neverforget4/20
Member
Who here has confirmed that your plant absorbed Si as a result of your application? Before and after sap analysis? ANY ANALYSIS?
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Silica in flowering?
- Thread starter maimunji
- Start date
clown baby
Active member
As far as anecdotal evidence, I've always noticed stiffer and more brittle stems when adding potassium silicate. Less need to stake them, but easier to snap. Branches have a lot more "give" when i dont use it.
neverforget4/20
Member
I think ive observed that the branches feel denser, heavier, more solid. But im not sure. There are so many variables in my grow. I cant tell.
Ive tried , agsil 16, protekt, osa28, crossover, DE, equisetum. I've grown great plants with sturdy stems using each of them. Im not convined that the added Si matters that much if your soil is right.
Ive seen the graph that shows agsil provides the most plant available Si. Like the earlier poster mentioned Agsil isnt useful if you cant take potassium.
Quantrill is knowledgeable about silicon::mj maybe he will visit with some comparative data.
power puff
Active member
silicic acid is the only form of silica that roots are able to absorb.
potassium silicate is not bioavailable for the plants....at least not in the cannabis lifecycle.
potassium silicate is not bioavailable for the plants....at least not in the cannabis lifecycle.
neverforget4/20
Member
Agsil, a potassium silcate product, is widely used as a source of plant available silica. I dont know the biochemistry but i know that its efficacy is well established in turf and other crops.
Admittedly, analysis of cannabis plant tissues reveal very little concentrations of Si (compared to a Si hog like rice). But then one has to wonder--why does our earth crust have an incredible high concentration of Si (in all forms)?
That said, I do know that Si applications (both foliar and root applications) will thicken the cell walls of plants (measured by higher concentrations of Si and metal cations found in treated plants) and thicker walls make it harder for a plant to fall prey to disease and vector attacks. This bit of info we all should should know and accept as fact.
Whether it makes a bud harsher or not, hard to say--but I think the harshness is probably due to "metal accumulation" from excess Potassium Silicate treatments; afterall potassium is part of the alkali metal club.
That said, I do know that Si applications (both foliar and root applications) will thicken the cell walls of plants (measured by higher concentrations of Si and metal cations found in treated plants) and thicker walls make it harder for a plant to fall prey to disease and vector attacks. This bit of info we all should should know and accept as fact.
Whether it makes a bud harsher or not, hard to say--but I think the harshness is probably due to "metal accumulation" from excess Potassium Silicate treatments; afterall potassium is part of the alkali metal club.
D
Dioni
Were cannabis "not" a dynamic/hyper accumulator, this statement would be correct.
This tells me you've never had super clean cannabis before. Again, no offense. I didn't either, the first 5 years I grew. Was quite a shock when my "better n' anything I came across" turned out to be barely 'decent,' when compared to truly clean cannabis.
I stand by my statements, they were formed from clear research.
[/QUOTE]That's funny...I can grow outdoors in a completely natural environment without adding anything but water and comparing finish product with what I accomplish indoors adding everything the plant needs and have completely dried flower testing for all mineral and chemical compounds to be very consistent and no spikes in anything except plant size and finished weight. Have a nice day.
neverforget4/20
Member
You know this how?
To accept your assertion "as fact" an mj relevant citation should be provided.
Hemp/cannabis is very good at remediating contaminated soil--even at Chernobyl's nuclear accident in 1986, and more recently at Fukushima.
The Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) has been desperately seeking ways to clean up toxic radiation spewing from the Fukushima Daiichi site. Now, a natural plant may be able to save the nuclear power plant: cannabis.
Using plants to clean up toxic soil is known as phytoremediation. Two members of the mustard seed family are usually used in phytoremediation. However, cannabis has been proven to be just as effective, if not more so, at absorbing toxic metals from soil as other phytoremediation plants.(1)
The fact that marijuana can absorb environmental pollutants isn’t exactly news. Hemp’s resilience to contaminated soil is well studied. In 1995, the Polish Institute of Natural Fibres released a study which demonstrated that hemp was able to withstand high levels of heavy metals without inhibiting its growth.(2)
http://www.fukushimawatch.com/2015-10-07-can-marijuana-save-the-fukushima-prefecture.html
So think about that as we add various metals to our precious herb.
The Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) has been desperately seeking ways to clean up toxic radiation spewing from the Fukushima Daiichi site. Now, a natural plant may be able to save the nuclear power plant: cannabis.
Using plants to clean up toxic soil is known as phytoremediation. Two members of the mustard seed family are usually used in phytoremediation. However, cannabis has been proven to be just as effective, if not more so, at absorbing toxic metals from soil as other phytoremediation plants.(1)
The fact that marijuana can absorb environmental pollutants isn’t exactly news. Hemp’s resilience to contaminated soil is well studied. In 1995, the Polish Institute of Natural Fibres released a study which demonstrated that hemp was able to withstand high levels of heavy metals without inhibiting its growth.(2)
http://www.fukushimawatch.com/2015-10-07-can-marijuana-save-the-fukushima-prefecture.html
So think about that as we add various metals to our precious herb.
Ahh so many to choose....let's try this one--
Silicon is absorbed from soil as monosilicic acid [(Si(OH)4] by plant
roots, transported throughout the plant tissue via transpiration and
deposited in plant epidermal cell walls as phytoliths [6,10]. Deposition
of Si in the plant tissue enhances the strength and rigidity of cell walls
and thus increases the resistance of plants to various stresses. The
silicified cells also provide useful paleoecological and archaeological
information known as plant opal or phytoliths [11]. In addition, silicon
in plants has been reported to enhance tolerance to both biotic and
abiotic stresses in several crop plants [12].
The protective effect of silica to plants against insect herbivores
is related to the level of its accumulation and polymerization in plant
tissues with highest levels positively being correlated with increased
resistance [4,13-15]. In addition, the level of Si in plants significantly
influences insect herbivores distribution, with predominance of insect
species being more susceptible to areas where most host plants are
less silicified [16]. However, exact mechanisms of action of silica on
herbivorous insects are still unclear, though most studies point to use
of both physical and/or chemical resistance mechanisms [17,18].
Mechanically, deposition of silica in plant epidermal cells provides
a physical barrier against insect’s probing and feeding or insect’s
penetration into plant tissues. For example, silica mediated stem borer
resistance to Eldana saccharina (Walker) (Lepidoptera: Crambidae)
on sugarcane or Chilo suppressalis Walker (Lepidoptera:Crambidae)
on rice has been partly associated with delayed stalk penetration by
larvae as a result of leaf and stalk silification [19-24]. Silica may also
alter the relative palatability of leaves by increasing leaf abrasion, which
increases wearing of insects’ mandibles and therefore physically deter
larval feeding [25,26].
On the other hand, silica in plants has been shown to modulate the
production and accumulation of herbivore defensive allelochemicals
including phytoalexins, lignin and phenolics in plant tissues [13,27-
30]. Similarly, silica is also reported to elicit the production of plant
defensive enzymes including peroxidase, polyphenoloxidase and
phenylalanine ammonia lyase which are induced in response to plant
damage by herbivorous insects [21,31,32]. These enzymes have been
implicated in a number of plant defenses processes such as lignification
and/or production of antiherbivore plant metabolites [33].
https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/silica-in-insectplant-interactions-2161-0983-1000e125.pdf
Hope this helps...like I said, sooooo much out there. Now, is it "mj" related? Not specifically, but it certainly is indirectly, since cannabis is not exempt from the norms of the general plant population.
clown baby
Active member
SiO2 + 2 H2O ↔ H4SiO4
Potassium silicate is absolutely bioavailable. Just add water! As long as nobody here is dry-dusting their plants with potassium silicate, they'll be just fine.
clown baby
Active member
google "potassium silicate application study" Tons of university research has been done on this. Actual controlled studies.
