By far and without a doubt, the least expensive conventional, synthetic fertilizers

*mistress* · Nov 24, 2010

overmyhead said:
Well, to cut down on mixing etc I switched out my moms (time to get new ones anyway) and am doing them in
5 gal smart pot type pots
75% sunshine mix #4
25% pro mix bx
2 cups worm castings
1 cup biotone plus
5 oz (not weight) OC+ mixed throughout
some concentrated dried humic acid with micros
some crushed oyster shells
then a top layer of coco to keep the peat dust down

I plan to have straight water in the res and periodically handwater with liquid karma and pureblend pro (after a few months) to keep it interesting and use up stuff that I plan to not replace. Any ideas as to the shelf life of pureblend pro products? Hopefully I can keep up the same growth rates as I got in coco and use less water (= less work!)

very simple method:

*perlyte, or coco, or 50/50 coco/perlyte

*1 tsp osmocote / 5 gal of coco/perlyte

*1 tsp humic acid

*no peat (sunshine or pro-mix)

*no worm castings

*no biotone

*no oyster shells

feed regime:

*1 tbsp (15grams) 5-12-26 (jax) + 1 tbsp (15g) cal-nitr8 + 5 gallons h20
*edit*
(npk-mg preferably mixed in different tanks & fed from separate from ca++)

*hand-water, @ 1X / day, until very little run-off. then stop. in 5 gal containers, 1 / 5 volume of container / 48hrs, max.

*5*128 = 640
*640 / 5 = 128
*128 / 2 = 64
*64 = 2 liters per day, max.

maybe start w/ only 1 liter (32 ounses) per day. should still be run-off. 1 1/2 - 2 liters when canopy reaches 3x3x3+.....

should be able to feed that same amount (ferts) thru the entire season :2cents:

mr noodles · Nov 24, 2010

overmyhead said:
Well, to cut down on mixing etc I switched out my moms (time to get new ones anyway) and am doing them in
5 gal smart pot type pots
75% sunshine mix #4
25% pro mix bx
2 cups worm castings
1 cup biotone plus
5 oz (not weight) OC+ mixed throughout
some concentrated dried humic acid with micros
some crushed oyster shells
then a top layer of coco to keep the peat dust down

I plan to have straight water in the res and periodically handwater with liquid karma and pureblend pro (after a few months) to keep it interesting and use up stuff that I plan to not replace. Any ideas as to the shelf life of pureblend pro products? Hopefully I can keep up the same growth rates as I got in coco and use less water (= less work!)

shelf life of pure blend pro depend on a lot of thing , the way the store keep is temperature is a factor key . i have a whole gallon that went bad on me less than 4 months after i open it .

i find out the store where it came got several hydro wheel crap on display and the temperature in the store is always over 35 and i was shocked last summer ...i wasn't barely able to stand in the store, it was a like a steam bath ...i was sweating bullet and my clothe where soaked in less than 10 minute ... so i find out that was a main thing to consider if the store is keeping a few 1000 w without ventilation ....they are not unique , too many store are the very fucking same =high temp all over

no wonder their nutes went bad .

thing was , my friend bough me the gallon from that store ...i found it came from that place....

now i note that too many hydro store got bad temp in their store ...nutes bottles in plain sun and at night they baked under hps ...

no wonder some nutes precipitate in the bottle only a few day after being opened ...

my gallon of pbp was gazing bad ...it was ridiculous after 3 months , it was like opening a pepsi bottle...the pffffffffttttttttt sound....plants went pretty bad too ...

using maxibloom now , 1 tsp and voila

dexter840 · Nov 25, 2010

this is a great thread, thanks carl. after fatman's chem refresher courses the 3 to 2 jack's to cal-nitrate is dead on for that 3-1-4 for sure and way easier than mixing all that shit myself. i didn't really want to buy another scale to measure that tiny amount of ammonium molybdate anywho

Lazyman · Nov 25, 2010

This is an egregious bookmark, and thanks for the research and links!

woolybear · Nov 25, 2010

Thanks carl for the thread and mistress for breaking down the info! Sweet!

