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Silicic Acid...what kind?

research sand.

Did you catch this bit from only ornamental?

"Even if you did pay more attention in chemistry, chances are very high that you had not a single word about silica chemistry. Even organic chemist students learn more about silicon chemistry (used for example as protection groups) than about silica chemistry . It's a world of its own and pretty weird and poorly understood."
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
Sand is often "silica" but the completely insoluble crystalline kind of SiO2 termed quartz instead of the partially/possibly soluble amorphous type (the "real" silica). On the other hand, some sand is composed of phyllosilicates which may, upon degradation, liberate silicic acid in small quantities; these aren't "true" silica either. Though, they are likely the main source of silicic acid in water (ground water, rivers, lakes...) but a poor source of Si for potted plants. Not saying clay-rich river sand isn't a great additive with many benefits ;) .
 

Avenger

Well-known member
Veteran
:tiphat: dizzlekush
OSA28 said:
CAN'T I MAKE MY OWN WITH SOMETHING LIKE AGSIL 16H FOR WAY CHEAPER?

This question is coming up a lot. This isn't an attack on AGSil 16H--simply an explanation of the differences. There are several forum posts talking about how easy it is to make your own silicate product. You can but it won't be in plant available form, here's why...

So here's some good nerdy stuff my chemist team put together. Seriously nerdy. In summary, chemistry theory is often different than practical application. While much of what the IC thread says is accurate, it's not the entire picture. Hopefully this clears up a bit.

...mumbo jumbo chemistry bullshit used to try to make it sound like they know what they are talking about more than dizzlekush...

In summary, AGSil16H is not just a “cheaper version of the same thing.” Nor is any other off-the-shelf potassium silicate or silica dioxide product. These compounds eventually will undergo transformation in proper conditions—like the acid environment created by certain microbial exudates. In longer term soil applications this potassium silicate can be effective. Much like crude oil versus gasoline, silicates must be “refined” before they can be used.
OSA28 said:
PLANT AVAILABLE SILICON
Compared to other national brands, OSA/28 contains the highest level of Plant Available Silicon. "Soluble Silicon" is the laboratory measurement of silicon in the form of monosilicic acid—the only plant available form. Higher concentration means more plant-strengthening silicon in every drop.

We knew OSA/28 was clean and strong but were curious where we stood next to other brands. So we analyze all brands on our dime to get past the BS hype and bragging that growers are sick of. Download the original lab reports below to see for for yourself.

To understand these numbers, you need to understand the testing procedure. Our laboratory partner, Thornton Labs in Tampa, developed the only nationally accepted test for Plant Available Silicon. Thornton developed the procedure in partnership with AAPFCO, the organization that decides acceptable fertilizer label claims. The procedure is highly involved, taking five days to complete, compared with single day silica/silicate mineral analysis.

This five day process mimics the same chemical mechanism plants use to absorb monosilicic acid—it is essentially a plant simulator! So while the resulting number is not the best indicator of how much silicon is in the bottle, it does tell us precisely how much silicon a plant is able to absorb from the product. There are no other recognized tests that gives this number.
link to quote source

Here is a soluble silicon analysis on a HOME MADE concentrated stock solution of AgSil 16H. Something OSA28 goes into detailed mumbo jumbo chemistry bullshit on how it is not plant available, yet they conveniently did not have it analyzed on their dime. Or include it in their comparison.

The stock solution was prepared by diluting 560 grams of AgSil 16h in RO water and bringing the final volume to one gallon. This calculates to a concentration of 3.6587% Si weight/volume (~3.37% Si weight/weight). As you see the results for the analysis says 3.25% soluble silicon using the same AAPFCO testing method.

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Here is a link to all the other lab reports.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7735566&postcount=39

and the updated table for comparison.
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don't believe the hype
 

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los_escondidos

New member
Anyone have experience using Cutting Edge Bulletproof SI? It's compromised Silicon Dioxide, I am currently using it & have seen positive results, just don't have the scientific data to back it up lol.. Any thoughts & opinion? Thank you!
 

Avenger

Well-known member
Veteran
Unlike most silica supplements, it is derived from pure silicon dioxide (versus a salty potassium-silicate.)

They are looking for suckers to fall for their marketing language just like the rest of the vultures.

From Bulletproof Si MSDS they use sodium silicate mixed with a bit of kelp and maybe amino acids.
 

catalyte

Active member
Veteran
They are looking for suckers to fall for their marketing language just like the rest of the vultures.

From Bulletproof Si MSDS they use sodium silicate mixed with a bit of kelp and maybe amino acids.

Great info you have linked in your sig.

So regarding the results in the link, tell me if i'm correct: Fasilitor has minimal benefits say over the PermaGuard DE ?? I can't even believe that people were paying hundreds of dollars for a bottle of that stuff when DE is almost as good for a fraction of the cost!!!:biglaugh:
 

Avenger

Well-known member
Veteran
Fasilitor is 8.7% chloride, 2.5% calcium, 1.2% total silicon
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G.O. Joe

Well-known member
Veteran
I seem to recall that it was known for little to no effect on pH and ppm. Is there a new formulation?
 

Avenger

Well-known member
Veteran
Thats an analysis of Fasilitor, actually imported Regulator, as it comes out of the bottle, so diluted at 0.6 ml to a gallon of working solution, I imagine it does have little effect on pH, EC or much of anything.

I have no idea if it is a new, old or recycled formula.
 

Unk_OG

Member
Anyone know what's up with the Aptus tech line via phone and email? I bought a bottle of Priscilla tour that went bad after four weeks, it got clumpy and gooey. It was always stored correctly and never ever contaminated by me. I have emailed them four times in the last 3 weeks and called more times than I can remember. I'm in the United States and Eastern standard time, I thought their time zone was pretty similar. However, I am up for work at 3 AM and don't go to bed until 9 PM in the evening, I have called at all different hours of the day and night and all I get is a message to leave a voicemail, which they never respond to. I paid $60 for a small bottle and it ended up causing branches to break off of my plants. Not Happy! I may try one of the other brands. Can anybody suggest one? Thanks for any help.
 

Unk_OG

Member
In the above post I meant to say Fasilitor, not "Piscilla tour" hahahahahaha. Sorry was using the voice option on my phone rather than typing.
 

Avenger

Well-known member
Veteran
another product added to the list. Grow-Sil 99.9% biogenic amorphous silica (46.7% Si). 6.28% soluble silicon using the JAOAC, Vol. #96, #2, 2013 method approved by the AAPFCO. Manufactured in the USA by SioTex corp.

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