Goodbye Humboldt & hello Monterey County!

I do not see how the Emerald Triangle can compete with central and southern Cali in commercial weed growing. Screw growing lettuce!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/15/us/california-marijuana-industry-agriculture.html?_r=0

For those with skills, prolly the same way craft beer competes against Budweiser etc.

I just do not see how Humboldt can compete. The Salinas Valley has lots of flat farmland for GH and outdoor grows, it has far better and more consistent weather than Humboldt, it has an existing very large and skilled ag labor pool in place, it has massive scale agricultural companies there already, it has direct freeway access to LA and SF via Hwy 101, and they have water there from both San Antonio Lake and San Louis Dam. They are not stupid farmers there, nor are they mediocre. It takes a lot of skill to grow virtually everything in the Salad Bowl of the Salinas Valley. Like strawberries, boutique lettuce, and artichokes. There are also a lot of very high end wines that comes out of there. And... before the Emerald Triangle was ever on the weed map, a LOT of weed was grown in Monterey Co. By the likes of myself. Yes, I am biased, but I grew up in Monterey Co. surrounded by industrial ag. Companies like Dole Bananas and Bud Antle are MASSIVE SCALE growing operations. It will be simple for them to get funding, slap up greenhouses, plant and grow on a massive scale, harvest and process, test, package and ship.

I believe that Salinas Grown MJ is going to absolutely kick ass. I saw the same thing happen when they planted grapes there in the 70s.

I consulted on (3) 180,000 sq. ft. greenhouses in Salinas. They wanted me as a master grower and I turned them down...Moneywise it was a poor choise but ethically I am happy with my decision. The cannabis grown down there is going to all be commercial quality at best. They are going to pump them all full of whatever chemical fertilizers are cheapest to buy in bulk, and the "master growers" are going to be "skilled laborers" at best. IMHO this is not the direction the industry should be going and I fully stand by and support all the small farmers, growers, and business owners out there. Diversity is key.

I also hold a controversial view on medical vs. rec... I think long ago California made medical cannabis a joke. And now that rec is here I think it is important that a new distinction should be made. Many people probably wont like this, but I feel medical grade cannabis should be grown indoors, where strict environmental controls are possible and contaminates can be eliminated. Every other pharmaceutical grade product adheres to very strict clean room standards for production, and I feel Medical Cannabis should not be treated differently. Many patients (and non patients) are immune-compromised, have allergies, or just plain deserve the peace of mind of knowing that what they are putting into their body was made in the safest and cleanest of conditions.
I believe there is a place in the market for everyone because that's how we in this community have treated one another for so many years. I don't want to see that go away when corporate greed comes into play. Community>Industry

GrowingFurthur said:

I consulted on (3) 180,000 sq. ft. greenhouses in Salinas. They wanted me as a master grower and I turned them down...Moneywise it was a poor choise but ethically I am happy with my decision. The cannabis grown down there is going to all be commercial quality at best. They are going to pump them all full of whatever chemical fertilizers are cheapest to buy in bulk, and the "master growers" are going to be "skilled laborers" at best. IMHO this is not the direction the industry should be going and I fully stand by and support all the small farmers, growers, and business owners out there. Diversity is key.

I also hold a controversial view on medical vs. rec... I think long ago California made medical cannabis a joke. And now that rec is here I think it is important that a new distinction should be made. Many people probably wont like this, but I feel medical grade cannabis should be grown indoors, where strict environmental controls are possible and contaminates can be eliminated. Every other pharmaceutical grade product adheres to very strict clean room standards for production, and I feel Medical Cannabis should not be treated differently. Many patients (and non patients) are immune-compromised, have allergies, or just plain deserve the peace of mind of knowing that what they are putting into their body was made in the safest and cleanest of conditions.
I believe there is a place in the market for everyone because that's how we in this community have treated one another for so many years. I don't want to see that go away when corporate greed comes into play. Community>Industry

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I agree about the purity needed but indoor is not necessary to have that. Also have you been to Humboldt ? There are a lot of big trees around haha aka redwoods. It is the perfect conditions with the temps and the longer days and uv etc. Salinas is temperate not too hot not too cold aka just ok. Coastal is usually not better than a higher location. Those are facts not opinion . Peace sdd

in socal...
been to many coops...


they tend to Grow there own and cure and sell there own from clones.

this cuts out vendors and such.

city licenced coops are popping up in l.a.. orange and san diego.

the only way to even get into these coops is to have better strains better grows and proven strains.

by 2018 the doors to so cal will be wide open to commercial enterprise.

like a gold miner... seeds and new crosses may be the only nugget a small farmer has.

