old school breeders serving up total crap!!

Useful Idiot · Jul 27, 2012

Am I alone in thinking that things are not what they used to be??? I have been growing for quite some time,I also admit that making seed back in the day was not my thing. I would grow em out and cull the males. BIG MISTAKE ON MY PART!!! I have ordered many things now adays from the same breeders and just feel ripped off. The stuff seems watered down and totally not the same. I won't name names but a few have even stated that AFTER taking our $$$$$ that it was not the same as it used to be.And even apoligized for the "mixup"!! I am fortunate to have been gifted some REAL skunk seeds from an ol timer, but I still seem to place orders for skunk this and that from time to time. What the hell has happened to the skunk line??? No skunk at all!!! Skunk was NEVER SWEET!!! Other than the high.I personally think that all the breeders crossing this and that have actually ruined some really good strains. I honestly feel that the $$ is the new thing......not the quality of the flowers. Yeah there are some things that I have grown recently that are decent but I really miss the power of some older stuff that has been raped away so to speak.Am I alone in this thought???

gingerale · Jul 27, 2012

I think this is just a case of "things change", combined with the fact that MJ is illegal, which has made it difficult for some breeders to maintain lines especially those who have been busted. It's also likely that some older breeders are relying a bit too heavily on their past glories and the old names rather than coming out with new and interesting stuff. Today there is so much variety of seed out there, and probably a higher total amount of quality seeds, but I think you have to dig a lot more to find the good stuff. I think when it's legalized we'll see much more talent coming into the breeding game and progress coming in leaps and bounds, when people can fearlessly grow out huge fields of MJ and select from large numbers easily.

gingerale · Jul 27, 2012

The thing about plants is, they have such a short lifecycle that they evolve much faster than humans. Humans change just like plants do, but the space between generations is so long that we don't see it as clearly. It's not like apple trees where the same tree might grow and produce for generations; the plants are born and die in less than a year. On top of that cannabis naturally has way more variability than most plants, due to many reasons. Especially with selections from huge numbers it's all about the one special mom, and if a breeder loses that key plant then that strain will never be resurrected exactly the same again, I don't care how many times they inbreed or cross similar plants trying to get it back.

midwest · Jul 27, 2012

You should name names LOL

If I were looking for an old dutch skunk I would probably go with Sensi's Superskunk

KT420 · Jul 27, 2012

I do think a lot of older breeders are just coasting and relying on their name sake to carry them on, letting it roll as far as it will go. One that comes to mind is Paradise Seeds. Try Kalimans Cheese #1, directly from Kaliman, if you're looking for a good skunk. EDIT: Oh, and Sensi Seeds. Now there is a BIG name coasting...

idiit · Jul 27, 2012

get some golden tiger from ace sseds, destroyer from cannabiogen (cbg) or panama from either (joint project).edited to add: ace and cbg are separate seed co.'s and panama is a joint offering available from both sites.

and, or take some pure original haze genepool genetics and breed it into just about anything and you got the best weed on your block per the haze threads (substantiated claim by nevil, sam the skunkman, dubi and others).

i've run countless hyped up strains that did not meet my potency requirements ( especially the dreaded tolerance issue) the unadulterated best landrace genetics are the way to go imo.

Infinitesimal · Jul 27, 2012

A Quote By DJ Short

djzed said:
I’ve noted that beyond f6, certain specific traits may be bred for and further stabilized, but the plant begins to lose it’s unique ties to it’s ancestral heritage and begins to resemble another generation more phenotypic and acclimated to the relatively bland indoor grow environment. Herein lies the crux.

I think many of the big major dutch bank strains and especially the skunk strains are forward Line bred indoors for who knows how many generations... with out the natural environmental pressures that trigger genes into expression and selection of mother nature... they have turned into bland crap.

Mixing the genes still provides interesting combos and is the reason we do what we do, but those varieties that were originated and bred outdoors in cannabis sweet spots are difficult and not financially viable to maintain indoors and thus those strains have lost quality or don't exist.

thus the importance of breeders Like Ace, CBG, Chimera and DJ short, who work to maintain seed stock with minimal line breeding and outcrossing to bring us the most accurate representations of varieties lost to most of the world!

WelderDan · Jul 27, 2012

Cannabis is an annual plant, not a perennial. After so many years original clones loose vigor and eventually become essentially useless. Or drift occurs after so many years of inbreeding. Breeders have fought this but it is what it is. The plant will quickly adapt to a new environment and will change accordingly as well.

As for Skunk, the real deal Sam the Skunkman Skunk, he has stated that he purposely bred it to be sweeter, as he preferred the sweeter and more up buzz over the stinky raunchy, heavier Skunky Skunk. Again, it is what it is.

There is a lot more variety now than ever before. Lots of genetics are available now that I only wish i knew of years ago. The future is chucking your own pollen. It is for me anyway. I know what I like and I have a direction. Several directions actually, but I digress.

