To those who have grown tropical Sativas in a tropical environment and grown the same strain in a nontropical outdoor or indoor environment, what differences have you noticed over time? Most interested in hearing how the high and taste was affected by the more temperate/indoor environment.
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Tropical Sativas Grown in Nontropical Environments
- Thread starter Lolo94
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Hello, I live at 42 N, thanks to the microclimate here the ice and the snow arrive very late, rarely in December, usually January, when everything is harvested,the real problem is fog and rain especially with low temperatures, but for now it has always gone well (although probably in suitable climates they grow better ...)
I have grown tropical sativa like zamaldelica, destroyer,oldtimer haze x thai, Honduras,nigerian and others...
I have not noticed changes in flavor / smell or flowering time, for these needs many, many years of selection ....
I have grown tropical sativa like zamaldelica, destroyer,oldtimer haze x thai, Honduras,nigerian and others...
I have not noticed changes in flavor / smell or flowering time, for these needs many, many years of selection ....
picalin
Member
I think, it is not quite appropriate to speak about indoor here, because in indoor we ourselves create an environment of growing, and the ideal environment is as close as possible to nature.
Adaptation to the new environment in theory is a very long process, It is really interesting to hear about the real experience of adaptation and its timing!
Peace to you garden!
Adaptation to the new environment in theory is a very long process, It is really interesting to hear about the real experience of adaptation and its timing!
Peace to you garden!
Not sure i agree that adaptation is a long term process. Here's why: I was able to grow the same IBL in 3 separate Hawaii microclimates. 1)Higher elevation, wet, and cooler. 2) hot and fairly wet and 3) warm and wet. A friend also grew the same strain in a hot and dry microclimate.
There were slight differences in looks and in effect between all 4 microclimates in the same generation of seeds grown. Hot and dry and hot and fairly wet both produced a slightly lighter green narrowest leaf. The high was up (sativa strain ) but felt a little heavier with not as clean of a comedown. Warm and wet produced a a slightly darker leaf and similar higb. Higher, cooler and wet produced the cleanest high, darkest and widest leaf. By any modern standard, all leaves would considered narrow. The differences were slight but noticable. Multiple plants were grown at each location by growers experienced with the strain.
Wish i had the opportunity to grow it in an area that was high and dry, but never did. The Big island of Hawaii has all but one of the earths microclimates. Alot of different expressions are possible especially over the generations.
W
Water-
You are seeing epigenetic differences.
true environmental adaption requires gene mutations that increases the likely hood of successful reproduction in the new environment.
when those genes are stabalized in a population then it has "adapted" to the environment
Not disagreeing with you, i just don't agree with the fact that it would take a long time to create a true breeding strain from an eestablished inbred line expressing microclimate specific traits. One thing to remember is that depending on the strain, some microclimates will allow for 3-4 seasons in one year. Several years would be sufficient to create another true breeding inbred line.
W
Water-
You seem to be reffering to Human selection for traits that you would then inbreed to create more offspring that carries those traits.
I was reffering to natural selection induced by environmnetal stress.
I was reffering to natural selection induced by environmnetal stress.
PDX Dopesmoker
Active member
I had a cross I made of an African plant do this grinspoony thing on one of five females, all the side branches never branched once they started flowering and just grew out long stalks instead, someone said it had to do with growing tropical genetics at 45.5ºN.
It was tasty weed, really nice sweet & sour citrusy flavors.
I crossed a better behaving sister of that one with a really good diesel male and those seeds didn't do anything weird when I grew them last summer except for the massive display of hybrid vigor.
It was tasty weed, really nice sweet & sour citrusy flavors.
I crossed a better behaving sister of that one with a really good diesel male and those seeds didn't do anything weird when I grew them last summer except for the massive display of hybrid vigor.
I guess adaptation wasn't the proper word to use. The influence of the environment in expressing certain desirable traits would be more appropriate. I have reproduced this particular strain twice in a tropical environment and haven't seen any noticable differences from when first acquired when grown in the same microclimate. I dont owe this to my special selective breeding skills but rather to the fact that its stable inbred line grown in an environment that expresses desirable traits.