YosemiteSam · Nov 27, 2010

Eight weeks and change..

I cut out the calcium nitrate after 6 weeks. That was a mistake. The leaves are yellowing out nicely and I know from experience it will lead to a very, very white ash but...the edges of those yellow leaves are a little on the crispy side and there ain't no way that is good for a plant...live and learn.

I will post some closer pics when I harvest so you can see crystal development...but I would be willing to put it against any hydro store nute, at least grown by me.

TRA1NWRECK · Nov 29, 2010

smoketrichs · Nov 29, 2010

Instead of the Potassium Silicate, could I add Diatomaceous Earth instead? I know that it's high in silica. and I've got tons of it already. Also how long can a mixed batch sit for? They're inert chemical compounds so I'm guessing indefinitely? Plan on mixing up 5 gallon bucket batches at a time for my upcoming hand watered coco grow. If the buckets are kept with a lid on in a cool dark dry place, will they be okay to use for a week at a time? thanks.

overmyhead · Nov 30, 2010

Thanks as always but my point here is to produce some babies without having to mix any nutes. They seem pretty happy so far, we'll see. My little ones in 12/12 with nothing but pro mix and osmocote are looking very frosty and healthy so maybe I should've just stuck with the oc+ and skip all the other stuff but you know what happens when you have a bunch of carp laying around!

*mistress* said:
very simple method:

*perlyte, or coco, or 50/50 coco/perlyte

*1 tsp osmocote / 5 gal of coco/perlyte

*1 tsp humic acid

*no peat (sunshine or pro-mix)

*no worm castings

*no biotone

*no oyster shells

feed regime:

*1 tbsp (15grams) 5-12-26 (jax) + 1 tbsp (15g) cal-nitr8 + 5 gallons h20
*edit*
(npk-mg preferably mixed in different tanks & fed from separate from ca++)

*hand-water, @ 1X / day, until very little run-off. then stop. in 5 gal containers, 1 / 5 volume of container / 48hrs, max.

*5*128 = 640
*640 / 5 = 128
*128 / 2 = 64
*64 = 2 liters per day, max.

maybe start w/ only 1 liter (32 ounses) per day. should still be run-off. 1 1/2 - 2 liters when canopy reaches 3x3x3+.....

should be able to feed that same amount (ferts) thru the entire season

jjfoo · Dec 10, 2010

I maybe totally wrong, but I don't see why there is a discussion about EC. The plant takes up a certain amount of salt per unit of time and the same goes for water. Why wouldn't you just aim to figure that out and give it what it needs?

For example, I have a DWC plant. The EC is say 1.8. Tomorrow there will be a little less nuts and water. If the EC goes up, the plant needed a bit more water, down and it needed more salt. I am to find where it become stable. Genetics, CO2 levels, lighting, and temp have a lot do with this.

I have noticed my EC must be much higher the day they go from the veg room to the flower room due to the lights (more of them, less crowding). If I don't change my nutes the EC will slowly start dropping. It may stop at some point, but from what I know the plant will need to expend energy and work to get the salts if the solution is too dilute.

I have heard the term 'steering EC' in greenhouse literature. That makes sense and seems scientifically the most sound.

Anyone disagree with this? If so please let me hear your side, maybe I'm just missing something.

My flower room takes a EC of 1.8 and I have no runoff ever. The water that collects in the wicking area is 1.3. I am trying to get it to go up, but don't want to make an over correction and cause damage. I will raise my EC slightly until I see that number climb. It should climb slowly. But it seems like right now they are consuming more salt than is in the water.

let me end my saying I am aware there are studies that make a case that the sweet spot is large, I'm just trying to find what is best for the plant, but it may be negligible.

Carl Carlson · Dec 10, 2010

jfoo i'm certain you meant to post that to the passive plant killer thread

jjfoo · Dec 11, 2010

I was replying to something from yosemite sam,but forgot to quote it... so it was out of context.

it was in response to this:

YosemiteSam said:
What i think, and others will no doubt disagree, is that burnt tips can be an overfert situation but probably not at 1.5. What is more likely is that your environmental conditions are, or are sometimes, such that the stomata on your plants do not stay open all of the time...which means that Ca has a hard time translocating in your plants causing the "burnt" tips.

