Neem Cake

Douglas.Curtis said:

There's a huge difference between remaining ignorant, and actually taking the time to figure out what the problem is. Considering my options without cannabis are 'less than stellar,' it was important to discover the root cause of my issues. Rx is not an option for me, thanks.

There are three major causes of Cyclical Vomiting Syndrome that I'm aware of. The first is gall bladder, cancer and other medical issues. The second is Cannabinoid Hyperemsis Syndrome, which is a reaction a small number of people have to moderate to high levels of THC. The third reason is azadirachtin exposure, which has all of the symptoms of CHS, plus hypothermia.

Since I discovered my issue is azadirachtin, I have had zero problems with clean cannabis. Clean cannabis does not help those with CHS. Recently I have run across a few who use high CBD, very low THC cannabis daily (only a single bowl) without issues.

Life is too short to remain ignorant, especially when it effects your daily life. Get smart, get aware.

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Whoa, you are saying smoking azidiractin is causing you to have hypothermia???????



Look, just prove to me, in some documented way, that you ever had hypothermia without exposure to harsh environments.



Honestly, if you had just said clean cannabis makes you better. But the problem is you're saying specically that it is azadiractin that does it, and that you have collected data that corroborates your statement. Since you are lying about the latter, you see how no one believes the former. It's like the boy who cried wolf.



Honestly though, I have neem leaf, and I am about to just roll up a blunt of it and smoke it, video tape it, than post it up on here just to prove it to you that there is nothing wrong with it.

I appreciate your story, it's a great example of why I don't listen to random people about subjects they have not studied. I can assure you I'm not this kind of person, and that I take the time to investigate all possibilities. Should I find something which may be useful information, I will test it to be sure.

Microbeman said:

I have tried researching salient literature/studies on the subject but only find speculation and hyperbole. I have asked you to point me to such literature, even logical anecdotal information with nothing forthcoming. For some individuals the speculation presented may be compelling, but this does not give license to make announcements and warn all people off of using neem meal. Many people have sensitivities to various compounds and certainly everyone has the right to get the details involved in cultivation of the product they are using.

I do not know what you mean by the pony boy statement.

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I have every right to warn people off of neem meal. I have the right to warn people off of aza products and neem oil. I'm intelligent, honest and have a scientific mind. The experiments were carried out with controls and the results were undeniable. The last 7 years have done nothing but repeatedly verify my testing, and I've watched an increasing number of people have issues as 'legalization' continues to expand.

Can't find anything? You're not looking. Like I said, I've been covering this subject for over 7 years. Saying you can't find anything on it is ridiculous. Here... I'll take 5 minutes. I'll start with the search I recommended using my name and azadirachtin. Read what I have previously posted, expand your search properly. I will not be your pony boy and do the research for you now, I have already done it and posted it repeatedly.
"site:icmag.com Douglas.Curtis azadirachtin"

"cannabis azadirachtin poison"

Those two searches alone are enough for any intelligent person. Have fun.

Some studies from NCBI..

So if you search for adverse effects from neem or azadirachtin some studies do appear in proper scientific journal's but adverse effects are still really really really low as anyone will see by searching through journals for a little while. As i said hundreds of millions of people take the oil orally..

Has anyone actually shown that any phytochemistry within neem can be absorbed into cannabis?

Since antiquity neem has been renowned for healing. The earliest Sanskrit medical writings refer to the benefits of its fruits, seeds, oil, leaves, roots, and bark.1*Each of these has long been used in the Indian Ayurveda and Unani systems of medicine. Thus, over thousands of years, millions of Asians have used neem medicinally. In addition, in places where the tree has been introduced in recent times, such as tropical America and Africa, it has also established a reputation as a useful cure for various ailments.

Today, the best-established and most widely recognized uses are based on its merits as a general antiseptic. Neem preparations are reportedly efficacious against a variety of skin diseases, septic sores, and infected burns. The leaves, applied in the form of poultices or decoctions, are also recommended for boils, ulcers, and eczema. The oil is used for skin diseases such as scrofula, indolent ulcers, and ringworm.