GrowingFurthur said:

I consulted on (3) 180,000 sq. ft. greenhouses in Salinas. They wanted me as a master grower and I turned them down...Moneywise it was a poor choise but ethically I am happy with my decision. The cannabis grown down there is going to all be commercial quality at best. They are going to pump them all full of whatever chemical fertilizers are cheapest to buy in bulk, and the "master growers" are going to be "skilled laborers" at best. IMHO this is not the direction the industry should be going and I fully stand by and support all the small farmers, growers, and business owners out there. Diversity is key.

I also hold a controversial view on medical vs. rec... I think long ago California made medical cannabis a joke. And now that rec is here I think it is important that a new distinction should be made. Many people probably wont like this, but I feel medical grade cannabis should be grown indoors, where strict environmental controls are possible and contaminates can be eliminated. Every other pharmaceutical grade product adheres to very strict clean room standards for production, and I feel Medical Cannabis should not be treated differently. Many patients (and non patients) are immune-compromised, have allergies, or just plain deserve the peace of mind of knowing that what they are putting into their body was made in the safest and cleanest of conditions.
I believe there is a place in the market for everyone because that's how we in this community have treated one another for so many years. I don't want to see that go away when corporate greed comes into play. Community>Industry

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One thing, afaik Monterey County is charging $25 per square feet annually for permits. As well they are only giving permits to existing greenhouses. So you have to have an old greenhouse then retrofit it.

180k square feet would be what, 4.5mil a year for the permit? That is a lot of overhead, plus all the expenses to operate and start up. They will be competing versus tons of Nor Cal farmers who have been well established for 10.. 20.. 50 years. Established gardens with very little overhead and operating expenses. The company that just invested 10 million is not going to be to happy having a price war with farmers who are producing pounds for under 100... 50.. dollars.

I do think the politicians will do whatever they can to shut down the mom and pops, so the corporate guys have a chance.

I think Salinas will have more security issues as well. Nor Cal mountains provide protection and isolation as well as the typical citizen being really into the 2nd amendment has kept a lot of the bad elements out. Like you said Salinas is right on the 101. Go a little South or North and you run into some serious gang areas. What prison is that, Wasco? When guys get out of Wasco and see huge greenhouses full of product right on the freeway.... Couple bad incidents and I see the county pulling out of the industry to protect all the rich people on the coast.

Never know though, should be interesting. I think different genetics grow better in different micro climates. We use to get some really great herb from Big Sur. It was always a little leafy and airy, but super tasty and sticky.

Also I think both Mendocino and Trinity out produce Humboldt by a lot. Mendo is barely above SF as well.

Mr^^

I have lived in these areas of California myself: San Diego, LA, San Jose, Salinas, Pacific Grove, Redwood Valley, Anchor Bay and North Tahoe. I have grown in all of them except North Tahoe. Redwood Valley and Potter Valley are ideal, but more remote and most of the land there is planted in grapes, a high value crop. The Salinas Valley is also ideal. Toward the coast the fog and cool weather is more of an issue. Cannabis likes HEAT. In the valleys the climate is more ideal and there is more heat. The father south you go in CA, the better the climate for growing weed, the less rain they get and later to no frost, and the easier it is to grow outdoors. San Diego is simply ideal, as are places like Temecula and Bakersfield. California is fucking HUGE state. Actually when the Republic of California applied to become a US state, the Feds worried that it was too large an area for one state. Demographically it is really 2 states, split between north and south roughly between SLO and Santa Maria.

If Monterey Co. is charging $25 a sq ft for growing per year then growing there will become extinct. Talk about stupid. But security is a non-issue. The only reason Humboldt was good for growing was because of the illicit nature of weed then. When it is legal, they will have police protection, and likely there will be security. In Oregon, to get a grow license you have to have a 10 foot perimeter wall, a commercial lacking system, a video surveillance system, an armed response alarm system, and you have to have a secure area for keeping your records, video tapes, and cash. Few if any grow operations here have been broken into. I have not heard of any commercial grows being raided, ripped off or broken into myself. Early on in WA state they had break ins into unsecured medical grow operations.