You probably won't get much real data on stoner forums. Mostly anecdotal evidence at best. People parroting misinformation they read elsewhere at worst.
neverforget4/20
Member
Ive see a few corn and turf studies and i did google the term you suggested. I didnt see any cannabis studies. i doubt that Si supplementation where Si is already well supplied is beneficial. On depleted soils and soils that are regularly mined by plants Si applcation seems wise.
But what about soil that is fresh, or freshly reammended? In my garden i cant say that ive seen agsil outperform topdressing with equisetum or incorporating rock dust.
CB, is it your practice to routinely use potassium silicate?
neverforget4/20
Member
No actually it's unrelated to the topic. Nothing there characterizes Si uptake in cannabis. Also the question isnt whether Si is beneficial. The question is whether it's useful to apply Si amendments to solid soils. And whether the effects you all are claiming to observe is caused by Si amendments.
"since cannabis is not exempt from the norms of the general plant population." silly BS since the kingdom plantae is fantastically diverse along many dimensions including nutrient uptake. The "norms" GTFOH.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Exactly. Not only does it uptake Si, cannabis is capable of directly binding it to tissue.
Cannabis is a dynamic/hyper accumulator, putting it in the class of a large number of hyper/dynamic accumulating flowers. This information applies directly, even more so than for cucumbers or other common vegetable plants.
clown baby
Active member
Agreed on the above. But that's the same with any nutrient in soil, yes? Like when you first pot into a hot soil, you don't need to supplement any fertilizer.
As far as agsil versus rock dust, I couldn't tell you. I'm in hydroton, so i need something water soluble. I foliar feed potassium silicate, agsil 16h. Super cost effective, and the plants grow sturdier, albeit more brittle.
neverforget4/20
Member
Yes! My observation is that with fresh balanced soil and active microbiology Si is available for uptake throughout the life cycle. Si is concentrated in a few of my inputs. On my soil lab analysis I am going to ask for an Si test. It seems like the consensus is that about 100ppm is the spot for good utilization. A before and after test would reveal how much Si has been mined over the course of a grow and whether my inputs sustained the recommended level.
In answer to the OP's question the response "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]First week of flower only" is know-it-all stoner BS.[/FONT]
If media is Si deficient cannabis plants will benefit from properly using the correct Si product at any time to correct the deficiency.
Dude, you need improve your reading comprehension!
I wrote this--
To which you wrote this--
And of the hundreds of Si studies out there, I cut and pasted from one--to which you replied as follows:
Guess you can lead a horse to water--
Do you know when a "cannabis only" research on Si will be published? I don't.
So until I find one, what is wrong in referring/using the next best thing available--Si research on other "dicot" plants from the "general plant population" that have similar growing characteristics?
When I can't get what I want, then I will use "the next best thing". I guess you do will "nothing"--when you don't get EXACTLY what you want (cannabis only research).
I wrote this--
To which you wrote this--
And of the hundreds of Si studies out there, I cut and pasted from one--to which you replied as follows:
Guess you can lead a horse to water--
Do you know when a "cannabis only" research on Si will be published? I don't.
So until I find one, what is wrong in referring/using the next best thing available--Si research on other "dicot" plants from the "general plant population" that have similar growing characteristics?
When I can't get what I want, then I will use "the next best thing". I guess you do will "nothing"--when you don't get EXACTLY what you want (cannabis only research).
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neverforget4/20
Member
Very imaginative. But i see at least 2problems 1- "fact" doesnt mean what you think.
2-the "water" that youre leading a horse to is kool aid.
Let's try it this way--are you saying my "Si assertions" are false? And that cannabis is exempt from enjoying the benefits of Si applications? As that seems to be your position---since you are disagreeing with me.
Like I said, second best is better than nothing--not preaching anything, not stirring shit up, just applying a simple skill called "critical thinking" to a situation where there appears to be no "definitive conclusion".
Such as this query--exactly how much Si does a cannabis plant "want" as opposed to "require" or "need". Very different concepts (or are we stuck on that reading comprehension thing again?). As most of us know, amount of Si detected in a plant tissue--is not the same as the amount required for the plant to "grow" (amount of Si available in the grow medium).
And then we have the "Plant Available Si" arguments.....lol.
