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Old 09-13-2017, 02:41 PM #21
Guy Brush
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I am fairly optimistic that simple soap or dish cleaner would do no harm in moderate amounts. Concentration will be key. Sounds like some good ideas for a side by side test. Are we on the right path, Chimera?
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Old 09-13-2017, 02:57 PM #22
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Yall really think it's as simple as a wetting agent?
I'm curious as to the thoughts behind this idea?

Plants aren't naturally hydrophobic & foliar feeds are uptaken very quickly... Like within minutes! So the wetting agent idea kinda has me stumped.
Also, if considering a wetting agent, wouldn't Aloe be one of the easiest to source?

I'm listening though.

I've got one idea, based on a blog I've been reading.
In the blog, they keep using acids mixed w their foliars to increase the uptake of the foliar fed minerals.

Are you folks aware that foliar feeding can be 12X more efficient that feeding through the roots?
These acids are the "keys" that open the doors.
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:16 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJPassion View Post
Yall really think it's as simple as a wetting agent?
I'm curious as to the thoughtsthoughtsthis idea?

Plants aren't naturally hydrophobic & foliar feeds are uptaken very quickly... Like within minutes! So the wetting agent idea kinda has me stumped.

I'm listening though.
The plant's waxy cuticle is quite hydrophobic and covers most of the upper leaves, shoots and stems. This, combined with fine microscopic hairs, is designed to waterproof the plant and prevent desiccation. A wetting agent breaks the surface tension so that droplets spread out readily instead of just rolling off. Using a surfactant does risk damaging the cuticle though.
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:25 PM #24
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no idea if the improved STS the OP is about is due to a wetting agent, but regardless I do think a wetting agent could be an improvement. even if it's just the ease of application(similar to adding flour to pollen, it doesn't increase the activity of the pollen as far as I know, but makes it much easier to handle, doesn't fly everywhere with just 1 breath).

btw, why are you saying plants aren't hydrophobic? the surface of leaves definitely is, you can see the raindrops rolling off in the rain, I also notice it while applying STS with a pipette. I have to do a bit of effort to get the drop balancing on a bud, and not make it too big, or it'll just roll off.

I think with a wetting agent I could apply it quicker, easier and have better coverage of the buds.

edit:
theory about the improved way of feminizing, maybe it's STS+GA3? I have to look into it some more, but on a quick search I found mentions that GA3 is involved in pollenproduction(quickly read trough the abstract of a paper looking at GA3-insensitive mutants in rice, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2217639/) also, I've read about it here as alternatrive feminizing spray, so possibly combining it with sts yields better results as either alone? sts to block female expression, GA3 to stimulate male expression, leading to more viable pollen(and maybe better opening flowers) as sts alone?

Last edited by djonkoman; 09-13-2017 at 04:57 PM..
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Old 09-13-2017, 04:54 PM #25
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Fulvic acid, maybe? I'm not sure if chelation would help the absorption of STS or CS, but they are metals...
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:33 PM #26
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Fulvic acid, maybe? I'm not sure if chelation would help the absorption of STS or CS, but they are metals...
I would think the complex with thiosulphate already fulfills that function, so that doesn't sound likely to me.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:10 PM #27
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Good thread by reeferman showing conversion rates for pentahydrate.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=308085

Never failed to reverse a plant with this formula.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:38 PM #28
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Good thread by reeferman showing conversion rates for pentahydrate.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=308085

Never failed to reverse a plant with this formula.
Oh yeah nice ! And that's it

Sam the skunkman said: " A surfactant like Tween-80 helps, a drop per liter. STS action is strongly enhanced when a surfactant is added to the solution. "

Table for both sodium thiosulfate types:

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Old 09-13-2017, 07:47 PM #29
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Originally Posted by djonkoman View Post
what kind of info are you looking for?
I have all I wanted I think, I have just to re-check the dilution rates a little bit . And then I will go with experimentation after next crop, that's the best school .
Thanks anyway !
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:04 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djonkoman View Post
however, my issue is that I now have 2 nice-looking, fully reversed plants, full of balls and not a single female flower, but the balls don't contain any pollen...
Was following the STS thread quoted and ran across this, from Sam...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamKingofSkunk
I saw quite a few that were functionally sterile meaning they did not drop pollen, even if they made it. Often the pollen was kind of sticky and if you used a q-tip you could get pollen enough to effect pollination. Others you just need to alter the ratios of the STS spray ingredients or the frequency or numbers of the applications to get useable pollen.
And some will not make male flowers or make any pollen.
Don't give up, try variations.
-SamS
And this, from Charles-Scott...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles-scott
Here I grabbed this from another thread I commented on
We have had no issues with ECSD at all in Canada or my friends in Spain .
My Spanish friends use her on a regular Basis , you just need to follow up with a 2nd treatment , often it can seem like strains are not producing pollen , however the reversed flower clusters are too tight to let out the pollen .
This is when you cut all the flower cluster away from as much stem as possible than get a tight sealing container place the clusters in paper towel than pour silica jell packages for new leather items or just the crystal they sell to dry out cars and seal it .
This will dry the clusters quickly than put the flowers in a pollinator and tumble when they are dry and you will be shocked at the pollen even the toughest reversing strain will produce .


SPGI looks like there is nothing in the tiny tight flowers yet it produces volumes of pollen .
There is a french company that makes a very small SS drummed version of the pollinator that is ideal for this use .
https://www.pollenextractor.com/Shop/en/

You need to let the reversed flowers fully mature cut dry removing as much stock as you can when you place the Clusters in the drum throw a few coins in with them .

We have also found that with some strains it helps to follow up with a CS treatment we found that in tests that using the STS stock solution followed up with high PPM CS produced a higher volume of pollen .
I find that 40% of reversed plants will not produce usable amounts of pollen with out the use of the pollinator to collect it .
We hand pollinate with soft make up brushes , we also mix pollen with Corn starch as a carrier to make it go further protect it when freezing and it helps mark the plant as to where we have brushed the pollen on .
The SPGI for example would not pollinate anything it went very weird with tiny little flowers that looked like a flop but when dried and put in the pollinator it produced commercially viable levels of pollen .
I suspect that you #1 may not have waited long enough to get pollen developed #2 that the pollen was there but need to be extracted or a little of both .
I have reversed plants indoors and outdoors on a larger scale with a good luck , I have a small hoop now that I am reversing a number of plants in , I have not really encountered a plant that I could not get some pollen from , We recently grew out 700 female seeds we did not encounter a single hermie we did encounter three full on males .
Charles

So, don't give up hope and keep trying. Save
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