W
Water-
right on..
here is a better explanation of what we are discussing if anyone is interested:
"Epigenetics, as a simplified definition, is the study of biological mechanisms that will switch genes on and off. What does that mean? Well, if you are new to this whole thing, we first need a quick crash course in biochemistry and genetics before learning exactly what is epigenetics:
Cells are fundamental working units of every human being. All the instructions required to direct their activities are contained within the chemical deoxyribonucleic acid, also known as DNA.
DNA from humans is made up of approximately 3 billion nucleotide bases.
There are four fundamental types of bases that comprise DNA – adenine, cytosine, guanine, and thymine, commonly abbreviated as A, C, G, and T, respectively.
The sequence, or the order, of the bases is what determines our life instructions.
Within the 3 billion bases, there are about 20,000 genes. Genes are specific sequences of bases that provide instructions on how to make important proteins – complex molecules that trigger various biological actions to carry out life functions.
In other words, DNA gives the instructions for various functional proteins to be produced inside the cell — this process is also known as the central dogma of molecular biology.
Epigenetics affects how genes are read by cells, and subsequently whether the cells should produce relevant proteins. For example, the COL1A1 gene in DNA is present in all types of cells but “expressed” in skin cells to produce Type 1 Collagen proteins.
Here are a few important points about epigenetics:
Epigenetics Controls Genes.
Nature — epigenetics is what determines a cell’s specialization (e.g., skin cells, blood cell, hair cell, liver cells, etc.) as a fetus develops into a baby through gene expression (active) or silencing (dormant).
Nurture — additionally, environmental stimuli can cause genes to be turned off or turned on.
Epigenetics Is Everywhere. What you eat, where you live, who you interact with, when you sleep, how you exercise, even aging – all of these can eventually cause chemical modifications around the genes that will turn those genes on or off over time. Additionally, in certain diseases such as cancer or Alzheimer’s, various genes will be switched into the opposite state, away from the normal/healthy state.
Furthermore, there have been indications that some epigenetic changes can be inherited.
Epigenetics is the study of heritable changes in gene expression (active versus inactive genes) that do not involve changes to the underlying DNA sequence — a change in phenotype without a change in genotype — which in turn affects how cells read the genes. Epigenetic change is a regular and natural occurrence but can also be influenced by several factors including age, the environment/lifestyle, and disease state
Here’s an analogy that might further help you to understand what epigenetics is, as presented in Nessa Carey’s Epigenetics Revolution. Think of the human lifespan as a very long movie. The cells would be the actors and actresses, essential units that make up the movie. DNA, in turn, would be the script — instructions for all the participants of the movie to perform their roles. Subsequently, the DNA sequence would be the words on the script, and certain blocks of these words that instruct key actions or events to take place would be the genes. The concept of genetics would be like screenwriting. Follow the analogy so far? Great. The concept of epigenetics, then, would be like directing. The script can be the same, but the director can choose to eliminate or tweak certain scenes or dialogue, altering the movie for better or worse. After all, Steven Spielberg’s finished product would be drastically different than Woody Allen’s for the same movie script, wouldn’t it?"
https://www.whatisepigenetics.com/what-is-epigenetics/
here is a better explanation of what we are discussing if anyone is interested:
"Epigenetics, as a simplified definition, is the study of biological mechanisms that will switch genes on and off. What does that mean? Well, if you are new to this whole thing, we first need a quick crash course in biochemistry and genetics before learning exactly what is epigenetics:
Cells are fundamental working units of every human being. All the instructions required to direct their activities are contained within the chemical deoxyribonucleic acid, also known as DNA.
DNA from humans is made up of approximately 3 billion nucleotide bases.
There are four fundamental types of bases that comprise DNA – adenine, cytosine, guanine, and thymine, commonly abbreviated as A, C, G, and T, respectively.
The sequence, or the order, of the bases is what determines our life instructions.
Within the 3 billion bases, there are about 20,000 genes. Genes are specific sequences of bases that provide instructions on how to make important proteins – complex molecules that trigger various biological actions to carry out life functions.