Cures for many more ailments have been claimed but have not been independently confirmed by trials under controlled conditions. Nonetheless, there are intriguing indications that neem might in future be used much more widely. These promising, but unproved, applications include anti-inflammatory, hypotensive, and anti-ulcer treatments.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234637/

Neem oil has widespread use in Indian subcontinent due to its many bioactive properties. Azadirachtin, an active ingredient, is implicated in causing the effects seen in neem oil poisoning. Neem oil poisoning is rare in adults. This report highlights the toxicity associated with neem oil poisoning in an elderly male. The patient presented with vomiting, seizures, metabolic acidosis, and toxic encephalopathy. The patient recovered completely with symptomatic treatment.

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Azadirachtin (C35H44O16) manifests its toxicity possibly by interfering with mitochondrial bioenergetics, resulting in inhibition of the generation of the electrochemical proton gradient (primary form of energy generated in mitochondria). Acute poisoning with inhibitors of electron transporting complexes causes symptoms such as muscle weakness, easy fatigability, hypotension, headache, facial flushing, nausea, confusion, and aggravation of latent myocardial angina. The inability to utilize oxygen is manifested as a cytotoxic hypoxia wherein the chemicals cause a metabolic acidosis and hyperpnea, despite normal pO2. However, inhibitors of the supply of reducing substrates for the respiratory chain cause a similar metabolic syndrome that is difficult to distinguish from inhibitors of the electron transport chain.[7]

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3841499/

My final point for this post is that Azadirachtin is a quite harsh chemical, i mean its main use is anti microbial so that should tell us that it has some forceful pharmacology/kinetics.

I do believe it could be the Neem meal, but looking at the evidence out there based on journals on adverse effects and reported adverse effects it seems unlikely unless you are particularly sensitive to the triterpenoids that your system will respond in this manner. After all even homeopathic dosages of things can and do cause biological effects and allergic reactions.

People who do might want to have their bloods looked at for blood sugar, anaemia, kidney function and liver function because these are the dysfunctions linked with neem oil sensitivity. Which is very likely why toxicity is much much more common in children. However these issues would cause a sensitivity to a quite broad range of phytochemicals i should imagine.

The test would be proof that cannabis accumulates triterpenoids from Neem.

Douglas; As stated your links and searches lead to hyperbole. Certainly you have the right to say as you wish but it is IMO irresponsible to do so. You briefly outlined your study and what I read was far from scientifically carried out. At this point I'm doubting your comprehension level so carry on.

Lost; Thank you. As I stated human sensitivities are diverse. I avoid all of these things personally.

Im struggling to find anything about plants actually absorbing terpenoids such as Azadirachtin or other plant secondary metabolites from the soil.. its not a nutrient or anything the plant really wants just a random secondary metabolite from another plant, so my brain really wants to ask why would they have pathways for its uptake? It makes no sense.

For anyone interested here's a pretty exhaustive university page on Azadirachtin specifically with regards to use in horticulture as a pesticide sprayed on plants and its safety for various organisms.. its pretty deadly to fish but that is no surprise really they breath in water.

https://sitem.herts.ac.uk/aeru/bpdb/Reports/46.htm

Glad to see its rated as low threat to earthworms..

This is just azadirachtin though which will be in much lower concentrations in the spent cake than in these products.

Allergic reactions for various reasons can never be ruled out and if its possible that the plant is accumulating this terpenoid then its being delivered directly to the lungs which no study will have ever tested the specific toxicological effects of.. Also the ancients never smoked neem so its use in TCM/Ayurveda is a bit irrelevant even if it mostly proves the overall safety of using neem. Just trying to not be biased even though my instinct in this case wants to be.

Somone dump a load of Neem in their soil and get a lab test on the flowers.. if there are no chemicals from neem in it then there's no chance its the culprit..

@Microbeman Your assessment is incorrect, sorry you feel the way you do.

Lost in a SOG said:

Im struggling to find anything about plants actually absorbing terpenoids such as Azadirachtin or other plant secondary metabolites from the soil.. its not a nutrient or anything the plant really wants just a random secondary metabolite from another plant, so my brain really wants to ask why would they have pathways for its uptake? It makes no sense.

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Oh wow. So, you're not aware of cannabis as a dynamic accumulator? It enjoys other pathways than the passive ionic uptake most plants rely on. You've never heard of cannabis being used to pull radioactive metals from soil? The plant has zero need for this, or excessive cadmium or other toxic substances, yet cannabis does absorb them. Cannabis/Hemp is used to clean soil of toxins.

