sprays, but I do know you can go pretty high without troubles, even a bit higher than the roots so maybe 6 ec max before harm...

I do do a spray every 2-4 days and usually just rotate between the two with minor variations just to taste.. I don't worry too much about spraying with lights on but do be careful with oil based sprays at high strength or not agitated enough, it can be quite a magnifier of light causing burn on the leaves if it is on thick in direct light.

Definitely long sleeves are a good idea...when I was a wee lad I had a nice big distinct hps burn on my right arm and leaned to grab something, much to the amusement of the older gentleman behind me... I think he realized he outed himself right about the time I removed from the horror of being outed, and was like hey..how's he know what that is...lol

Lavender oil and dragons blood for a quick heal, just try not to take one to the face!