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IDIOT's GUIDE TO PPK

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DaveTheNewbie

ok using my amazing necromancy skills, im resurrecting this thread. Its getting near to the time that I will make the big move.

From what I understand the latest fashion is low wide rootzones and pulse feeding. So is it safe to say that the wicking aspect of PPKs have been de-emphasised and the tailpiece is more about removing the PWT?

If so, if it feasible to have a short tailpiece and a type of "sock" surrounding it so that the local reservoir is trivial?

Im also thinking about a aero style timer for the pulsing and hitting it with high volume regular feedings flushing the gasses hard and fast. This would de-emphasise the wicking even more.

Does anyone have any thoughts about this?
 
D

DaveTheNewbie

or 1 step further : somehow (god knows) attach the drain line to the tailpiece itself, a couple of inches up from the bottom, with a solid base on the tailpiece, so the tailpiece becomes the reservoir as well.

This would take all PPK advantages of PWT elimination, but almost zero passive wicking.

im starting to like this train of thought :)
 

DocCrow

Member
or 1 step further : somehow (god knows) attach the drain line to the tailpiece itself, a couple of inches up from the bottom, with a solid base on the tailpiece, so the tailpiece becomes the reservoir as well.

This would take all PPK advantages of PWT elimination, but almost zero passive wicking.

im starting to like this train of thought :)

this would be no different than ebb and flow. the passive wicking is what saves your ass when your pump blows up.
 

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
Veteran
So is it safe to say that the wicking aspect of PPKs have been de-emphasised and the tailpiece is more about removing the PWT?

Its about

1) Removing the PWT
2) Stabalizing the humidity profile in the Root Zone.
3) Wicking nutes to the RZ.

Im also thinking about a aero style timer for the pulsing and hitting it with high volume regular feedings flushing the gasses hard and fast. This would de-emphasise the wicking even more.

This is becoming more commonly referred to as "Saturation Pulsing"... it demphasizes the 'upward wicking' as feed, but doesn't disolve roles 1 and 2.


somehow (god knows) attach the drain line to the tailpiece itself, a couple of inches up from the bottom, with a solid base on the tailpiece, so the tailpiece becomes the reservoir as well.

The larger the sub reservoir, the more buffered the system. And the bigger pain in the ass it is to fill and empty and all the rest if you need to...

Doing what you describe is actually not that difficult at all...

this would be no different than ebb and flow
Except for 2....

the passive wicking is what saves your ass when your pump blows up.

...The truth of this statement depends on the hydraulic qualities of the media, and the hydraulic demands of the plant. There are instances where a massive plant (1lb+) has been grown in ~ 2.5 gallons of media and the wicking of a 1.5" media wick is unable to sufficiently provide solution on its own for the whole of the plant... But it certainly delays disaster...

Damn it. Someone should draft a PPK basics tutorial.
 
D

DHF

Its about

1) Removing the PWT
2) Stabalizing the humidity profile in the Root Zone.
3) Wicking nutes to the RZ.



This is becoming more commonly referred to as "Saturation Pulsing"... it demphasizes the 'upward wicking' as feed, but doesn't disolve roles 1 and 2.




The larger the sub reservoir, the more buffered the system. And the bigger pain in the ass it is to fill and empty and all the rest if you need to...

Doing what you describe is actually not that difficult at all...


Except for 2....



...The truth of this statement depends on the hydraulic qualities of the media, and the hydraulic demands of the plant. There are instances where a massive plant (1lb+) has been grown in ~ 2.5 gallons of media and the wicking of a 1.5" media wick is unable to sufficiently provide solution on its own for the whole of the plant... But it certainly delays disaster...

Damn it. Someone should draft a PPK basics tutorial.
I MORE than welcome a PPK basics tutorial for us dumbasses that smoke too much dope along with the short term memory loss from THC/CBD poisoning stretchin our neurotransmitters apart in the old chrome dome........anyways........

Hope I remember postin this.......:moon:......

Peace.....DHF......:ying:.....
 

farmari

Member
I feel similar to DHF... finally able to believe I'm understanding the PPK thing thanks to threads like this.

The ppk is a top fed wicking recirculating hydro system.

Is there a specific question you have or are you just trying to understand the system as a whole?

On the tire valve method...

How does the solution flow through the valve? I'm ignorant and assume tire valves remain closed unless the center pin is pushed in.

And how do these narrow 1/4" drain lines not clog eventually? They just don't? With all the little bits of coco that could gradually fall in for one reason or another.