Hemp Cleaning Chernobyl and Oil Spills

This is why I'm such a stickler about what exactly goes in the root zone for my plants. If it's in the root zone, cannabis seems to do a great job of absorbing it, and also holding on to it very well.

Lost in a SOG said:

This is just azadirachtin though which will be in much lower concentrations in the spent cake than in these products.

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I have access to cannabis harvests from several years in the same soil. I can tell the difference in aza levels in the cannabis from the year neem meal was used, and in the next 2-3 years of harvests without it. The soil is clay based, and the problems from neem/aza are definitely present in the cannabis. I know I can safely use the cannabis grown in the soil this year and last year. I'd have to double check with the grower how many years of harvests I won't touch. Again, this is clay based soils and they hold things longer than most other soils. (I think glyphosate is up to 20 years?)

Lost in a SOG said:

Allergic reactions for various reasons can never be ruled out and if its possible that the plant is accumulating this terpenoid then its being delivered directly to the lungs which no study will have ever tested the specific toxicological effects of.. Also the ancients never smoked neem so its use in TCM/Ayurveda is a bit irrelevant even if it mostly proves the overall safety of using neem. Just trying to not be biased even though my instinct in this case wants to be.

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This is true, it has not been studied. I've had the same reactions from edibles made with aza cannabis, though it was again heated for decarboxylation. Make me wonder if a room temp decarb would bypass this issue for me. Not that I want to find a way to ingest this stuff without noticeable symptoms.

Lost in a SOG said:

Somone dump a load of Neem in their soil and get a lab test on the flowers.. if there are no chemicals from neem in it then there's no chance its the culprit..

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This is what's needed. People with money, grows and access to lab testing. All I really need is one grower to prove what I know already. The more the merrier for everyone else.

I've yet to see any aza breakdown studies on cannabis tissue. We haven't seen any cannabis tissue tests with neem meal in soil, or neem oil sprayed in veg, certainly none which cover breakdown over time.

I'd like to see HID vs. LED vs. Outdoor breakdown times. Comparisons in the same lighting conditions with different temps and humidity. I grow cool and dry, so a lot of things don't happen the way 'most' people say they will.

#Neemgate is still a thing then? I hadn't noticed this thread until just now. Poor OP who just wanted to know when and how much neem cake to add to his soil. Whole can of worms opened with the usual suspects.

For what it's worth I'm a huge fan of both neem oil and neem cake. I use neem oil for all of my IPM foliars as well as top dressing neem cake meal directly onto my soil during several applications through a plant's growth. I think saying that neem cake having IPM properties is bullshit as I've personally seen fungus gnats walking along it or sitting on it no sweat. Regarding top dressing it I typically apply 1 teaspoon when they are in a gallon or smaller container and otherwise 1 tablespoon when they are in a larger than 1 gallon container, topdressed and watered in. I ALWAYS see an explosion of fungal growth on the meal. I've never had any problems from using neem nor has anybody who has smoked my homegrown. I will continue to use it.

The only thing I can think of as an analogy for the whole CHS thing is Gluten. At this time I don't buy into the CHS ordeal BUT IF there is something to it I imagine it goes along the same lines. Some people are extremely allergic, some are intolerant, the majority aren't harmed and could give a shit less. This is coming from somebody though that has done zero research past my own anecdotal evidence/findings.

This is my fucking jam

Its a dynamic accumulator alright BUT does it absorb polyphenols family chemicals such as terpenoids from soil as this is rare in plants from what i have seen and can gather from research. Dynamic accumulators only appear to absorb macro and micro nutrients. Its a big difference between nutrients and secondary metabolites from other plant.

It also would only take a plant or two to test. Id do it myself as well as a lot of comparisons but im screwed for space. The lab test wouldnt cost that much especially if the lab was contracted to look for these chemicals. Aza isnt the only possible culprit but i challenge someone to show me evidence of a bioaccumulator accumulating compounds like this from soil. I cant.

Lost in a SOG said:

Its a dynamic accumulator alright BUT does it absorb polyphenols family chemicals such as terpenoids from soil as this is rare in plants from what i have seen and can gather from research. Dynamic accumulators only appear to absorb macro and micro nutrients. Its a big difference between nutrients and secondary metabolites from other plant.

