only 33% cloning success rate help please!

Leathermonster · Oct 31, 2012

So, i am using plugs and a tray with a dome under a 150w hps and rooting gel of course but my issue is that the clones will die and when i pull them out the ends look limp and melted. I think they have too much water cause i can squeeze a ton of water out of the plugs the dead clones were in. I dont add that much water to the tray underneath but im thinking i shouldnt water the tray at all but keep them moist from the top. My buddy thinks i should use rockwool cubes over a layer of perlite and i think i agree. I have 20 clones set up that are 4 days old and would like to up my success rate now instead of next time around. Any help?

joe guy · Oct 31, 2012

Just barley keep thhem moist i put my plugs in plastic dixi cups and top water with medicine syringe just the little one they onlly need like half tea spoon just under the 2.5ml mark..and lil water sprayed on the dome and in the bottom thats y i use the cups to keep them away from.excess water. You want that bitch to search for.the water make her work for it or shes just gonna get lazy .. And try the dutch master replicator cheap as shit 12 for 2 fl oz.. It suucks the air bubble out of the stem kinda like burping the lil baby and a micro climate stablizer... Told someone on diffrent thread that my wife took two cuts 3 days ago and they are both still strong... And keep in mind all she dose is smoke it no experience whats so ever gardning... Thats the true test of any product let a complete noob try it if it works its good shit...good luck with ur babies bro...

joe guy · Oct 31, 2012

Oh yeha and four days in u should be safe to gently squeez the excess water out of ur plugs since thre shouldnt have too many if any roots yet..and add some of ur gel u have now and dilute it a lil then reMOISTEN them not drench em with ur diluted gel just incase u saturated the existing gel out of the plug...

smoke1sun · Oct 31, 2012

I would make sure my moms are healthy. This was 1 thing i did to increase my success rate.

Don2Cups · Oct 31, 2012

make them work harder, try not to water them until they use up all the water in the cube/plug whatever your using. id rather let them wilt from not enough water than wilt from to much water...
i usually only average 2 waterings for my clones until they root (10-14 days) in just straight coco in a solo cup. average 95% success always.

medicalmj · Oct 31, 2012

Leathermonster said:
So, i am using plugs and a tray with a dome under a 150w hps and rooting gel of course but my issue is that the clones will die and when i pull them out the ends look limp and melted. I think they have too much water cause i can squeeze a ton of water out of the plugs the dead clones were in. I dont add that much water to the tray underneath but im thinking i shouldnt water the tray at all but keep them moist from the top. My buddy thinks i should use rockwool cubes over a layer of perlite and i think i agree. I have 20 clones set up that are 4 days old and would like to up my success rate now instead of next time around. Any help?

First, I use flouro's over a humidity dome. I have used both RW and Root Riot @ 99.9%. The pre-soaked cubes are placed into dome and the dome is NOT lifted for a week or if/when the cubes look dry (usually no less than 5-7 days). When using the Root Riots it may be less than 7 days as RW wont dry as quick. After that 7+- days I will water cubes w 6.5 ph solution w Vitamin B and/or a clone solution. Haven't noticed any diff between. After this initial lifting of the dome check moisture level and add solution when needed, which should be at most one or two more times. Make sure there is no substantial standing water in tray. After an additional 5-7 days roots will/should be poppin. So give those girls 10-14 days to see roots. If you have damping off, somethings wrong.

Only other variable to consider is your cutting process. Care to describe?

wildgrow · Oct 31, 2012

Ive lost cuttings from other people, but not a clone that Ive cut yet. When I cut, I put them directly into a cup of water. After Ive taken all the cuts from 1 plant (at a time), I dunk them in rooting powder (being sure to scoop up a healthy wad of it) and jam them about 1/2 way into the plugs.
They go in a seedling tray, get completly soaked and then covered. I add water to the bottom of the tray, but not enough to touch the pods. If they dried out (they probably wont), those roots will go looking for that water.
I mist the dome and the clones once every 1 - 2 days. Within 10 days (generally) everything is rooted.
And this all goes on under a shoplight in a closet.

Good luck.

Treetroit City · Oct 31, 2012

Or use a wicking method to control the moisture in the cubes. Works for me 100%

MIway · Oct 31, 2012

It's a fine line between maintaining higher moisture levels to induce rooting... And too much to induce rotting. But rot kills it and ends the endeavor... Too little and you just take an extra week or two to complete, but they are all alive. Why Fuck with the line and the rot...?