In other words, DNA gives the instructions for various functional proteins to be produced inside the cell — this process is also known as the central dogma of molecular biology.
Epigenetics affects how genes are read by cells, and subsequently whether the cells should produce relevant proteins. For example, the COL1A1 gene in DNA is present in all types of cells but “expressed” in skin cells to produce Type 1 Collagen proteins.
Here are a few important points about epigenetics:
Epigenetics Controls Genes.
Nature — epigenetics is what determines a cell’s specialization (e.g., skin cells, blood cell, hair cell, liver cells, etc.) as a fetus develops into a baby through gene expression (active) or silencing (dormant).
Nurture — additionally, environmental stimuli can cause genes to be turned off or turned on.
Epigenetics Is Everywhere. What you eat, where you live, who you interact with, when you sleep, how you exercise, even aging – all of these can eventually cause chemical modifications around the genes that will turn those genes on or off over time. Additionally, in certain diseases such as cancer or Alzheimer’s, various genes will be switched into the opposite state, away from the normal/healthy state.
Furthermore, there have been indications that some epigenetic changes can be inherited.
Epigenetics is the study of heritable changes in gene expression (active versus inactive genes) that do not involve changes to the underlying DNA sequence — a change in phenotype without a change in genotype — which in turn affects how cells read the genes. Epigenetic change is a regular and natural occurrence but can also be influenced by several factors including age, the environment/lifestyle, and disease state
Here’s an analogy that might further help you to understand what epigenetics is, as presented in Nessa Carey’s Epigenetics Revolution. Think of the human lifespan as a very long movie. The cells would be the actors and actresses, essential units that make up the movie. DNA, in turn, would be the script — instructions for all the participants of the movie to perform their roles. Subsequently, the DNA sequence would be the words on the script, and certain blocks of these words that instruct key actions or events to take place would be the genes. The concept of genetics would be like screenwriting. Follow the analogy so far? Great. The concept of epigenetics, then, would be like directing. The script can be the same, but the director can choose to eliminate or tweak certain scenes or dialogue, altering the movie for better or worse. After all, Steven Spielberg’s finished product would be drastically different than Woody Allen’s for the same movie script, wouldn’t it?"
https://www.whatisepigenetics.com/what-is-epigenetics/
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By accident I grew a tropical Narrow leaf type last year at 47 degrees N and I was amazed by it's resiliency and mold resistance. I was able to harvest finished flowers in late November.
You can see the mature resin but you can also see the weather damage. The deep purple color is probably a reaction to the cold. She faced a month of pounding rain and near freezing temperatures. The buds are small and leafy, the smoke is harsh. She has a nice fruity smell that hints at something special in her natural tropical environment. I need to sample her soon, I've been letting her cure in the jar so I can smoke a joint smoothly.
She didn't start flowering until the last couple weeks of September when the main run plants were finishing up and the autumn rain was starting. The highest temperatures during flowering would be low 60 degree F and the average would be in the 45-50 degree range. Most cannabis plants would have rotten to pieces.
I wish I'd had viable pollen to make seeds. The fruitiness and mold resistance were worthy traits to pass on. This is how our modern hybrid strains came to be, there's still much potential for crossing tropical varieties with early finishing types. With careful selection and a bit of luck I could see a very nice strain developing. This is a project for indoor growing it'd take too long outdoors. I'm surprised more breeders aren't focusing on these types of projects.
You can see the mature resin but you can also see the weather damage. The deep purple color is probably a reaction to the cold. She faced a month of pounding rain and near freezing temperatures. The buds are small and leafy, the smoke is harsh. She has a nice fruity smell that hints at something special in her natural tropical environment. I need to sample her soon, I've been letting her cure in the jar so I can smoke a joint smoothly.
She didn't start flowering until the last couple weeks of September when the main run plants were finishing up and the autumn rain was starting. The highest temperatures during flowering would be low 60 degree F and the average would be in the 45-50 degree range. Most cannabis plants would have rotten to pieces.