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Considering neem meal, and soil drench aza products kill mites dead, it would be rather non-logical to think cannabis does not absorb it just fine. My personal tests were as conclusive as night and day. Soil drench and spray at 2 weeks of flower had the same negative reactions. I was VERY glad to have additional clean plants that run, other than the control clones. I couldn't touch the tainted stuff without issues.

Lost in a SOG said:

It also would only take a plant or two to test. Id do it myself as well as a lot of comparisons but im screwed for space. The lab test wouldnt cost that much especially if the lab was contracted to look for these chemicals. Aza isnt the only possible culprit but i challenge someone to show me evidence of a bioaccumulator accumulating compounds like this from soil. I cant.

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Repeat my test. 2 strains. 1 clone from each is soil drenched with an aza product, 1 clone from each is sprayed at week 2 of flower, 1 clone from each are untreated. I would like to add neem meal amended soil and neem oil treated plants, especially plants religiously sprayed with neem till week 2 of flower. I've had the same effects from them all, so why stick with just the extracts, right?

The lab tests will show what I already know. I can understand being skeptical of someone saying this on the net, there are a lot of bozos out there who talk about subjects without research. I rarely speak out of my ass these days, and I take care to only speak on subjects I have a lot of familiarity and experience. This happens to be a subject I've investigated thoroughly. Wait and see.

Lost;

All plants can systemically uptake azadirachtin from the soil and foliarly (I think on foliar). There may be exceptions I'm not aware of.

Neem cake is used primarily for nutrients and not as an insecticide (AFAIK). It is a byproduct of oil production so the level of azadirachtin in it is very low [as you said] but present. I've read one study and one abstract indicating a negative impact on a lot of soil microbial species. This has always been a worry to me but KIS did some direct microscopy which seems to counter this.

I am going to try getting a free copy of the full article and post both manana.

Douglas - you simply cannot base a conclusion of retained residuals on how a subject feels. When I see lab testing I'll give some credence.

Microbeman said:

Douglas - you simply cannot base a conclusion of retained residuals on how a subject feels.

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Spoken by someone who has zero awareness of how excruciatingly painful the 'feel' is on this. I assure you, your lack of awareness on this issue is drastically hampering your ability to understand. To me, it's like you're asking if the room is dark after you turned out the lights... then asking me to pull out lab equipment to verify there REALLY isn't any light there. Seriously...

Microbeman said:

When I see lab testing I'll give some credence.

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You'll also see I'm correct, and fully 'qualified' to tell people to use full notification for their users when growing with neem meal.

Douglas.Curtis said:

Spoken by someone who has zero awareness of how excruciatingly painful the 'feel' is on this. I assure you, your lack of awareness on this issue is drastically hampering your ability to understand. To me, it's like you're asking if the room is dark after you turned out the lights... then asking me to pull out lab equipment to verify there REALLY isn't any light there. Seriously...

You'll also see I'm correct, and fully 'qualified' to tell people to use full notification for their users when growing with neem meal.

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Look at the end of the day neem in all of its forms is the most used product on cannabis, the most used drug on Earth by far. If neem was to blame than CHS would be more widespread, and even if you had done any kind of experimenting, which you didn't, others would have experimented as well, or at least noticed CHS symptoms. As of right now CHS isn't even a confirmed disease. There seems to be a problem that a hot shower cures. Sounds psychosomatic to me.



The fact you're not willing to concede that it may be due to a human allergy or sensitivity means you truly do not have a scientific mind set. You're jumping to conclusions based off of who knows what. Those links you posted point to nothing.

Douglas.Curtis said:

Spoken by someone who has zero awareness of how excruciatingly painful the 'feel' is on this. I assure you, your lack of awareness on this issue is drastically hampering your ability to understand. To me, it's like you're asking if the room is dark after you turned out the lights... then asking me to pull out lab equipment to verify there REALLY isn't any light there. Seriously...

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yeah...why stuff up a good fairy tale with FACTS...

Douglas.Curtis said:

You'll also see I'm correct, and fully 'qualified' to tell people to use full notification for their users when growing with neem meal.

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no...you will see i am correct the vast majority of people who use cannabis grown with neem every day have no ill effects at all...

and i am qualified to to say you are wrong...

lets admit it Dougy...you are a freak that is the 1:1,000,000 who is affected negatively by neem used in cannabis production...and this qualifies you to say neem used in cannabis makes ME sick...it is not something that makes everyone or many people ill...

still waiting on your take of those who have CHS WITHOUT using neem??

