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Lucas Nutrient Program...Questions for those using it.

Buddha1

Member
Veteran
I just recently decided to change my salts/nutes from measuring and mixing raw salts to grow and I discovered the Lucas Program.

First question is... Is this for real??

If so, why haven't I heard of this a long time ago. I did a few days research over the long weekend on the interweb and all I could find was...Mix General Hydroponics, Floramicro 8ml and Florabloom 16ml per gallon together and your good to go, using the same solution for both Vegative and flower cycles and you get the best bud ever. There's no mention of using other suppliments, to promote healthy growth..at all.

I find this hard to believe...If it's to good to be true, it usually is.

Could a grower that is using the Lucas Program and is experiance in this unusually simple program, please shed some light on the ins and outs.
I don't doubt a simple grow program could exist... but its so simple and it uses no other suppliments, how could it be true.

Please a grow chart... please and thank you.

Peace...B
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
I started with the Lucas ratio and the reservoir management methods he advised over 16 years ago. At the time, it was the hydro method with the highest number of newbies pulling off a successful grow. It also has the highest number of growers actively using it and supplying helpful information.

Today I still use it as my base nutrient, adding only epsom and a touch of silicon and fulvic. Combined with the little gems of info I've come across over the years for environment and clean hydro, it definitely grows some smashing cannabis. :D



My most exceptional quality cannabis is like smoking superior quality hash. There's so little 'burnt plant' taste to it, all you experience is massive aroma and flavor. Even the last hit in the bowl, and the exhale of it, are so tasty you want to chomp at it like a burger and prolong the experience.

So soft and cool hitting, the sheer amount of smoke in your exhale will amaze you. You literally are unable to tell you've taken a big hit. :)

So yes, it's an excellent base for a well dialed in environment and properly operated hydro and cannabis system. It's like having real espresso for the first time. You just can't look at the poor quality of Starbucks and say "Yum" anymore. ;)
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
The majority of 'issues' I've seen come from improperly using it.

Best results use:
Reverse Osmosis filtered water only
Full and natural pH swing in the reservoir
Just enough Magnesium Sulfate for your strain (Epsom Salt)
Slightly stronger or weaker for 'your' plant needs

Without the full pH swing you will see deficiencies. Using anything other than 4-15ppm water (easiest is r/o filtered) will interfere with the pH swing. It won't make it impossible, it simply won't be as easy or as effective as using r/o or its equal.
 

Buddha1

Member
Veteran
Thanks for the response...:tiphat:.

I've been doing research for a while now on nutrient systems and have decided to go with the Botanicare Kind program.

Botanicare Kind is very similar to the Lucus program... the amounts used per gallon(ml/gal), the NPK, and its simplicity... only substantial difference is it has separate grow and bloom, but both are 2 parts(grow + micro/bloom + micro). No need for all the extra suppliments, just a tea and that is basically an optional extra.

Its the simplicity of the Kind, that I like...the raw salts I use now I weigh individually and then add them to the res, then I use suppliments as well(humid, folic, carbs, a zyme...etc., etc.), very complicated and time consuming...a lot of time and energy I could use else where in the grow.

I have also talked to a couple growers I know that use the Kind and they swear by it...simple, with a great final product. They've been on me for years now to change my old school way. I've smoked and enjoy there product and am finally giving in... lol.

Here's a link, if you want to check it out.

www.botanicare.com

Peace...B
 
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Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
Jacks is supposedly cheaper, though I have yet to test the end quality it can produce.

In the end, it doesn't really matter what nutrient line you use, as long as it is cleanly made, and you can get very close to the same NPK/micros the Lucas mix provides. It's the combination of this and the reservoir management methods which grow great cannabis. The more you know about what's needed to produce quality, the more the Lucas recommended ratio will shine in your garden. :)

One thing I will say is using a nutrient with higher pH buffering will not work as well. Cannabis needs the full pH swing to be able to properly use a balanced nutrient profile at very low feed levels. Any pH stabilized type nutrient or grow method will (IMO) always grow a lower quality flower.


:tiphat:
 

Buddha1

Member
Veteran
Started the Botanicare Kind nutrients program.

I'll let you all know how they work out...I won't know if its as good or the same as the Lucas program, I can only compare it to the old raw salts system I have been using for 25 years. Which always got me 1.2-1.4lbs of crystal covered bud per 1000w lamp.

I can say this right now though... way simpler. I was done mixing in 5 minutes(including a PH adjustment) and watering/feeding the plants.
When using the raw salts system... I'd have to weigh it all out, then boil water to dissolve them and then mix them in the res... then add Humic Acid, Folvic Acid, Grozyme, Superyhrive, and finally some carbs... took over an hour, some times an hour and a half (depending on how many litres I needed) before I was watering/feeding the plants.