My point is that you can search for something you might remember, or you can try to create it, or at least something that is similar that comes close, or rivals it. Maybe even surpasses it.

izzywozzywizzy · Jul 27, 2012

Hi. Im Same .im from a time when there was 5 seed sellers now theres 5,000 .i think the populär ones are para that of they Do a couple of years work in a good strain some One will just come along and copy it maybe theyre keeping the real deal themselves and to a few select growers and giving joe public copys an honest breeder would be able to explain it.im going to use non famous small time family Run and hands on breders as some of them dont even tuoch the plants and pay a gardner to Do thebwork for them .thats how i think sensi went tits up .they were the best at One point.dronkers was the man took he out sourced his production.

ClosetAdvocate · Jul 27, 2012

This is probably the reason why Danny Danko recently said if you want to breed go back to the original landrace strains.

Hammerhead · Jul 27, 2012

I don't use SKUNK in any of my crosses. There stuff that's out there is not the skunk I'm use to until I find it again I wont use whats out there now.

Guest 315072 · Jul 27, 2012

i bought a pack of 10 kiwi seeds .. kiwi skunk.. and found 4 males and 6 females.. none hermied.. 4 were veryyyy veryyy the same looking.. and 2were insane looking with the densest and crystalliest buds.. so kiwi skunk i kept the 2 insane ones.. and numbered them 1 and 2 .. so anyways.. after stressing 1 and 2 out for about 3 months.. 1 month in veg and 2 months of flower out of 5 clones of each 1 and 2 .. only 1 of #2 hermied..

so i got rid of number 2 .. and now i have kiwi skunk #1 its a skunk selection not ment to be kiwi by anymeans.. i figure since this plant will not hermi by natural stresses. i would like to take some CS and get some pollen and make some fem seeds of this strain.. i love it..

if anyone has any idea what the lineage of this skunk is that would be great.. before i decide to use it for breedin purposes... !!!! kuz it is soo crystally .. and dense and smells nice and skunky but not too skunky.. but is potent as hell

Pinball Wizard · Jul 27, 2012

I tried saving these genetics from 2008. The Sourbubble was all males, the Grape Krush was all duds. The Nirvana Cali Orange Bud probably isn't that good of a strain?...but, it grows well.
Should have plenty of seeds for historical purposes...

moondawg · Jul 27, 2012

I agree to some extent useful Idiot.

I think there are 2 serious problems.

The first is that the genetics being used by many of the companies have deteriorated terribly. I grow outdoors and nearly anything comming from amsterdam or even Europe to some degree is pathetically weak in every way and can barely be grown outdoors. Every strain ive grown in the past 5 yrs(a bunch from breeders from MR.nice, Sensi, Paradise,etc) has had zero vigor and i mean NO hybrid vigor, they are one and all disease prone, weak stemed, bug attracting and finicky. Im not sure why, but its fact.

The 2nd issue is one that was exempliefied by interviews at CCCups, Spanabis and all. One interviewer after another asked,"Whats Barney (fill in the blank) got new comming out for 012?!!! There seems to be a lot of pressure to keep pumping out strain after strain, damn the quality..... is it new!?

I know a guy that breeds and he really takes a long damn time to develop one of his strains and stablize it. I dont know how you can have 25 strains and 20 of them be anything more than pollen chucking.

grownow · Jul 27, 2012

moondawg said:
I agree to some extent useful Idiot.

I think there are 2 serious problems.

The first is that the genetics being used by many of the companies have deteriorated terribly. I grow outdoors and nearly anything comming from amsterdam or even Europe to some degree is pathetically weak in every way and can barely be grown outdoors. Every strain ive grown in the past 5 yrs(a bunch from breeders from MR.nice, Sensi, Paradise,etc) has had zero vigor and i mean NO hybrid vigor, they are one and all disease prone, weak stemed, bug attracting and finicky. Im not sure why, but its fact.

serious seeds is from amsterdam, do you consider their genetics inferior to, lets say, caliconnection? what about mandala?

Ur Humbl Nr8tor · Jul 27, 2012

idiit said:
get some golden tiger from ace sseds, destroyer from cannabiogen (cbg) or panama from either (joint project).

and, or take some pure original haze genepool genetics and breed it into just about anything and you got the best weed on your block per the haze threads (substantiated claim by nevil, sam the skunkman, dubi and others).

i've run countless hyped up strains that did not meet my potency requirements ( especially the dreaded tolerance issue) the unadulterated best landrace genetics are the way to go imo.

Yep, Ace and CBG will ring the bell.

huligun · Jul 27, 2012

Most seed breeders really are hacks, no offense. I said most. People eventually get arrested and that usually kills the parent stock. Most seed breeders that I know have been arrested. Now the other thing is hype. Many creative writers, photographers, website owners conspire to hype up seeds to make a killing. In my opinion the best way to grow weed is from a known clone. It is not that hard to find fire and once you do you just need to strike a deal. It will save you a ton of wasted time trying to find a keeper in who knows how many packs of seeds. If you would spend xx on seeds to find a mother why not spend that amount or more for a clone that is already proven?

gingerale · Jul 27, 2012

^ Because not everyone is content with just running the same shit everyone else is.

Hammerhead · Jul 27, 2012

I love popping seeds. Its the only way to find the next keepers. I have a lot of fun looking for them. Usally they only stay with me when found. Im not growing to find plants that will make me money..

habeeb · Jul 27, 2012

I have to disagree. ( with the poster )

try cocoa kush from DJ, and you will see things are moving forward.

old school breeders serving up total crap!!

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