Off healthy moms, cut em small with extra stem and put em in a cup of water for a day, near the light but very weak levels. Net day, dip em in ur hormone and place into the pre soaked plugs... Place on the fringe of the light with it raised high. No dome, no spraying... No watering... And it will stay moist for a week even with low rh (30's), though mid 70's temp helps. Water with one squirt per plug off a cheapo turkey baster every 5 days til they root... Then more frequently. Use a light (. 5ec) solution with roots excel.

It's hard to rot anything like that... Meaning next to zero chance of failure, just might take 2-3wks.

cirog · Nov 1, 2012

I tried the plugs and then the cubes and had horrible results, similar to your success rate. I used to ph water and get all serious about what I was doing. Then I read this thread.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42847&highlight=walmart+cloner

BEST METHOD EVER IN MY OPINION

I seriously have above 95% success now. Im sure some of that is due to experience, but alot of it is due to this 5 dollar ice tray and a 5 dollar bag of vermiculite. Under ten bucks and I have easily cloned 100 plants with about a quarter of the vermiculite left. The best part is that you seriously do nothing for 10 days, then they are ready.

RugerBaby · Nov 1, 2012

If you dont mind spending a little money. I would buy an aeroponic cloner. I saw ebay has some for less than $100. Plus you save money on not having to buy plugs, domes, hell, you can root em with straight water, and no rooting hormones. Good luck.

BTW, I use one, and its very rare that a clone doesn't root.

Leathermonster · Nov 2, 2012

medicalmj said:
Only other variable to consider is your cutting process. Care to describe?

Im not really experienced when it comes to that other than what Ive seen in a few videos. I try to go down 4 nodes on a branch but sometimes I will go down three if the cutting will be too long. I use a clean razor blade and cut at a 45 degree angle, then I trim off anything that is hanging on the stem to make it smooth. i put it in rooting hormone then ito the plug. I was using rootech' then i recently ran out and tried dutch master replicator. I also just tried to root a cutting from the outdoor plant that i was able to reveg using rockwool cube sitting on perlite i soaked in water. Any tips on using rockwool sitting on perlite would be greatly appreciated. It seems there are as many methods as there are growers so Im trying to put together bits and pieces of what i read and try what sounds good.

joe guy · Nov 2, 2012

One more for ya guys if u want 100 percent check my thread "my go at air layering" serious shit mom one of those bitchs up u can take as big or little cut as ur heart desires i fucked around and did a 1 foot cut lol after roots in to a pot and fliped.. No joke.. If ur intersted chexk it out... Just as above said there are as many methods as there is growers i told ya couple ways and the air layer is a good way to keep ur numbers down if ur a med grower.. Just cause thers roots its still atached to one plant.. U cant start 5 huge cuts when there ready to flip cut them off and u got 6 plants well under ur limit.. When ur mom grows out start another 5 and guess what u still have 6 plants. The trick is timing good luck with finding your special way.. And dont rember if i said it or anyone else yet but make sure u scar at least one area at the bottom of the cut to help induce rooting in that spot...

joe guy · Nov 2, 2012

Almost forgot if it dosnt root start over lil above or below ur orignal scar mark and keep ur plug cotton ball what ever u end up using moist... like i said if it dries out try another spot it will not die just crust up and get really thick... My first try was hundred percent...

Keep goin · Nov 2, 2012

Woha...hold on...

150w HPS for clones!!???

That's the first thing I would change. Drop down to a CFL or small flouros, side light from your veg, etc. No way you need that much light!!

When you take your cuts if you are using rooting hormone..dip asap..or I like to have a cup of water that I put the cuts in right away. I also like to strip any of the lower leaves that you are going to take off by hand...just grab em and pull gently downward...it will strip little pieces of the stem down and off...opens em up a bit.

I recently got sick of dealing with the heat in my ez-cloner and just started floating the neoprene pucks (which you can buy separate) in a 5 gal bucket of water with an air line in the bottom. Working just fine...no spraying needed, no dome needed...ez peazy!!

Check out the sticky on cloning for any further ideas. There are many different ways to go. Pick one you like.

I think as soon as you drop that light...1/2 your problems will be solved.