I wish I'd had viable pollen to make seeds. The fruitiness and mold resistance were worthy traits to pass on. This is how our modern hybrid strains came to be, there's still much potential for crossing tropical varieties with early finishing types. With careful selection and a bit of luck I could see a very nice strain developing. This is a project for indoor growing it'd take too long outdoors. I'm surprised more breeders aren't focusing on these types of projects.
@Water. Thanks for the link and explanation.
@TheReverend. Nice looking plant! Based on the conditions you described, im really amazed it did so well.
I'll be starting an indoor grow of my IBL in late spring. Seeds are 8 years old but have been well preserved. Have reproduced the strain every 9 years. Havent yet found an outdoor location in my current temperate environment.
@TheReverend. Nice looking plant! Based on the conditions you described, im really amazed it did so well.
I'll be starting an indoor grow of my IBL in late spring. Seeds are 8 years old but have been well preserved. Have reproduced the strain every 9 years. Havent yet found an outdoor location in my current temperate environment.
Malato
Member
Those look awesome man
Nice looking plants. I grew a few similar grinspoony plants in the jungle in the early 90s. They were by far the most mildew resistant strains(probably obvious due to the small number of leaves). We were given a bunch of seeds ( a modern day variety pack) that were grown out to see what would do best and a few plants showed similar grinspoony phenos. No clue what strain they were. Never took photos back then unfortunately.
Haven't ever grown a tropical sativa in a tropical environment, but have grown several tropical landraces in our mediterranean climate here in the Pacific NW.
There's a claim that the quality of the terpenes and end product is negatively affected by rain, which is far from what I experienced. I think our cool winter weather coupled with blasting sun stresses the plants out and increases the quality. Despite being constantly exposed to cold rains for literally months, the flavor on this 100% pure tropical landrace sativa was outstanding:
Cold stress made some of the Nepali landrace sativas turn purple, but not sure you can classify this as a tropical sativa. Interestingly, while it has relatively high rot resistance, it's still more susceptible than some of the tropical sativas:
The main challenge here is getting them to reach peak maturity before rotting. Some years, you can go until early January with certain strains and they'll finish, but other years, they'll rot in late October from multiple luke warm (or luke cold rather!), rainy days. It all depends on the weather.
There's a claim that the quality of the terpenes and end product is negatively affected by rain, which is far from what I experienced. I think our cool winter weather coupled with blasting sun stresses the plants out and increases the quality. Despite being constantly exposed to cold rains for literally months, the flavor on this 100% pure tropical landrace sativa was outstanding:
Cold stress made some of the Nepali landrace sativas turn purple, but not sure you can classify this as a tropical sativa. Interestingly, while it has relatively high rot resistance, it's still more susceptible than some of the tropical sativas:
The main challenge here is getting them to reach peak maturity before rotting. Some years, you can go until early January with certain strains and they'll finish, but other years, they'll rot in late October from multiple luke warm (or luke cold rather!), rainy days. It all depends on the weather.
PDX Dopesmoker
Active member
Those Grinspoon type spears sure do dry out faster after the rain than dense buds do. Since I was growing outdoors and trying to maximize how much sunlight I could absorb from the sky I also liked how far those spear stuck out into the sunlight, but whatever extra sun it got didn't end up translating into weight, that plant was a little bit lighter than the others. I also enjoyed taking a few sticks and just putting them on a rolling paper, easier joint I ever rolled, its almost like rerolls grew on the plant.
Unfortunately I only got one seed off the Grinspoon pheno one. Even worse, I grew out five seeds and they were all females and they were my last 5 seeds because I'd stupidly given too many of the others away, so I lost that strain. I hope someone else inbred them, maybe the strain will come back to me from someone else's stash one day. All I've got left of it is this awesome citrusy diesel cross with mega hybrid vigor, dense buds and tons of frost, woe is me.
PDX Dopesmoker
Active member
Which kind of pig?
Wild boar. They really like the pot plants and in many cases strip them to the stem. They do alot of damage to the forest in general. Once the plants got bigger (6 feet +) , they tended to leave them alone.