With such small drain lines, I'm surprised that there isn't a problem with the drain buckets overflowing with the pump running. A 3" gap for a 3.5gal bucket is probably only like... half a gallon? Less when factoring the lid height/curvature/thickness. I guess the key is to dial in the pump timer to near perfect accuracy?

I like the ability to use small drain diameters, to be able to move the buckets around freely. With large plants in RDWC buckets I found it almost impossible to grow very efficiently, in part because of the lack of ability to adjust the location and number of plant buckets. (particularly in veg)
 
IDIOT's GUIDE TO PPK

Remove the core from the valve, the tool costs a few bucks... Then drill them out...

Use a screen inside the bottom of the tailpiece to keep coco from coming through...

I'm working on learning organic growing now and in gonna try an organic water only ppk in a couple months...
 
Feeling pretty retarded here as I can't figure out this system. 3 things I can't find an answer for are:

1) Is the tail pipe filled with medium and is it this that does the wicking?

2) If the height of water in the bottom container is important for the proper air gap how do you keep it at this level?

3) What is this pulsing thing I keep reading about, what does it and what's it for?

Thanks for helping out. Just so much information to sort through and can't even find the simple answers. der.
 
IDIOT's GUIDE TO PPK

Feeling pretty retarded here as I can't figure out this system. 3 things I can't find an answer for are:

1) Is the tail pipe filled with medium and is it this that does the wicking?

2) If the height of water in the bottom container is important for the proper air gap how do you keep it at this level?

3) What is this pulsing thing I keep reading about, what does it and what's it for?

Thanks for helping out. Just so much information to sort through and can't even find the simple answers. der.

The tailpiece is filled with medium, pack it full of coco...

To keep the proper water level, make a control bucket with a float valve

Pulsing is very heavy top watering...
 

farmari

Member
Thanks Johnny :)

Feeling pretty retarded here as I can't figure out this system. 3 things I can't find an answer for are:

1) Is the tail pipe filled with medium and is it this that does the wicking?

2) If the height of water in the bottom container is important for the proper air gap how do you keep it at this level?

3) What is this pulsing thing I keep reading about, what does it and what's it for?

Thanks for helping out. Just so much information to sort through and can't even find the simple answers. der.

I might be the last person that should answer PPK questions, but I'll try! This could all be incorrect so someone please correct me if so:

1) Yes it's filled with medium, I presume it to be like a continuation of the bucket. Yes it does the wicking.

2) like a recirculating deep water culture, by gravity it stays at the same water level as the res does. Set the water level by filling the system to desired level. A float valve can keep it where you want (though with the narrow drains and pulse feeding, it seems there can be an issue with this, and solutions to correct it)

3) I think the 'pulsing' is simply feeding. I don't know why it's not just called feeding. All the PPK is is a recirculating drip system with a wick. The difference from a 'drip' or typical feed is it is meant to be a very short lasting high volume burst of water that floods the medium. The main theory on this is that compared to a usual feed or drip, the saturation of the medium displaces all the stagnant air in the medium, causing fresh oxygen rich air to replace it as the solution drains into the lower bucket. And also properly cycling the solution rather than a drip that might channel like a tunnel through only a portion of the medium. While the reason for the wick is to keep a more proper level of moisture in the plant bucket, and to continually water the plant bucket regardless of top feed. The wick reduces the waterloggedness potential at the bottom of the plant bucket.
 

high life 45

Seen your Member?
Veteran
IDIOT's GUIDE TO PPK

@ famari.. You take the stem out of the tire valve. Read more towards the beginning of my thread I brushed over it;)

Now I use push fittings instead of tire valves. I buy john guest fittings online for much cheaper than any of the stores.

With push fittings you can use unions and shutoff valves and make it as plug and play as you want.
 
IDIOT's GUIDE TO PPK

@ famari.. You take the stem out of the tire valve. Read more towards the beginning of my thread I brushed over it;)

Now I use push fittings instead of tire valves. I buy john guest fittings online for much cheaper than any of the stores.

With push fittings you can use unions and shutoff valves and make it as plug and play as you want.

Got a link to those fitting you are using?
 
Thanks Johnny :)



I might be the last person that should answer PPK questions, but I'll try! This could all be incorrect so someone please correct me if so:

1) Yes it's filled with medium, I presume it to be like a continuation of the bucket. Yes it does the wicking.