DJXXPLATINUM · Nov 2, 2012

I USE ROOT RIOTS AND AM HIGH 90S SUCCESS RATE BUT I ALWAYS HAVE TO BUY PLUGS...CK OUT THIS CLONER I JUS ORDERED..$60..LOOKS AWESOME AND INEXPENSIVE...DJ
http://www.ebay.com/itm/180817326146?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

NorCalZero · Nov 2, 2012

You can go to home depot or lowes and get a clip-on bulb reflector for less than $10, then get a 6400k cfl on ebay or from local hydro store, don't pay more than $20....I use rockwool cubes with no water underneath, 1.5" is my preferred but 2" are just as good, soak them with water and give a little squeeze so they aren't sopping wet, then use razor or sharp scissor to take cut, dip in gel for 10 seconds and insert into cube. Your biggest 2 leaves on the bottom, trim about 1" off the edges, clones should root in 7-10 days. Using dome, do not spray, without dome spray lightly once daily. Check rockwool moisture by touching and/or looking for color change, it will lighten when drying (If you use dome it will not need water very often). Below pic was 7th day sour boggle, 8th day even more roots and into it's new coco home...

Leathermonster · Nov 2, 2012

Keep goin said:
Woha...hold on...

150w HPS for clones!!???

That's the first thing I would change. Drop down to a CFL or small flouros, side light from your veg, etc. No way you need that much light!!

When you take your cuts if you are using rooting hormone..dip asap..or I like to have a cup of water that I put the cuts in right away. I also like to strip any of the lower leaves that you are going to take off by hand...just grab em and pull gently downward...it will strip little pieces of the stem down and off...opens em up a bit.

I recently got sick of dealing with the heat in my ez-cloner and just started floating the neoprene pucks (which you can buy separate) in a 5 gal bucket of water with an air line in the bottom. Working just fine...no spraying needed, no dome needed...ez peazy!!

Check out the sticky on cloning for any further ideas. There are many different ways to go. Pick one you like.

I think as soon as you drop that light...1/2 your problems will be solved.

The reason IM using the 150w hps is because it was free. I just bought a darkroom and i plan on keeping the 150w to put in there, and it will be over 4 feet away from the tray im putting cuttings in. I am having better success this round mainly becuase i majorly cut down on the amount of water i was using. I will be taking much, much smaller cutting from here on out becuase it make perfect sense that less foliage means more effort can be put into creating roots. I guess i was thinking that more leaf area would mean more water absorption through the leaves to keep it alive but what do i know Im a noob at this.

What is your opinion on foliar feed with a highly diluted amt of nutes before rooting?

sso · Nov 2, 2012

here´s how i do it.

straight into soil, plastic sodabottle as a humidity dome (or whatever.)

no gel or powder.

preferring blue lights to clone. (you need very little light, 23w cfl is really overkill. when im using a humidity chamber and the 600w hps is the only light i have available 24, i place Another plant on top of the humidity dome so the clones only get vague light from the sides.)

(best cloning i ever did, was under the canopy, Off to the side on a 400w mh grow, 3 days quickest clone.) (so basically only getting the little reflection it could get from the mh, not direct light and even not that much reflection, since the wall the clones were at, was without any reflective material.(bare brown wood actually.))

i water the soil, only once and i make sure it can evaporate normally.

i do not water again, till it has roots (or if it dries out too quick and there are no problems.)

it has to seek the water (or if there is water, the water has movement or oxygen.)

Keep goin · Nov 2, 2012

Leathermonster said:
The reason IM using the 150w hps is because it was free. .

What is your opinion on foliar feed with a highly diluted amt of nutes before rooting?

That's NOT a good reason!! Given that reasoning...if you got a 1000w HPS for free you would clone with it...!?? You need very little light...23w CFL is MORE than enough.

sso had some good ideas for "under the canopy", off to the side, etc.

That 150w is definitely usable for "other" things...but you don't need a jet airplane to go to the mailbox... Match the tool (light) to the job.

Glad to hear you are having more luck with less water. You will find that with larger leaf sets you can actually trim them in half to cut down on transpiration rates...more effort from the cut will go into the rooting.
You CAN spritz with a light foliar if you want to.

I don't like having to, which is why I do what I do (don't like to need to play with domes, spraying, etc)...but wanting to is different. I would recommend a seaweed mixture of some sort, Maxicrop soluble (dry) is super easy to use and works well...don't really need fert in the foliar, until roots establish.

Good Luck...keep goin!

only 33% cloning success rate help please!

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