Gas Analysis

Wondering if anyone here is working with an RGA or gas MS? Have been barking up a bunch of the wrong trees for this application. Cascade says their RGA is unsuitable for oven/distillation gas cannabinoid and terps analysis.

Of course they exist, but are there any within reach to mere mortals? That will work for this application?

An Rga is for analyzing the gases flowing to the vac pump. It won't do cannabinoid analysis. For terp and cannabinoid analysis gc or hplc is what you should be looking at.

RB

powerbong2000 said:

Wondering if anyone here is working with an RGA or gas MS? Have been barking up a bunch of the wrong trees for this application. Cascade says their RGA is unsuitable for oven/distillation gas cannabinoid and terps analysis.

Of course they exist, but are there any within reach to mere mortals? That will work for this application?

Click to expand...

We did studies using the Inficon that Cascade uses, to see what was coming off, but didn't try to tune it for fine detail.

The Inficon field support engineer said they had a system that was better suited, but we never got the opportunity to try it out.

What are you trying to achieve?

The short answer is, at least initially, for oven gas terps.

I am at current researching all aspects of hash oil extraction and distillation, with the end intent of designing analytic automation control systems.

Trying to come at this from the ground up, so I designed an extraction system that just went into fabrication, so in the meantime I am building a short path setup, and researching WFE (and designing goofy magnetic coupling cartridges for different film distribution methods) all with the intent of getting my head around the processes enough to know where to look to start coming up with some analytic feedback process logics.

Would like to use an RGA for feedback to heating/vac control on ovens and distillation gases before they hit the condenser. Would like to use GS/MS for the big process feedback loop, starting with seedling tissue analysis for line culling and choice, separation applications, and end product analysis.
For under $120,000 (LOL) And to answer your question....yes, I am an idiot.
And yes....I have no idea what I am doing....

basically....I am trying to get my wife to divorce me....

I guess I would have to us GC on the distillation vapor?

powerbong2000 said:

The short answer is, at least initially, for oven gas terps.

I am at current researching all aspects of hash oil extraction and distillation, with the end intent of designing analytic automation control systems.

Trying to come at this from the ground up, so I designed an extraction system that just went into fabrication, so in the meantime I am building a short path setup, and researching WFE (and designing goofy magnetic coupling cartridges for different film distribution methods) all with the intent of getting my head around the processes enough to know where to look to start coming up with some analytic feedback process logics.

Would like to use an RGA for feedback to heating/vac control on ovens and distillation gases before they hit the condenser. Would like to use GS/MS for the big process feedback loop, starting with seedling tissue analysis for line culling and choice, separation applications, and end product analysis.
For under $120,000 (LOL) And to answer your question....yes, I am an idiot.
And yes....I have no idea what I am doing....

basically....I am trying to get my wife to divorce me....

Click to expand...

The Inficon will tell you what is coming off and when.

I use a SRI 8610c Gas Chromatograph with heated injector in conjunction with the Peak Simple software. I use this system with a MXT-500 column and standards from Restek/Cerilliant to quantify cannabinoids in my buds/extract before sending it for lab testing. I also use the system for qualitative terpene analysis using a MXT-Wax column, I don't quantify the terpenes but it does show if your sample has more or less of whatever terpenes you test for. The final thing I use the system for is residual solvent analysis of my extracts with a 3' Hayesep D column and calibration gas cylinders.

This system is cheap and effective. Its not quite as specific as a GCMS, but it was good enough for residual solvent analysis in the nuclear pharmacy I worked at so I figured its more than enough for basic cannabis testing.

Thanks man, have been looking into that unit. Good to hear this it is effective.

Man.....thanks for the Restek link. So much good info. This one is really interesting.

http://www.restek.com/Technical-Res...ary/Foods-Flavors-Fragrances/fff_FFAN2045-UNV

powerbong2000 said:

Man.....thanks for the Restek link. So much good info. This one is really interesting.

http://www.restek.com/Technical-Res...ary/Foods-Flavors-Fragrances/fff_FFAN2045-UNV

Click to expand...

This is essentially how I test for our terpene profiles, although I do it for qualitative purposes rather than quantitative.

Symbiotic AD said:

I use a SRI 8610c Gas Chromatograph with heated injector in conjunction with the Peak Simple software. I use this system with a MXT-500 column and standards from Restek/Cerilliant to quantify cannabinoids in my buds/extract before sending it for lab testing. I also use the system for qualitative terpene analysis using a MXT-Wax column, I don't quantify the terpenes but it does show if your sample has more or less of whatever terpenes you test for. The final thing I use the system for is residual solvent analysis of my extracts with a 3' Hayesep D column and calibration gas cylinders.

This system is cheap and effective. Its not quite as specific as a GCMS, but it was good enough for residual solvent analysis in the nuclear pharmacy I worked at so I figured its more than enough for basic cannabis testing.

Click to expand...

We have the SRI 8610 for our in house use as well, but use an outside lab with GCMS and HPLCMS for anything critical.

As you note, it tells us what we need to know, for the purpose we use it, and when we move the next step up to include the mass spectrometer, the price goes geometric.

The other advantage of using the lab with the peachy keen and expensive equipment for the critical analysis, is that ours comes with brothers who know how to operate it and have a doctorate.

Yet another has been hydrocarbon analysis, which is somewhat specialized, so I use a different forensic lab for that purpose, with folks experienced in those procedures and having a doctorate.

I've twice mentioned a doctorate, and it of course doesn't guarantee that the person isn't a novice, but it greatly increases the odds of experience and training, especially if it is somehow related to running lab equipment, vis a vis a doctorate in electrical engineering.

A major problem we currently face locally, is no uniformity between labs, because they haven't been regulated, but that is changing with legislation and regulations. Those regulations will include standards for personnel training and proficiency.

Tongue in cheek, as a dispensary supplier, whose business success depends on the highest numbers possible for your product, and one lab says you stuff is gooder than the other, which lab will you choose to do the bulk of your business with?

If one finds mold and the other doesn't? If one finds pesticides and other doesn't? How about residual solvent?