As for commercial quality vs top shelf, here in Oregon they sell both at many dispensaries. Commercial grade tends to out-sell top shelf. It depends on what you want, but the same strain of weed is generally the same high. And once you make extracts from them, there is zero difference. Few here want terpenes... its all about THC and dabbs/wax/shatter. Sadly.

I do not see boutique or small growers surviving in any of the western states. Most of the laws here in Oregon favor large growers, and in this state large consortiums have come in to buy up existing licenses. While they do offer small canopy grow licenses here, all licenses require the exact same very long list of requirements to be completed before you can get one. in California after 4 or so more years, the canopy limit of one acre will be lifted, and that will be an invitation to HUGE scale operation grows. Also in California, Medical weed is going away. Forget the existing system. Its will be gone. Its all going to be commercial rec weed. Oregon is considering doing the same and bailing on the OHA medical weed program.

I've been trying to buy decent land in the Triangle for the past 3 years. The large places I've looked at, you can smell and see the infestations etc from a mile away. The big money players are buying these places up quickly, and of course their IPM is non existent+they will be using the same greenhouses that were originally on the property, so that will be interesting.

If you're a smaller farmer in the Triangle, I'd guess you're going for the chance of interstate commerce in the next 10-15 years (and that's an optimistic prediction). If that happens, appellation branded crops in Humboldt and Mendocino will be worth their weight in gold.

If anyone knows of any decent land for sale in the area (with permit applications submitted) PM me.

From what I can gather, there are only 13 counties of the 58 in California that have banned cultivation of Cannabis. Those are Riverside, Los Angeles, San Bernadino, Kern, Santa Barbara, Kings, Fresno, Stanislaus, Alameda, Contra Costa, Alpine, Placer, and Colusa. 2 counties are pending decisions on cultivation: Calaveras and San Louis Obispo.

Few counties allow for all levels of marijuana business including cultivation, manufacturing/processing, and sales. Those are Monterey, Santa Cruz, Humboldt, and San Francisco. Counties that are still pending decisions for allowing all levels of MJ business are Calaveras and Mendocino.

It seems to me like commercial cultivation will be pretty open in California. I would put my money in Santa Cruz or Monterey County myself. As for Monterey Co. fees for commercial growing, that has yet to be determined. Commercial growing requirements, fees and licenses after the new law takes effect in 2018 have yet to be set in Monterey County. I would not base the, on current medical grow laws.

And a word to the wise: I would not buy any land or invest hard money anywhere in California until the county laws are set in stone. In Oregon a lot of people rushed out and bought land here before the counties had referendums on rec weed. In particular, Douglas and Marion County passed a ban on rec weed (no commercial growing, sales, or processing) after people had bought up land hoping to grow rec weed on. Now they are screwed. Also in Humboldt and Mendocino counties (as well as in all other counties), water regulation is going to be a huge issue. Water permits will be required before any commercial cannabis cultivation licenses are issued. A similar law passed here in Oregon, and you have to show that you have a water right before you can get a grow license in Oregon. So buyers beware.

Hot greenhouses are great for fast growth. Typically NLD or NLD leaning hybrid varieties are more suited to flower in those conditions. Hot and humid.

The mountains provide a contrast between hot and cold. Cold air holds less moisture. Get denser more colorful product. Indoors you can crank up the temperature and get more weight, but a cooler drier finish will give you higher quality.

Friends with a long time retired grower who always told me it was the contrast of the hot daytime temps with the cold nights that make the mountain grown pot so great.

Look at the elevation in Pakistan, Nepal, Afghanistan. We wouldn't have great genetics if it wasn't for the land races coming from those elevations.

Everyone has different tastes and preferences. Every location, climate, micro climate will produce different product, and if bred correctly will produce unique land race genetics. African genetics will always hold a special place in my heart, as well as Afghani, and of course a hybrid like Skunk!

Waterboard isn't a big deal. Basically they want there money, and they want you to work towards not harming the watersheds. They take your money and make sure you have a plan to improve the farm.

There is a direct link between quantity and quality. As farms increase production the quality will drop. Profits will raise, but quality will drop.
Harvested early, manhandled, flash dry, machine trim, sealed in a bag ready for sale. Nobody is going to slow cure and hand trim 1000# dep runs. Even if its grown well, the processing will lower the quality tons. Cali smokers are picky, some commercial cookies may sell for a while but once they taste true quality they will know which jar to reach for over and over.