2) like a recirculating deep water culture, by gravity it stays at the same water level as the res does. Set the water level by filling the system to desired level. A float valve can keep it where you want (though with the narrow drains and pulse feeding, it seems there can be an issue with this, and solutions to correct it)

3) I think the 'pulsing' is simply feeding. I don't know why it's not just called feeding. All the PPK is is a recirculating drip system with a wick. The difference from a 'drip' or typical feed is it is meant to be a very short lasting high volume burst of water that floods the medium. The main theory on this is that compared to a usual feed or drip, the saturation of the medium displaces all the stagnant air in the medium, causing fresh oxygen rich air to replace it as the solution drains into the lower bucket. And also properly cycling the solution rather than a drip that might channel like a tunnel through only a portion of the medium. While the reason for the wick is to keep a more proper level of moisture in the plant bucket, and to continually water the plant bucket regardless of top feed. The wick reduces the waterloggedness potential at the bottom of the plant bucket.

Awesome! thanks for clearing that up. Basically the pipe allows water to flow down into the lower bucket as well as wicking to then avoiding having excess water content at the bottom of the bucket compared to the top. That right? I assume airstones are part of the lower bucket as well to keep the solution airated.

Now it makes sense, I'm not running to go try this and how to actually set up the reservoir to keep the right level would take some figuring out but I just wanted to make sense of it all. Pretty awesome setup. Makes me want to cut out the bottom of my soil buckets and replace with fine steel mesh to keep a more even moisture level, would mean more watering but the more you replace the medium with fresh oygenated water the faster the growth.

Props to the guys pioneering this and spreading the word! good work.
 

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
Veteran
3) I think the 'pulsing' is simply feeding. I don't know why it's not just called feeding. All the PPK is is a recirculating drip system with a wick. The difference from a 'drip' or typical feed is it is meant to be a very short lasting high volume burst of water that floods the medium.

You've answered your own question. In coco experiments with more conventional crops, it was found that frequent 'pulsed' feeds were more effective than continuous drip. The discussion is somewhere around page 1,000,000 in D9s original PPK thread.

Even as the pulse evolves and differentiates ('saturation pulsing', for example), we continue to use the same term from a discussion that started two years ago.

The same with the interchangeability of the term 'tail piece' with 'media wick'. D9 has consistently uses a piece of plumbing for sinks called a 'tail piece' that he packs with media for his wick since the earliest designs.
 
You've answered your own question. In coco experiments with more conventional crops, it was found that frequent 'pulsed' feeds were more effective than continuous drip. The discussion is somewhere around page 1,000,000 in D9s original PPK thread.

Even as the pulse evolves and differentiates ('saturation pulsing', for example), we continue to use the same term from a discussion that started two years ago.

The same with the interchangeability of the term 'tail piece' with 'media wick'. D9 has consistently uses a piece of plumbing for sinks called a 'tail piece' that he packs with media for his wick since the earliest designs.

So what is used to do the pulsing then? A pump on a timer from the main rez or does each plants pump nutrients from the bottom to the top?
 

silver hawaiian

Active member
Veteran
So what is used to do the pulsing then? A pump on a timer from the main rez or does each plants pump nutrients from the bottom to the top?

I'm guessing it's more efficient & sensible to pump from the float valve bucket into the top buckets. ..?

One pump for the system for the pulse deal, vs. one pump per plant.

IF, hl45, Johnny, all else

Thanks so much for this thread. Between this and FlowerFarmer's threadjack, I'm starting to wrap my noggin 'round the whole idea.

Edit: I posted this in FlowerFarmers thread, so I apologize if anyone's answering it twice (though it seemed reasonable that the info oughtta be here too, for dummies like me):

The tailpiece gimmick. How does that need to be fitted/secured to the top container? Can have a lip on the inside of the top container? Or does it need to be flush with the bottom of the bottom container? (if so, how does one secure it this way?) ..

..After typing that out aloud, I imagine it probably ought not matter, as long as the top container has other drainage holes to allow excess water back into the bottom bucket..

:chin:
 

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
Veteran
There are as many configurations for setting up pumps and manifolds as there are imaginations.

But yeah... most people pump from a single source to multiple plant surfaces. Depending on manifold, etc, D9 recommends 100gph per plant site... Once, I think I ran 450gph to one plant site...

D9 glues the tailpiece in place with plumbers goop. Some people just drop them in place and call it good. I think I documented running 3" pvc with a fabric screen attached with uniseals. (Salvaged from a RDWC failure...). If I took pics, they're still in the 'Interpretation' thread linked in my sig... unlike some folks, I do not voluntarily delete community history...

Bastard.

Anyway: The media wick can be cobbled together any old way. Whomever said above, "I think it's kinda like an extension of the bucket," is pretty accurate.
 
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