Normally I don't even read your hate. Merry Xmas.

ozzieAI said:

lets admit it Dougy...you are a freak that is the 1:1,000,000 who is affected negatively by neem used in cannabis production...and this qualifies you to say neem used in cannabis makes ME sick...it is not something that makes everyone or many people ill..
still waiting on your take of those who have CHS WITHOUT using neem??

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This was lame the last time you posted it, and I posted the link to the study showing you were wrong. Go do everyone a favor and find the link and re-post it here. I'm going to bed and don't have time.

There are a possible 2.7M daily tokers who have cyclical vomiting syndrome (CVS) issues with cannabis. The rate continues to climb as more areas legalize. In 7 years I have personally met almost 2 dozen individuals who had CVS issues. Almost 2 dozen people who have had zero issues since using clean cannabis. In addition, I have talked with at least a few people a month online for 7 years now. I have run across 2 people who have issues with THC and CVS, regardless of how clean the cannabis is. One does use high CBD, very low THC cannabis in extremely small daily doses. Any higher amounts of THC and it causes CHS issues.

Having read through the science behind CHS, and talking with people who do have this condition, I'm convinced true CHS represents a small fraction of cannabis related CVS cases. The majority is proving out to be aza/neem related. The VAST majority.

Get some new material or take your hate somewhere else. Your posts are not winning you any points in this thread.

The majority is proving out to be aza/neem related. The VAST majority.

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Douglas.Curtis said:

Normally I don't even read your hate. Merry Xmas.

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you read every word you freak....your abusive messages are proof of that...

Lol well it still goes in the maybe pile of stoner science for me as i said until someone has the cohones to get some real science involved because this should be super duper easy to prove..

There are many other potentials in most cases such as aflatoxins and heavy metals.. And as i said a biological intolerance to something imbalancing the system which can be for a multitude of reasons.. man probably hasnt rolled up and inhaled herbs quite so religiously like we do before the present era. And also we are categorically not all made in the same factory so to speak.. genetics play a HUGE factor in liver detoxification enzyme production and neurotransmitter clearance/receptivity and then the knock on build up of toxic metabolites in people will also make them sick.. after the elimination pathways have become blocked, this can and does happen.. i suppose we dont want to admit smoke is inherantly poisonous, the extra work on the kidneys from the formaldehyde alone is pretty rough.

Also we know ganja is a dynamic accumulator and will grab nasties like chromium, lead, mercury, cadmium etc etc..how many ounces of toxic weed for how many years before your nervous system starts going spastic.. personally i dont trust most of these cases arent through poor growing and drying practices.

Im afraid its not true that you cant have enough of a "good" thing, that also comes down to genetics and general health, too much clean healthy water can make you sick. Thats my last thoughts on neem and CHS in this thread.. they might be worth maybe not..

I don't know about other folks but... if I suspected something wacky I damn well would have conducted my own experiments with soil and plants. There is simply too much dis-information on the NET and, this thread is no different.

Lost in a SOG said:

Lol well it still goes in the maybe pile of stoner science for me as i said until someone has the cohones to get some real science involved because this should be super duper easy to prove..

There are many other potentials in most cases such as aflatoxins and heavy metals.. And as i said a biological intolerance to something imbalancing the system which can be for a multitude of reasons.. man probably hasnt rolled up and inhaled herbs quite so religiously like we do before the present era. And also we are categorically not all made in the same factory so to speak.. genetics play a HUGE factor in liver detoxification enzyme production and neurotransmitter clearance/receptivity and then the knock on build up of toxic metabolites in people will also make them sick.. after the elimination pathways have become blocked, this can and does happen.. i suppose we dont want to admit smoke is inherantly poisonous, the extra work on the kidneys from the formaldehyde alone is pretty rough.

Also we know ganja is a dynamic accumulator and will grab nasties like chromium, lead, mercury, cadmium etc etc..how many ounces of toxic weed for how many years before your nervous system starts going spastic.. personally i dont trust most of these cases arent through poor growing and drying practices.

Im afraid its not true that you cant have enough of a "good" thing, that also comes down to genetics and general health, too much clean healthy water can make you sick. Thats my last thoughts on neem and CHS in this thread.. they might be worth maybe not..