So right off I'm happier with having more time to do other things in the grow...:dance013:.
If it performs as well, I'll stay happy...If it performs better I'll be ecstatic...:woohoo:.

Peace...B
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
If you didn't run across it, here are the recommended reservoir management steps:



  • Fill your reservoir with r/o (Divide HID lamp wattage by 4. I use a 70g reservoir with 45g of nutrient for a 1k HPS)
  • Add nutrients to 700'ish ppm (yes, I mix slightly weaker than full Lucas @ 8:16)
  • Add pH up till pH is at 5.4 (I use potassium carbonate powder from GH)
  • Top off daily with r/o water to original volume (For my reservoir it would be the 45g mark)
  • After daily top off, check and record pH/ppm
  • When pH reaches 5.9, add nutrients back to 750ppm
  • pH will be back at 5.4
  • Repeat




My personal additions


  • Repeat this cycle until flowers stop expanding in size and transpiration slows, then dump out a few gallons and replace with r/o to decrease ppms
  • Keep reducing ppms this way until transpiration goes back up
  • Keep transpiration rate decently high (by decreasing ppm further if necessary) until 5 days before harvest
  • Replace nute solution with pure r/o for the last 5 days
  • Harvest
 
Lucas is great. I used it for many years. It's for real. You will have good results with it. But it can be challenging.

I think there's much better things on the market now for cannabis plants. Lucas is an incredible guerrilla formula for cannabis plants. But the new stuff that's specifically made for cannabis plants is much better imho. The original Lucas was 5/10 in Veg and 8/16 in Flower. It was absolutely revolutionary and I think the vast majority of people who have played with DWC over the last ten-fifteen years have played with Lucas. It was absolutely amazing in it's day.

Everyone here has their preferred base and system. I jumped from Lucas to Jack's just recently. But I think there's much better stuff out there now.

However, you certainly may have better results then I did and I'm just a hobby grower. But I think I've done probably two dozen runs with Lucas over the years. I'm super appreciative of everything it's done for me but I'm having much better results with more updated things now.
 
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Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
5:10 is for lower lighting flower, it was never recommended by Lucas for veg. Just an FYI.

16 years using Lucas exclusively. When it's used properly, I'd say it rocks. ;)





As I explained before, the information on proper res management is what's been left out. Without understanding it, your results will vary. Still one of the easiest ways for a newbie to learn hydro and still get a usable first harvest.


:tiphat:
 

Robbie vapez

Active member
Great info,
It's been 10 years since I have grown in hydro. I am planning on using maxibloom, silica and fulvic in hemp buckets running perlite and vermiculite for ease and time atm. Douglas, what duration are you running your silica and fulvic? I just got a gallon of quality fulvic at 8%, what rate do you think I should try?
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
Silicon/silica, I've been using Pro-Tekt brand. I pH my nutes to 5, and then use the silica to hit 5.4. Hempy's are more like a Roots-Out system, though a bit of a hybrid, and I used 5.9-6.0 with them. I would still only use silicon for a few tenths of a pH point, since overuse creates brittle branches for me.


I only use silicon in the first mix of the reservoir, or first watering of a hempy. As the plants absorb the silicon, the pH goes down. I add a bit of pH up to compensate, as the pH drops over the first week or two.



I use Floralicious+ for fulvic, and I like less than 2ml/gallon at the start with perhaps a 1ml/gallon add at week 2-3. Any more or later and I can taste it, and it's not a straight "cannabis" flavor I like. ;) No idea how Floralicious+ stacks up against 8% fulvic, but it should help. :)
 
5:10 is for lower lighting flower, it was never recommended by Lucas for veg. Just an FYI.

16 years using Lucas exclusively. When it's used properly, I'd say it rocks. ;)

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As I explained before, the information on proper res management is what's been left out. Without understanding it, your results will vary. Still one of the easiest ways for a newbie to learn hydro and still get a usable first harvest.


:tiphat:


You're probably right. Back in the dark ages, I always read 5/10 and 8/16 but that was dumbed down wisdom. :tiphat:
They were arguing about these exact things eleven years ago.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=105738

:biggrin:
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
what do you use for long term veg? and do you flush during bloom? i never used to flush but having problems now.
Long term veg, I use Maxibloom. Plain, it grows shorter stocky plants which yield very well. Lately I've been adding a pinch of Jacks Cal-Nit to it and I like the results.

The only "flush" I do is a swap out for pure r/o filtered water, about 5-7 days before harvest. What I "do" during flower, is I quit feeding heavily and taper off ppm levels after flower bulking quits. My nutrient solution is down to around 500ppm when I swap it out before harvest.
 
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