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How long does it usually take to distill?

BigJohnny

Member
Dirty hoses can do this. Gum rubber absorbs more terps than silione or PTFE and of course, stainless bellows. Try replacing your hoses.

they're basically brand new except for being used earlier this week..... I will be switching to stainless eventually though.

Perhas I should go back to the wire reinforced hose and see what happens.... It never caused me problems even when it was loaded with shit and had pools of terps and junk in it.
 

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Why do you need an expensive vacuum controller? Don't you just run the pump continuously?

The J-KEM DVR-200 is basically for preventing bumping during solvent recovery.

"Digital Vacuum Regulator ∙ 120 Vac ∙ Catalog# DVR-200

Availability: In stock.

$1,365.00

Quick Overview

An ideal instrument for laboratory vacuum regulation.

Connect the regulator to any vacuum pump or vacuum source and then to any piece of equipment to regulate pressure in most cases to ± 1 torr.

A pressure ramp feature evacuates equipment at a user defined rate to eliminate bumping due to solvent degassing or over-evacuation.

The vacuum regulator is ideally suited for large volume distillations, rotary evaporators and vacuum chambers.

Recover > 99% of solvent from rotary evaporators

Features:

NO Mercury

100% digital pressure entry and control

Wetted parts are 100% stainless steel and Teflon

Vacuum ramping feature eliminates bumping

USB port and free software for PC control

Resists: All organic solvents Acids Bases Water

Not recommended for small volume distillations or applications which involve a continuous purge with gas, these applications are better performed by J-KEM’s Precision Vacuum Regulator, Model DVR-1000.

Two Styles of Regulators to Choose From

Model DVR-200

Designed for continuous vacuum sources, such as oil-filled vacuum pumps, aspirators, or systems that are “always on”, like in-house vacuum systems. The DVR-200 regulates pressure by opening and closing a valve that separates the vacuum source from the system being evacuated. In most cases, the DVR-200 is the best choice."

https://www.jkem.com/vacuum-and-pressure/standard-regulators/dvr-200-vacuum-regulator


Keep the vacuum line short, simple, clean, and above all, tight.

And spend the big money on the best mantles and controllers. :biggrin:

Can you see when your controller turns on and off? Imagine boiling pasta on a gas range, and trying to regulate the boil by turning the flame quickly from high to low, with pauses.

An advanced distillation controller regulates the power the heater receives, before attempting to regulate the temperature by turning the circuit on and off. If you have a 1,000 watt mantle, and dial in the power for a specific volume in the flask at a specific temperature, let's say 850 watts, this will keep the temperature controller from slamming the flask with 1,000 watt pulses.

Think again of the pasta, with the flame adjusted to produce the perfect boil rate, you then set a control to turn off the gas flame if the temperature goes too high, and back on to the same regulated power level as soon as it drops in temperature.
 

BigJohnny

Member
Why do you need an expensive vacuum controller? Don't you just run the pump continuously?

The J-KEM DVR-200 is basically for preventing bumping during solvent recovery.

"Digital Vacuum Regulator ∙ 120 Vac ∙ Catalog# DVR-200

Availability: In stock.

$1,365.00

Quick Overview

An ideal instrument for laboratory vacuum regulation.

Connect the regulator to any vacuum pump or vacuum source and then to any piece of equipment to regulate pressure in most cases to ± 1 torr.

A pressure ramp feature evacuates equipment at a user defined rate to eliminate bumping due to solvent degassing or over-evacuation.

The vacuum regulator is ideally suited for large volume distillations, rotary evaporators and vacuum chambers.

Recover > 99% of solvent from rotary evaporators

Features:

NO Mercury

100% digital pressure entry and control

Wetted parts are 100% stainless steel and Teflon

Vacuum ramping feature eliminates bumping

USB port and free software for PC control

Resists: All organic solvents Acids Bases Water

Not recommended for small volume distillations or applications which involve a continuous purge with gas, these applications are better performed by J-KEM’s Precision Vacuum Regulator, Model DVR-1000.

Two Styles of Regulators to Choose From

Model DVR-200

Designed for continuous vacuum sources, such as oil-filled vacuum pumps, aspirators, or systems that are “always on”, like in-house vacuum systems. The DVR-200 regulates pressure by opening and closing a valve that separates the vacuum source from the system being evacuated. In most cases, the DVR-200 is the best choice."

https://www.jkem.com/vacuum-and-pressure/standard-regulators/dvr-200-vacuum-regulator


Keep the vacuum line short, simple, clean, and above all, tight.

And spend the big money on the best mantles and controllers. :biggrin:

Can you see when your controller turns on and off? Imagine boiling pasta on a gas range, and trying to regulate the boil by turning the flame quickly from high to low, with pauses.

An advanced distillation controller regulates the power the heater receives, before attempting to regulate the temperature by turning the circuit on and off. If you have a 1,000 watt mantle, and dial in the power for a specific volume in the flask at a specific temperature, let's say 850 watts, this will keep the temperature controller from slamming the flask with 1,000 watt pulses.

Think again of the pasta, with the flame adjusted to produce the perfect boil rate, you then set a control to turn off the gas flame if the temperature goes too high, and back on to the same regulated power level as soon as it drops in temperature.


I'm only using the controller for my rotary evaporator but it's a real pain in the ass to switch it out every time I want to distill, so I just leave it hooked up and switch it to full vacuum when I distill.
 

flatslabs

Member
Just curious, but you are using the same pump for your rotovap? Are you using a cold trap? Because if not your oil is getting full of ethanol and thats probably why you are having issues now (you weren't winterizing previously I recall).