10-15 years for interstate commerce, should come tell that to the locals in the triangle. California has produced the majority of the entire countries pot for the last 50 years. I have heard estimates that less than 10% of the pot grown in the triangle stays in California. Had a lawyer friend tell me that the State basically knows this, so they wont ever shut it down because it would have such a drastic effect on the economy both locally and nationally. Sure they will threaten, scare some people off, shut some farms down, collect some fines, make people plant multiple smaller patch's but they will never shut it down.

I have had some really awesome pot from Santa Cruz mountains. They have a great micro climate, and some really skilled growers. I think Santa Cruz mountain pot will have a niche in the market for sure. Salinas to me.. it smells like shit, its dry, hot and miserable. I wouldn't even stop in Salinas to eat lunch. I imagine they will use the same labor force to work the farms. So basically underpaid migrant workers. You think a migrant worker making minimum wage, working in the sun in a 110 degree greenhouse will care about the quality? Have some friends who are born and raised in Prunedale, aka Prunetucky, they always make the drive towards Santa Cruz to get the quality.

The genetics are going to blow up, should be exciting to see breeding get back on the right track and at such volume.

Mr^^

Riverside co allows 12 per rec 2 rec's per property so you can have 24...

MedResearcher said:

Have some friends who are born and raised in Prunedale, aka Prunetucky, they always make the drive towards Santa Cruz to get the quality.

r^^

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prunetucky hahahahahahah
funny

We went to Santa Cruz a lot, but I always took weed with me there. Back in the day, Prunedale/Aromas and Carmel Valley had the best weed around. Case in point, I got the entire bar full of people at the Old Sash Mill hammered on Carmel Valley weed on several occasions, including the band Crazy Horse and Niel Young. NO ONE else had weed that good there on those occasions, including the band, who always asked me for more... always. It got to the point that my brother and I drank for "free" there in trade.

As for Humboldt remaining dominant in weed production? I just do not see it happening. Also contrary to what people have posted here, altitude and cool weather just means less volume produced from the same strains. Cannabis is not Vitis, and I have not seen any great reduction in quality when growing weed inland as opposed to the coast or in the hills in cooler climates. That has not happened in my experience. Quite the opposite really. My brother can grow far more bud than I can with the same strains on the Valley floor than I can here in the foothills, from the exact same clones. The main difference? He gets an average of 5 F. degrees higher temps than I do. I saw the same thing in Monterey Co, growing along the cooler coast and hills vs. the inland valley areas. The valleys were supurb growing sites. More volume, more resin, better weed. Been there, grown that.

Also when it comes to indoor growing? It does not matter a lick about quality where you are growing indoors. And some new indoor facilities in the US and Canada are on the order of a million square feet in size. That is like 23 acres indoors!

The June 7 elections will have some more impact on who can grow commercial weed in what counties in California. Also the county and city laws are still in flux. Sac'to Co. just voted to ban commercial growing. So no commercial sales, processing or growing there. Sad that. I see no correlation to growing legal weed and crime here in Oregon. But oh no! Cannot have that here! Ban it! Another dry high population county, like LA.

You need to watch the banks they ran the apple industry out of California to replace it with grapes . It was n,t about Cesar Chavez , it was not about my uncles who raised apples , it was B of fucking A , conquer and divide business people play hardball . The prune trees in The Sacramento Valley are as big as the prune trees WERE in Mendocino , none there or pears anymore Near Ukiah .They took out the kiwis near Chico , put in olives , oh well . I felt like screaming at The Emerald Cup " take some ag classes ag economics at your local JC .

BofA (formerly known as the Bank of Italy) has had their hands dirty in all kind of business over the years. I used to work at an Italian restaurant in a tourist trap in Central California. Every Friday night the BofA execs in suits would come down from San Francisco and eat with the owners for 2 hours. I always wondered why... until... on weekends after my restaurant shift I would go upstairs and work the back register at the live music bar if it was busy. The owners of the restaurant also owned the bar (they owned the whole building, actually). Often times I saw the BofA execs up there drinking as well. Anyway, after a few months of this I walked into the office one day and casually picked up my rolled up and rubber banded register tab from the night before, and lo, I had magically done 2 times the drawer that I remember closing out. I asked the assistant manger what it was about, and he asked me what I was making an hour. I said $6. He casually took the register roll from my hand and said, "no, you make $7 an hour..." and that was that. No answer to my question. My question had never been asked. Easiest raise that I ever got.

The bar was basically a money laundering operation, and the suits were there every Friday to deliver cash to the bar. And the restaurant as it turned out.