I think this formula is good enough that you can run it anywhere from 1.2 to 1.8 with no bad effect. If there are issues with the plants I would start looking at improving the environment.

As to whether you can push the plants or not that is a tough one. I think you can definitely get more mass on the plants by pushing it a little. But I think (without definitive proof) that doing so could hurt your trichome production...so you might gain one way and lose a little another.

In your situation I would keep it between 1.5 and 1.8.

Hope that made some sense.

overmyhead · Dec 16, 2010

update on the straight osmocote plus and pro mix, looks like a Ca Deficiency. I will definitely hit with the tomato spray for wst couple weeks of flower or add Ca in water - I wonder if the Ca in the pro mix takes some time to really become available and there just isn't enough from the OC+ for those first crucial weeks.

On the peters, with no flush my buds tast amazingly smooth and ash is white but it seems to gunk up in the distribution drippers on my blumats : ( So, I'm trying lucas formula for now. but I really want to get to where it's straight water only so I might switch my beds to pro mix, OC+, epsom salt, maybe gypsum. Then just foliar any extra Ca.

woolybear · Dec 22, 2010

Hi OP, thanks for this thread. Trying out the Jack's + Calcinit; 1st feeding was yesterday, looking good so far!

I went with a lb of each, which totals around $18 with shipping. The shit is strong - 1 tablespoon of jacks/calcium nitrate in a 5-gal bucket gave be 2.0 ec, with ph buffered at 6.3ish.

Much prefer using dry nutes as opposed to wet! No more drawing nutes with syringes.

jjfoo · Dec 22, 2010

no more shipping costs for water, too

HighDesertJoe · Dec 23, 2010

Real nice tread Thank You..Back in the late 70's I used Osmacote and Peter's on my outdoor crops with AMAZING results. Getting back to growing (going to do a small Micro Grow for my brother who's in need of Meds) all these years later I'm glad to see I can still stay with the time tested basic's.

overmyhead · Jan 3, 2011

Carl Carlson said:
just be careful in combining a water soluble fertilizer with the OC+. Start with a low EC and work your way up if need be. It's easy to go overboard and burn when combining the two.

Well, they definitely had a little too much N but have worked it out quite nicely, I have two extra so I'm going to throw them into flower next week or two. My OC+ and pro mix only test crew have been in about 65 days now and except for some ca def are doing pretty well. Only thing I've added is some molasses and liquid karma. I have finally broken my ca def streak by hitting some clones with the greenlight blossom end rot spray (calcium chloride and sulfer) a couple times at the beginning of flower (they are 5 weeks in now and no brown spots) so I bet if I did that with the OC+ I'd have much better success next time. I promise I'll get a pic or two up here soon.

overmyhead · Jan 3, 2011

woolybear · Jan 3, 2011

Hi All, I'm running the Jacks' Pro Hydro during veg, working great. I've read a TON (the AN nutrients is great thread in particular) and I'm still wondering what I need to add/change for bloom when using Jack's Pro + Calcium Nitrate.

Jack's Bloom Booster 1-3-2? Bloom stimulant recommendation? Big Bud (AN) alternative? Floralicious plus? Koolbloom? Shit!

Or be like mod evlme2 in the KISS thread and use the same shit from veg to bloom? I like that answer, but don't mind splurging for a bloom enhancer.

edit: Use any bloom booster with an NPK of approx 0-50-30. monster bloom, AN bloom booster pro, Nutrilife's Nitro, Beastie blooms. Gonna get kool bloom.

YosemiteSam · Jan 3, 2011

woolybear...you do not need to add anything to the hydro special/CaNO3. It is complete as is. Check the pics I posted in this thread...no bloom boosters.

To be honest I like to foliar feed with brix mix and calcium 25 in veg. But those are the only additives I use and I use them because both produce noticable increases in brix (% sucrose) levels as measured by a refractometer. But it certainly isn't needed to produce most excellent weed.

By far and without a doubt, the least expensive conventional, synthetic fertilizers

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