Get a Welch 2034 or a watervac for your rotovap.
 
I got to fucking around with it lastnight, and went from vac pump -> brass bulkhead through table -> gum rubber hose to vac controller -> gum rubber hose from vac controller to cold trap -> cold trap to my Omega DVG4 and I capped off the other side of the gauge.
Try and test the pump only and see if you can get it to 10 micron or less. You may have to clean and possibly recalibrate your vacuum gauge.
The brass connectors often use NPT fitting which need teflon tape to seal. They also only seal good once. After that the fittings are wore and you have to use more teflon tape and force each time.

I hadn't been cleanign my oil very frequently, but earlier this week I flushed the shit out of the pump by pouring oil into the inlet and flushing it through the system to the bottom drain plug.
This oil was horrible and nasty, so I kept flushing it until the oil came out clear, ran it for a bit and flushed it again.... basically went through 4L of oil to flush it out.
You might need to get your pump cleaned and possibly seals replaced. The terpenes will stick the the inner surfaces of the pump and are basically impossible to fully flush out. Your pump should be testing below 10 microns with only the gauge. Use two or more vacuum traps. The big dewar style are great for large solvent volumes but poor at scrubbing the last bits of vapor. Use one or two immersion style traps after to catch any remaining vapor from reaching your pump. You should basically never have to change your oil. Keep adding traps and colder temps until you get there.
There's a tremendous difference in volatility from the terpenes to cannabinoids and a lot of vacuum needed so you really have to go overboard to catch it all.
 

BigJohnny

Member
Just curious, but you are using the same pump for your rotovap? Are you using a cold trap? Because if not your oil is getting full of ethanol and thats probably why you are having issues now (you weren't winterizing previously I recall).

Get a Welch 2034 or a watervac for your rotovap.

yes I'm using the same pump and a dewar style cold trap.


Try and test the pump only and see if you can get it to 10 micron or less. You may have to clean and possibly recalibrate your vacuum gauge.
The brass connectors often use NPT fitting which need teflon tape to seal. They also only seal good once. After that the fittings are wore and you have to use more teflon tape and force each time.

You might need to get your pump cleaned and possibly seals replaced. The terpenes will stick the the inner surfaces of the pump and are basically impossible to fully flush out. Your pump should be testing below 10 microns with only the gauge. Use two or more vacuum traps. The big dewar style are great for large solvent volumes but poor at scrubbing the last bits of vapor. Use one or two immersion style traps after to catch any remaining vapor from reaching your pump. You should basically never have to change your oil. Keep adding traps and colder temps until you get there.
There's a tremendous difference in volatility from the terpenes to cannabinoids and a lot of vacuum needed so you really have to go overboard to catch it all.


That answers my question about what those little tiny traps are for lol..... I guess I'll have to look into getting one or two of those.
 

BigJohnny

Member
One thing I'm definitely having a problem with is my condenser clogging up and stopping the boiling process. I'm running the condenser at 60 degrees and can't really go any higher so what am I doing wrong there?
 

Old Gold

Active member
I'll say exactly what you don't want to hear......probably leaks....
The more oxidized the sample is, the more "stable" it seems to be. Now factor in your slower flow rate, and clogging cam surely happen.

You should not have serious clogging issues at 60C in your condenser (though this is variable depending on the drip pathway and size/shape of all your glass)
 

BigJohnny

Member
I'm sitting at 173 microns right now, bumped the temp up to 230 from 220, and it's flowing better where I can see the vapors collecting and running into the condenser but it isn't boiling over into the condenser. It's dripping nicely now. The head temp is reading 181.7

Gonna have to keep chasing leaks and pressure problems until I hammer it all out I guess.
 

BigJohnny

Member
I've been getting good results recently, and the vac level seems to be at least decent anyway, but another question I have is; How do you tell when you're finished distilling and how much oil is usually left behind in the boiling flask?

I know it'll turn a darker color but at what point do you really say "yup, this is for sure 100% finished" and begin shutting down the distiller?
 

BigJohnny

Member
I've been getting good results recently, and the vac level seems to be at least decent anyway, but another question I have is; How do you tell when you're finished distilling and how much oil is usually left behind in the boiling flask?

I know it'll turn a darker color but at what point do you really say "yup, this is for sure 100% finished" and begin shutting down the distiller?
 

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
ICMag Donor
Veteran

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mobin

Member
Picture of how to keep it simple stupid,

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8112965&postcount=2

The top of the column is plugged, no refluxing above the condenser exit.

No head temperature reading.

good for terps, okay for solvents, too tall for cannabanoids.

i mean you'll get some, at a tremendous cost.

unless your vac is better than average...which in case you'd be onto better shit for the money.

hot cheap setup? a jacketed distillation adapter with a bump trap below it.
 

BigJohnny

Member
This setup is better for recovering solvent. That many vigs and lack of insulation is not going to be very efficient at distilling cannabinoids.


how do you know this? Like what is it about the amount of vigs and height that makes one head better for cannabinoids than another? Why is the height an issue?
 

G.O. Joe

Well-known member
Veteran
There is a column of molecules exerting pressure on the pot and there is no way to overcome this. And for fractional distillation to work it has to be done in a certain careful and slow way, especially in high vacuum. Spinning band is the only viable high vacuum fractionation better than simple distilling twice, but it will still take a long time in comparison. Bump traps are unnecessary if you avoid bumping.
 

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