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Look, saying genetics plays a role in it totally takes out the toxicity aspect of the thing. Case and point: VX nerve gas doesn't have a genetic variable in it. Its 100% fatal. If something has a genetic component of it, you may as well classify it as an allergen. That is my thoughts on the whole CHS and cannabis argument. But more realistically it is probably something that is being used as pesticide, fertilizer, or herbicide. High nitrates are more likely a cause for vomiting than THC or CBD. But we shall see soon enough.

As far as neem, well, I'll make a tea out of it using 4-5 grams of it. Steep for 10 minutes with lemon added for hte taste. I'll do that and not have a lick of nausea. I've done it daily for a month before when I got lyme's. No nausea, even with lymes and antibiotics.

Maybe I will post a video of me smoking a blunt with neem leaf in it as well. But that taste is so harsh. I don't want to cough that bad.

My sister is a nurse in New York City. She says she's encountered cannabis and CVS. No mention of neem anywhere. But also she said its been about a handful of people in her 5 years at the hospital so far. So if you're saying that its affect about 10% of all cannabis users and most likely more, in a city like New York it would be wayyy more than a handful over the course of five years.


Perhaps you are displaying some schizo symptoms in this interpretation. You are articulate, I will grant you that. But perhaps you are corrlating things that aught not be correlated and disregarding things that are not bolstering your narrative. For instance, the over 5,000 years of documented use of neem/azadiractin in India and Aryuvedic medicine (but that has already been mentioned in this thread, so why would you acknowledge it now).

Either way, D.C. this thread makes me hope that you will seek some type of mental help.

This study indicates a negative impact on the soil microbial population, with the exception of certain N fixing bacteria. It seems that even small doses can have an inhibitory effect.

"Impact of azadirachtin, an insecticidal allelochemical from neem on soil microflora, enzyme and respiratory activities"

The study PDF can be downloaded here;
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._microflora_enzyme_and_respiratory_activities

Much of the work reported on the effect of azadirachtin
on soil microbial population and its activities is in terms of
amendment of soil with neem oil cake or neem seed cake,
which contains only trace amounts of azadirachtin alkaloid.
Additions of organic amendments have improved
the bacterial population (Mukherjee et al., 1991; Gopal
et al., 2001). However, we observed that application of
azadirachtin (extracted from neem seed kernel) granules
significantly reduced the bacterial and fungal populations
up to a 15 day period. Many workers have earlier confirmed
the anti-microbial property of azadirachtin (Coventry
and Allan, 2001), besides anti-fungal activity too
(Govindachari et al., 2000).

Among the function specific microbial communities, the
free living nitrogen fixer Azotobacter was observed to proliferate
to very large number in the soil treated with the recommended
dose of azadirachtin, with the highest
population of 107 · 102 cfu/g soil achieved by 90th day,
while other doses had similar effect as control (data not
shown). In this aspect, the effect of azadirachtin was parallel
with that of neem oil cake, i.e. in stimulating the numbers
of diazotroph Azotobacter (Pandey and Singh, 1990;
Gopal et al., 2001). The chemoautotrophic nitrifying bacteria
Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter were strongly suppressed
by the azadirachtin at all the doses, with five times being
extremely detrimental (data not shown).

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There are other supportive studies one can find by following citations and recommendations.

Effect of Fertilizers and Neem Cake Amendment in Soil on Spore Germination of Arthrobotrys dactyloides
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3774886/

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There are other studies indicating that certain soil microbes are actually enhanced by the use of neem cake. This makes sense, since it is high in nutrients. This also supports what KIS has reported in observing an enhancement of microbes by direct microscopy, the species not being identified.

In this study species of Trichoderma were enhanced;

Evaluation of Trichoderma compatibility with fungicides, pesticides, organic cakes and botanicals for integerated management of soil borne diseases.....

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5d06/16b3822e866d7d80fd520b3176781785ae95.pdf

Another interesting thing was observed that, neem oil (5%), neem
leaves extract (Azadirata indica) (10%), wild sorghum
leaves extract (10%), neem cake, castor cake and mustard cake extract (10%) enhanced the growth of Trichoderma.

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In general this supports the principle of living soil growing (and microscopy) that it is not just the volume of soil microorganisms that count but the functional consortia and heirarchy.

Specifically if a grower is considering the use of neem cake then she must weigh the pros and cons and evaluate the reasons for using it.